TV Licence Offence ILR dependent and Criminality Threshold

[Faith27]

Hi All,

I have been a silent reader of this forum. Its been very helpful in all the applications that I have made to the UKBA. Thanks to everybody .

We have a PEO appointment in Croydon on Feb 8th. The main applicant is my husband. We are not including our child in the application and will be registering her as a BC directly, hoping that we will get thru. Our visa expires in april 2014. The 5 year period is from 7th feb 2008.I have been with my family since june 2008.

Now, my situation is that I had received a bailiffs distress warrant in June 2012 stating the offence as Use of TV set without TV Licence and the warrant was for non payment of magistrates fine.

Since we moved houses, we did not receive any reminders etc. The offence was commited on 9 oct 2009 and there was a court hearing on 25th March 2010 it seems. I got these information after I called up the southwest London court . I was unaware of all these happenings.I panicked and I paid the court and bailiffs fine in full and closed the case the same day. We have always been paying for TV licence except for those couple of months and because of my ignorance. Now, is this a criminal conviction?If Yes, is it spent or unspent?

How is this going to affect our ILR. Will it be rejected for both of us or just me. I am having sleepless nights because of this issue. Please advice and suggest what I should do. Should I mention it in section 7.1?

Please note I work as a childcare nurse and have a clean enhanced CRB issued in May 2012. Also worked of ONS when I got a disclosure scotland in april 2011 which also came out clean.

Thank you. Looking forward to your replies.

KV

[Faith27]

I request the senior members and the gurus to please reply to my query.

Thanks in advance.

[wpilr_nov12]

Dependent ILR is issued only upon issuance of primary applicant's ILR.

If the TV License, warrant, court orders were not in your husband's name, then he would not have any problem.

[Faith27]

Thank you wpilr_nov12. I am relieved one way that its not going to affect my husbands ILR there by delaying my childs Naturalization.

I thought that both of our cases will be dealt together since they are applied through one single application.

Also, I have 2 types of CRB Certificates during consecutive years which do not show up any convictions( including spent/unspent) and nothing in police records. And on top of it I work in Childcare sector which is exempt from rehabilitation act.

Although, I have paid everything in full the very moment I got to know about it, do not have any receipts or proofs stating that I dont owe any fine. I only have a ref number given by the debt collectors when I paid them over the phone and got it reconfirmed from the court ( again over phone) that nothing is pending in my name in the court.

Keeping all this in mind, do you think I should mention it in section 7.1? I am unable to decide. Please advice.

Thank you for the help.

KV

[Faith27]

I am also thinking of disclosing it because I see in forums stating its a minor offence and also it happened in march 2010 which is close to 3 years from now. So, according to rule 322 1(c), this should not be a issue.

I am not sure if it was a criminal conviction at the first place. I had not received any summons to the court just a letter asking me to pay the fine, which I did.

I had not mentioned this in my extension application since I wasnt aware of this fine at that time.

I am really anxious and unable to decide on what is the right thing to do.

[Faith27]

seniors /gurus,

I see so many replies to posts with traffic offence conviction. But this TV Licence fine seems rare. Kindle help with your expert opinions.

Please advice.

[DrFixit]

Hi All,

I have been a silent reader of this forum. Its been very helpful in all the applications that I have made to the UKBA. Thanks to everybody .

We have a PEO appointment in Croydon on Feb 8th. The main applicant is my husband. We are not including our child in the application and will be registering her as a BC directly, hoping that we will get thru. Our visa expires in april 2014. The 5 year period is from 7th feb 2008.I have been with my family since june 2008.

Now, my situation is that I had received a bailiffs distress warrant in June 2012 stating the offence as Use of TV set without TV Licence and the warrant was for non payment of magistrates fine.

Since we moved houses, we did not receive any reminders etc. The offence was commited on 9 oct 2009 and there was a court hearing on 25th March 2010 it seems. I got these information after I called up the southwest London court . I was unaware of all these happenings.I panicked and I paid the court and bailiffs fine in full and closed the case the same day. We have always been paying for TV licence except for those couple of months and because of my ignorance. Now, is this a criminal conviction?If Yes, is it spent or unspent?

How is this going to affect our ILR. Will it be rejected for both of us or just me. I am having sleepless nights because of this issue. Please advice and suggest what I should do. Should I mention it in section 7.1?

Please note I work as a childcare nurse and have a clean enhanced CRB issued in May 2012. Also worked of ONS when I got a disclosure scotland in april 2011 which also came out clean.

Thank you. Looking forward to your replies.

KV

Hello Faith27,

I am going through a similar phase as you are. On 8th i have court hearing if i don't plead guilty by post. My ILR is due on September 2013. I am pretty much having sleepless nights as well.

