EU Treaty application turned down. What next?

[tokyomonkey]

Hello everyone. I'm hoping some kind person can maybe give me some advice. I'm Scottish and I arrived in Dublin with my then fiance (South Korean) back in late 2006. We married in 2007 and as I was working we were able to apply for Eu treaty rights. My wifes's card will expire this year, so we applied for another 5 years, however I took voluntary redundancy in 2008 and haven't been able to find work since, so we were turned down. My wife is working part time however a full time position has been offered to her to start next month. Will she be eligible for naturalisation, and bearing in mind the length of time the application takes, can she extend her stay here while it's being processed? Many thanks for any replies. We're quite worried now.

[jeupsy]

Maybe a way to ease the pressure is for you to become a full time student? It would make you guys elligible for an EUTR application again and give you time to figure out a longer term solution.

With regards to citiznship, I am not sure how the time spent on EUFAM cont and if you need to be working.

[tokyomonkey]

Just been reading through the letter we received, and it appears that since I took voluntary redundancy, our EU treaty rights are invalidated, so they could kick my wife out any time unless I can prove I was somehow eligible since 2009.

[jeupsy]

Yes the right of residence is based on the fact that the EU citizen is either employed, self-employed, or a student. As soon as this stops in theory the right of residence is invalidated even though the residance card is not expired (though I am not sure if in practice anyone has ever been taken away from Ireland based on this scenario).

You can find more information about your rights under EUTR here:
http://europa.eu/legislation_summaries/ ... 152_en.htm

Maybe one interestig point is this:

•either be engaged in economic activity (on an employed or self-employed basis);
•or have sufficient resources and sickness insurance to ensure that they do not become a burden on the social services of the host Member State during their stay. The Member States may not specify a minimum amount which they deem sufficient, but they must take account of personal circumstances;
•or be following vocational training as a student and have sufficient resources and sickness insurance to ensure that they do not become a burden on the social services of the host Member State during their stay;
•or be a family member of a Union citizen who falls into one of the above categories.

I am not totally sure but you can possibly argue that if your wife is employed full time it would give you guys enough ressources not to become a burden; and therefore you would still qualify for EUTR. Maybe it is worth emailing he EUTR section at INIS to ask them.

Otherwise I think you have to either enroll in a course or start employement.

[El shaddai]

They cannot kick your wife out of Ireland as long as you are still resident.
You need to look for a competent lawyer for an advice on what to do.
Did you make any appeal against the decision at all?

[tokyomonkey]

Haven't appealed yet. I think it's probably best that I step up my efforts to find job, although at 52 years old and in the current economy, it's easier said than done.

[archigabe]

You would need to prove that you have been resident on a self sufficient status, ie.had private health insurance since the time you were unemployed

[tokyomonkey]

You would need to prove that you have been resident on a self sufficient status, ie.had private health insurance since the time you were unemployed

That's the problem. Don't have any of that. I'm currently trying to find any job, however the letter we received required that I prove our eligibility for Eu Treaty rights from when I took redundancy (2009), which I can't do, since I've been claiming benefit. Can they really deport my wife?

[archigabe]

I would suggest reaching out some immigration solicitors like Brophy Solicitors in Parliament St. in Dublin.

[Brigid from Ireland]

Do you have any Irish citizen children? If yes, your wife can apply on the basis of being the mother of an Irish citizen child.

Are you on benefit or assistance? Is it unemployment or illness based? Can you switch to the form of benefit/assistance that is available to those who are self employed with low earnings? This basically is for people who are currently unemployed, want to start a business but need social welfare at the beginning as the business is not yet profitable. If you can do this you become a self employed worker (who is also getting a benefit available to those who became unemployed) and self employed workers have EU treaty rights.

If you are on the illness payments for the past few years your case is stronger, particularly given your age, as EU migrant workers who become ill and unable to work have a case to say that they retain EU worker rights. So if you are on unemployment payments could you switch to illness payments, if self employment is not an option?

You can't do much about not have a job/health insurance in the past, but can try to change this for the future.

[tokyomonkey]

Do you have any Irish citizen children? If yes, your wife can apply on the basis of being the mother of an Irish citizen child.

Are you on benefit or assistance? Is it unemployment or illness based? Can you switch to the form of benefit/assistance that is available to those who are self employed with low earnings? This basically is for people who are currently unemployed, want to start a business but need social welfare at the beginning as the business is not yet profitable. If you can do this you become a self employed worker (who is also getting a benefit available to those who became unemployed) and self employed workers have EU treaty rights.

