Help needed - Pakistan elderly relative already in the UK

Cricket2012 · Post by **Cricket2012** » Sun Jun 02, 2013 9:37 am

Hi,

My grandmother is over 80 years and recently she came to the UK on a six month visa. Since then my grandad has passed away. Now that he has passed away I do not want her to go back to Pakistan as she cannot look after herself and will not be able to manage without my granddad. She has go no relatives now in Pakistan but has lots of family in the UK. I have looked at the rules and she cannot look after herself and as she lives in a village in Pakistan there is no-one to look after her in Pakistan. 90% her relatives in were born and bred in the UK - the other 10% have got their British passports in the 1970s. Me and siblings all work and earn over 25k each and so financially it will not be an issue looking after my grandmother and we will not need public funds to do so

Having read about the rule change in July 2012 it appears difficult to get a elderly visitor permanent stay in the UK. However, when the six months off my grandmothers visa are up in two months I do not know what to do. I do not want her to go back to Pakistan as she has no-one there and am scared how she will survive. Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated

Post by **Amber** » Sun Jun 02, 2013 9:51 am

Cricket2012 wrote:Hi,

My grandmother is 81 years and recently she came to the UK on a six month visa to see grandchildren she had never seen before. Since then my grandad has passed away. Now that he has passed away I do not want her to go back to Pakistan as she cannot look after herself and will not be able to manage without my granddad. She has go no relatives now in Pakistan but has lots of family in the UK. I have looked at the rules and she cannot look after herself and as she lives in a village in Pakistan there is no-one to look after her in Pakistan. 90% her relatives in were born and bred in the UK - the other 10% have got their British passports in the 1970s. Me and siblings all work and earn over 25k each and so financially it will not be an issue looking after my grandmother and we will not need public funds to do so

Having read about the rule change in July 2012 it appears difficult to get a elderly visitor permanent stay in the UK. However, when the six months off my grandmothers visa are up in two months I do not know what to do. I do not want her to go back to Pakistan as she has no-one there and am scared how she will survive. Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated

She will have to go back and then apply from Pakistan for ILE if she satisfies the requirements as per http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas ... dependent/. The rules are quite strict now so you need to read them carefully and get proof to satisfy each one.

Cricket2012 · Post by **Cricket2012** » Sun Jun 02, 2013 9:57 am

thanks for your reply. if she had someone to look after her I would have no issues with her going back and waiting as long as it takes for her to get a visa. However, the fact that she is over 80 and has no-one to look after her - how can she go back. She cannot survive day-to-day without assistance and has no-one back home

Post by **Amber** » Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:00 am

Cricket2012 wrote:thanks for your reply. if she had someone to look after her I would have no issues with her going back and waiting as long as it takes for her to get a visa. However, the fact that she is over 80 and has no-one to look after her - how can she go back. She cannot survive day-to-day without assistance and has no-one back home

Well then if you can evidence that she should be able to apply for ILE when she return to Pakistan. Note you will have to say when she cannot get the care in Pakistan, that she needs daily personal care and that you can sponsor her.

Cricket2012 · Post by **Cricket2012** » Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:16 am

Thanks again for your advice. It looks like my grandmother will have to go back to Pakistan to apply - which in most cases makes sense. However, in this case my grandmother cannot do this as she has no-one in Pakistan. I think I will have to contact my local MP because the way things stand now there is no way my grandmother can go back. If she could go back there would be no need for me get her stay in the UK.

Ayyubi72 · Post by **Ayyubi72** » Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:58 pm

I am sure your have genuine concerns about your grandmother. But unfortunately an MP or a minister is not able to change immigration rules for one person.

I would say, contact a good immigration solicitor and take his advice. See if there could be any scope to make an application outside immigration rules on compassionate grounds.

MP can write a letter, but you will only get a standard reply from home office outlining the requirement according to immigration rules.

Post by **MPH80** » Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:35 pm

The thing you need to appreciate is how long you'll be looking at for an application outside the rules. We're talking months - if not a year - before you get a response, based on the current response times we're talking about.

During this time - your mother won't have any legitimate access to the NHS. If she has any problems that require hospitalisation - she'll need to fund the bill. You may, or may not, be chased for this depending how efficient your local NHS is at this sort of thing.