You are probably safe i guess as under new immigration rule, you can apply for ILR after 24 months of conviction and your conviction was on 25th March 2010.

I am not sure about Baliffs though, but since they did not arrest you i don't think it is any thing, however, you still need to consult the solicitor before applying. In any case, i don't think your spouse visa will be rejected. I feel you are clean to go.

You can send me a PM and talk it through if you want. I am in process of finding good solicitor who can get me out of this situation and if you know of any please let me know.

[wpilr_nov12]

If you are not very confident of your situation, get another appointment without dependent, your husband gets ILR, child goes MN1 route, and you research your situation. Worst case you will have to extend your dep visa in Apr 2014.

[Faith27]

Hi wpilr_nov12,

Your reply has eased my tension.

This TV Licence is being considered as minor offence and non- recordable although its a criminal offence. Its not covered under criminal act, but communications act. Its being listed along with minor motoring offence.

I think, if driving convictions/ motoring court fines are being overlooked, then why not give it a try.

Also., its been 34 months since the fine was imposed, not on general refusal grounds.

On top of it, my Enhanced CRB taken in May 2012 is also clean, along with disclosure scotland taken in april 2011.

All these positive points are giving me hope.

If you see the Section J of PBS Dependant form. It asks for all convictions, where I had said ' No' when I applied in Feb 2012 for extension. Its the same question now in ILR with spent and unspent included. They would have done a criminal record check for dependant tier1 G ext applications too isnt it. I had not paid my fine then since i got this letter only in June 2012. But the conviction date was the same i.e march 2010.

Hence I came to a conclusion that it might not going to show up this time too ( its non -recordable).I am also hesitant about mentioning it cause I dont have proofs to show that I have paid it now. The letter doesnt show any dates. I phoned up and got to know the dates when the case was open.

Please give me your opinion on whether I should take this risk. If refused I would loose the money but will still be able to remain until my spouse visa expires isnt it?

If I dont apply now, I will have retake the new life in uk test . I need to look into whether I will have to go for set (O) or set (M) or FLR (M) and other procedures..

I feel there are 80% chances on positive outcome. Please advice. Sorry for the long explaination, I had to speak my mind out.

KV

[Faith27]

DrFixit ,

I was looking into your post before I posted. You dint seem to find a way out. So I posted my headache.
You still have time though. Also, according to the news coming up in spring about rehab period for fine to be changed from 5 to 1 year.

You might sail through, as I believe its a minor offence. Shall PM you. Please share your opinion. Just a week to go for me..

[wpilr_nov12]

Because I am not on your shoes, I could not tell you what you should do. You need to weigh your own position and make the decision.

On other bits, no you don't need to take LIUK again as long as you haven't lost the pass certificate.
Because you have completed your qualifying period as a dep you can apply for your own ILR as long as long as you have a valid dependent visa. And you could continue to extend that dependent visa in April 2014 (based on today's rules) if you haven't applied for ILR by then.

[Faith27]

Thanks wpilr_nov12.Will keep this as first choice, now that you have given me so much of clarity.

The ukba is known for so many changes which might work against you if delayed. Hence, the worry of delaying.

If at all my ILR is refused based on this offence, what will be the impact. Will it affect my current PBS dep visa or a later ILR application? Please advice because My child cannot travel out of UK until she gets her passport and I cannot leave her and go to my home country if there are complications.

Thanks.

[Gagan1986]

It is not a criminal offence, trust me. Just get on with it and apply. All the best

[Faith27]

Gagan1986,

Thanks for that confident answer,gives me great hope. Do you think I must disclose it in 7.1 or say No. Would it be counted as not disclosing material facts if I just say No?? Please advice.

[DrFixit]

DrFixit ,

I was looking into your post before I posted. You dint seem to find a way out. So I posted my headache.
You still have time though. Also, according to the news coming up in spring about rehab period for fine to be changed from 5 to 1 year.

You might sail through, as I believe its a minor offence. Shall PM you. Please share your opinion. Just a week to go for me..

I read through your replies and having seen replies from other forum members and all the research i have made in past few days, i feel you are safe to go. Under new law your TV fine is already spent, so all the best.

I am trying to contact a solicitor in Deal who has reportedly huge success for his previous TV Licence clients. Yea feel free to pm and we cans hare Tv Licence worries lol

[Faith27]

Hi Gagan1982,

I have sent you a PM. Have few questions . Please do reply.

Thanks.

[Faith27]

I found this in FAQ's of Good character requirement for Naturalisation .

I have a recent conviction for a minor offence. Should I still wait until the conviction has become spent before I apply for citizenship?