If you are on the illness payments for the past few years your case is stronger, particularly given your age, as EU migrant workers who become ill and unable to work have a case to say that they retain EU worker rights. So if you are on unemployment payments could you switch to illness payments, if self employment is not an option?

You can't do much about not have a job/health insurance in the past, but can try to change this for the future.

Hi Brigid, thanks for the advice! We don't have any children, so that isn't an option, however just before we received the letter from immigration turning down our Eu Treaty application, I'd been in the process of setting myself up as self-employed - I'm an artist and was hoping to be able to make a living off my illustration work. As you said, there's a scheme where you retain your Dole money for 1 year, but are taken off the live register, however I just assumed that Immigration would look on this the same as claiming welfare and still refuse us. I'll look into this further though. Thanks again for taking the trouble to respond

[Latintraveller]

Brigid from Ireland wrote:
Do you have any Irish citizen children? If yes, your wife can apply on the basis of being the mother of an Irish citizen child.

Are you on benefit or assistance? Is it unemployment or illness based? Can you switch to the form of benefit/assistance that is available to those who are self employed with low earnings? This basically is for people who are currently unemployed, want to start a business but need social welfare at the beginning as the business is not yet profitable. If you can do this you become a self employed worker (who is also getting a benefit available to those who became unemployed) and self employed workers have EU treaty rights.

If you are on the illness payments for the past few years your case is stronger, particularly given your age, as EU migrant workers who become ill and unable to work have a case to say that they retain EU worker rights. So if you are on unemployment payments could you switch to illness payments, if self employment is not an option?

You can't do much about not have a job/health insurance in the past, but can try to change this for the future.


Hi Brigid, thanks for the advice! We don't have any children, so that isn't an option, however just before we received the letter from immigration turning down our Eu Treaty application, I'd been in the process of setting myself up as self-employed - I'm an artist and was hoping to be able to make a living off my illustration work. As you said, there's a scheme where you retain your Dole money for 1 year, but are taken off the live register, however I just assumed that Immigration would look on this the same as claiming welfare and still refuse us. I'll look into this further though. Thanks again for taking the trouble to respond

Isn't the help given to newly self-employed people a form of JSA? Normally they give JSA with say a €50 a week disregard. Are there other schemes out there which do not include the words "Job Seekers Allowance" which may have to be declared in the EU2 form?

[euspouse07]

Hello everyone. I'm hoping some kind person can maybe give me some advice. I'm Scottish and I arrived in Dublin with my then fiance (South Korean) back in late 2006. We married in 2007 and as I was working we were able to apply for Eu treaty rights. My wifes's card will expire this year, so we applied for another 5 years, however I took voluntary redundancy in 2008 and haven't been able to find work since, so we were turned down. My wife is working part time however a full time position has been offered to her to start next month. Will she be eligible for naturalization, and bearing in mind the length of time the application takes, can she extend her stay here while it's being processed? Many thanks for any replies. We're quite worried now.

Assuming that you are on job seeker allowance; your wife can still make application on Eu1 form for 5 year residence card.They have no reason to to turn down this application. JSA is very vague term and they would surely find hard to turn it down.Alternatively you can register your self as self employed and make the application on EU1 for 5 year residence card.I would suggest you not to chase for permanent card as in the light of your scenario it wont be a good idea.
In relation to naturalization if your spouse permission is still valid and she has clocked 60 months residence period ;i would advised you to make application without any delay .In other words you can make both application simultaneously.

[Brigid from Ireland]

It is a form of JA.

BUT if her husband is a self employed worker this may grant them additional rights - it becomes more difficult to refuse her if he works.

[tokyomonkey]

Hi again. Just an update to this, as we received a letter today turning down our EU3 application and a notice that,as her visa has now expired, she has 15 days to lodge an appeal. Thing is, I'm just in the process of registering myself as self employed (as part of the goverment Business start up scheme). We went down to the immigration office last month and they advised us to go for the EU1, however now that my wife is sort of illegal, seeing as how her residence card has expired, can she still make an application for EU1 or is the only recourse open to her to appeal the EU3?
The letter also states that in 15 days her case will be referred to the Removals and repatriation unit.

Also, what sort of money does an immigration lawyer charge, as we don't really have that much spare cash? Thanks for any help!

[357mag]

I think under EU rule someone who is unemployed but looking for work is still classed as a "worker"

http://eumovement.wordpress.com/directive-200438ec/

[Latintraveller]

The problem is that the directive states that you have to be Involuntarily Unemployed to retain the status of a worker.

Seems like a good idea to try the self-employment and appeal routes.