The other element that's been missed out of people's examples here is the requirement that you show why assistance isn't affordable for you to pay for in Pakistan. So you'll have to show why it isn't available (e.g. why can't someone travel from a nearby town? - not saying it's possible - just an example) ... and then show why it isn't affordable (e.g. quotations) ... but THEN show why you can afford to look after her for 5 years without recourse to public funds.

I agree that your best chance is to get a good solicitor and try for an application outside of the rules. But I suspect it'll take an application ... and an appeal of some sort before you'll get anywhere. Hard to imagine UKBA deporting her though ...

But the point remains - no leave to remain = no public healthcare = big bills.

M.

Cricket2012 · Post by **Cricket2012** » Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:28 am

Thanks for your advice. In terms of the finance question. If she was to go Pakistan she has no-one whatsoever. We have tried to find someone to look after her but cannot as she need someones looking after her 24/7 - she is elderly and very vulnerable. Where she is in Pakistan this is just not available. There is no such thing as a retirement home and those that come close are awful and just awful where the elderly live in astonishing conditions until they die. In the UK she has got a big family and taking care of her would not be an issue. The plain fact is that Pakistan is not a safe country and I would have concerns sending my grandmother their to live by herself without any support

Whilst I agree medical bills could run in thousands. The family would rather pay this then have her go back to Pakistan and live her last few years suffering alone. We are still hopeful that something can be sorted out so that she can go back to Pakistan as that would be the ideal outcome. I am just looking at what options we have if we are not able to sort something out

Post by **MPH80** » Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:57 am

You'll need to show that it's not available to the UKBA. It's hard to believe (from my perspective) that it wouldn't be possible to hire a 27/4 live in care.

The next question then is affordability!

So you mustn't dismiss any options before you investigate them - you need to check and get a price.

There is the obvious option that a member of the family return with her to Pakistan for the duration of the application.

M.

Ayyubi72 · Post by **Ayyubi72** » Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:07 am

Another point I would like to put across.

Since the new rules have come into effect, only one parent (or grandparent) dependent visa has been issued. Yes, just one.

The rules are quite demanding now.

If someone travel with her, then that person must be a British Citizen, and must stay in Pakistan until your grans visa is granted.

If she is left behind, then UKBA will arrive at the conclusion that there is someone back in pakistan who can look after her, and she is not dependent on you for her day to day care, and hence she is not eligible for visa.

Post by **Amber** » Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:23 am

Ayyubi72 wrote:Another point I would like to put across.

Since the new rules have come into effect, only one parent (or grandparent) dependent visa has been issued. Yes, just one.
The rules are quite demanding now.

If someone travel with her, then that person must be a British Citizen, and must stay in Pakistan until your grans visa is granted.

If she is left behind, then UKBA will arrive at the conclusion that there is someone back in pakistan who can look after her, and she is not dependent on you for her day to day care, and hence she is not eligible for visa.

How do you know this?

Ayyubi72 · Post by **Ayyubi72** » Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:37 am

freemovement blog referring to foi request.

And I wonder how come even one person qualified. Looking at the rules, it seems no one could ever qualify.

Post by **Amber** » Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:43 am

Ayyubi72 wrote:freemovement blog referring to foi request.

And I wonder how come even one person qualified. Looking at the rules, it seems no one could ever qualify.

I did hear that between 9 July - 31 October 2012 just one visa was issued worldwide to an adult dependent relative. However, we are now in June so would be interesting to see if it has increased much.

Lord Avebury put it very well when he said that "I believe that the rule has been designed to prevent any elderly parents being able to join their children here, although every other country in Europe allows it". [Lord Avebury, Official Report 23 Oct 2012 : Column 189].

15Jan · Post by **15Jan** » Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:10 pm

We need to get together and fight these draconian rules, they make no sense and it's unfair to leave the Parents/Grandparents when they need us most.

Anyone up for the fight and remember this will be a long one.

deleted_user · Post by **deleted_user** » Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:57 pm

Please join the fight.

Ayyubi72 · Post by **Ayyubi72** » Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:13 pm

As I have said in my other posts on the forum, immigrants are lazy and selfish bunch. They are not interested in any kind of fight. All they want is just their job done. As soon as this happens, they don't care about anyone else.

They do not even bother signing relevant e petitions, that could at least spark a debate.

This is never going to change.

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Help needed - Pakistan elderly relative already in the UK

Help needed - Pakistan elderly relative already in the UK

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