We will normally disregard a single conviction for a minor offence resulting in a bind over, conditional discharge or relatively small fine or compensation order, if a person is suitable for citizenship in all other respects. By 'minor offences' we mean speeding or other 'regulatory' offences.

Offences involving dishonesty (for example theft), violence or sexual offences are not classed as minor offences. Drink-driving offences, driving while uninsured or disqualified are also not minor offences.

Can somebody clarify if a tv licence offence is a minor one and will £160 pounds be considered a small fee?

Dr Fixit,

The New rules come to force only from mar/apr 2013. So , according to rehab rule fines take 5 years to become unspent. So, officially unspent, although hoping ,UKBA might not reject because it doesnt fall within 24 months.

Thanks

[DrFixit]

I found this in FAQ's of Good character requirement for Naturalisation .

I have a recent conviction for a minor offence. Should I still wait until the conviction has become spent before I apply for citizenship?

We will normally disregard a single conviction for a minor offence resulting in a bind over, conditional discharge or relatively small fine or compensation order, if a person is suitable for citizenship in all other respects. By 'minor offences' we mean speeding or other 'regulatory' offences.

Offences involving dishonesty (for example theft), violence or sexual offences are not classed as minor offences. Drink-driving offences, driving while uninsured or disqualified are also not minor offences.

Can somebody clarify if a tv licence offence is a minor one and will £160 pounds be considered a small fee?

Dr Fixit,

The New rules come to force only from mar/apr 2013. So , according to rehab rule fines take 5 years to become unspent. So, officially unspent, although hoping ,UKBA might not reject because it doesnt fall within 24 months.

Thanks

check this page for minor offences. im confused my self, does not seem like minor, but read through

[DrFixit]

DrFixit ,

I was looking into your post before I posted. You dint seem to find a way out. So I posted my headache.
You still have time though. Also, according to the news coming up in spring about rehab period for fine to be changed from 5 to 1 year.

You might sail through, as I believe its a minor offence. Shall PM you. Please share your opinion. Just a week to go for me..

any link to the information that rehab is going to change from 5 year to 1 year?

[DrFixit]

okay found several references about upcoming changes. Fines shall be considered spent after 1 year. But the law is expectedly coming in Spring this year, does any one has specific dates?

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... 9-viib.htm

Regards

[wpilr_nov12]

Or take a gamble. In the bigger scheme of things you only stand to lose the fee. Nothing else.

[Faith27]

DrFixit

I am with wpilr_nov12 , its the fee you are going to lose.
If I am you I would make sure that its not within the 24 months period. If the CW is going to refuse within general grounds of refusal, you cant help it, because of what is stated in (iv) 322 1(c)of Part 9 in immigration rules.

There have been Successful cases discussed here with spent and unspent conviction for drunken driving + court fines, driving without insurance/licence etc which are also considered criminal except FPN's. I feel you have more chances if its not within the 24 months.

My case will give you an idea , just wait for a week or 10 days and I will let you know my case. This is to only see if UKBA considers TV licence offence seriously, or if it disregards it as minor offence with small fine.

I think more than spent or unspent, you need to make sure that your conviction is not within 24 months from the date of your application according to the new rules.
Meanwhile. try and consult a immigration consultant.

KV

[Faith27]

Thank you everybody for the suggestions and support offered especially Gagan1986 and wpilr_nov12 .

Both me and my husband( main applicant) got our ILR approved.

The TV licence was not an issue . No questions were asked and I did not give any document like CRB to support the court fine.

Simply filled the section 7 with the offence as Use of TV without licence and sentence as fine.

My appointment was at 8.00 am for WP+ Tier1 G

went it at 8.00 am
security checked and let in to pay the fee.

8.30 case registration and after 20 mins biometrics given.

at 9.00 was called to submit documents. The CW dint ask anything simply took the application and all the documents that we wanted to submit and told she will call us once she is ready.
Called at 10.45 and. Showed a print out that had our biometric details and asked to check and sign.

Then gave the approval letter and documents, said bRP would arrive in 7-10 days.

These are the docs that we submitted

SET(O)
Passports+ Photos+BRP cards

12 months Bank statements
12 months Payslips
2 Life in the UK test document
Cohab - 2 years council tax
2 years water bills

Thats it. Am relieved.

Dr Fixit,

The court issued a fine in 2010 for me. I think the TV licence is a minor one and you should not worry about it. But, am not sure if they apply the 24 months rule here, since mine was not within that period.

[wpilr_nov12]

Congratulations . Sadly there is nothing on Telly worth the license fee. But hey. We now live in the land that has laws however arcane some of those may be.

[Gagan1986]

Congrats. Glad all went well