Need help with citizenship application with shoplifting

[itsravi]

Hi,

My wife has been accused of shoplifting 2 months back. It was unfortunate incident as we had baby roughly 7 months back, when my wife went shopping with the baby, she took some items for purchase, but the baby started crying and became very cranky, so she decided to feed her outside, without realizing that she has these items, moment she went out, she was asked the security guard to come with him and took her to the room, where she was told that she is stealing the items. When she mentioned everything to them, security guards and staff at the store didn't call the police, but asked her to sign a letter from RLP(Retail Loss Prevention), which is to collect the fine towards the time spent by staff in the store. This is called Civil Recovery. Here is link to the RLP site http://www.lossprevention.co.uk

In few days, we got the letter to pay the fine, which we did immediately, even though there was option to dispute it, but we didn't take it as we feared the worst in case the fine is contested in court and when you lose, it is marked as criminal offence.

Now we have to apply for British Nationality, there is one question about civil penalty(question 3.8 ). We are not sure whether this constitutes as civil penalty as there was no police or any other government organisation involved.

We are in 2 minds: a) declare it in that section or don't declare it there, but give details in the page 13(additional details), but afraid that it might go against us and they might reject it. b) don't declare it, but afraid that if UKBA come to know about it, they would think we are hiding the details.

We have seen some forums http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/fo ... llegations, where most of people says RLP does not stand in law and should be ignored, but would like to know your views on it.

Please advise.

[jmoha]

your case doesn't involve any legal process nor a court order so don't worry on it. But in all cases it's better you mention in the application rather than hiding the fact and repenting later.

[itsravi]

can I request some senior members or gurus to look at my situation and suggest please. You guys are very versed with all the rules and regulations and your input is well appreciated.

[VR]

Just as a matter of Integrity mention this in the additional information not covered in other sections.

Absolutely no issues.
Good luck
vr

[rod_p]

RLP has no records that can be accessed by UKBA - I absolutely would not mention this on your wife's application.

I've had no experience with this organization but they seem to be little different than the dozens of scam companies that do private parking control. In this example, the company decided to steal back goods that had already been paid for:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/fo ... Prevention

Companies that operate in such a dodgy way and also use the term "fine" or "penalty" when they are in no legal position to hand out a fine or penalty make it difficult to understand why no legislation exists to deal with them.

[Amber]

For the purpose of nationality a civil penalty is limited to those under immigration legislation. Civil judgements at a court of law also need to be included but not 'civil penalties' from shops. If you don't pay they may be able to start small claims court action. Pop into your local CAB for further information.

[itsravi]

For the purpose of nationality a civil penalty is limited to those under immigration legislation. Civil judgements at a court of law also need to be included but not 'civil penalties' from shops. If you don't pay they may be able to start small claims court action. Pop into your local CAB for further information.

Thanks for looking into it. As I mentioned we already paid the amount immediately, to avoid any court proceedings. In that case, would you suggest to mention it or not? Also can you please elaborate about CAB, what is CAB and what I need to ask for?

Thanks Again,

[itsravi]

can I request some moderators to please look at my query and suggest their views? I can tell you that my wife is of good character, what I am saying is really genuine story, there is nothing wrong in my story.

[Amber]

You don't need to mention it.

[Casa]

Amber has given you good advice.

[Casa]

Amber has given you good advice.

[itsravi]

Amber has given you good advice.

Thanks for looking. Are you saying we should not mention this in the form at all? Please confirm.

Does RLP doesn't have any say in this? is it not civil penalty? will it not come up in their investigation? This is what we are worried of most.

[itsravi]

please look at our situation and advise. Would appreciate your help.

[neoseal]

I don't think there is need to mention it. Its not formal police complaint, nor court is involved. Its just another money extortion trick, just like parking fines.
If you are really worried get ACPO certificate to see it its registered. No way it would be.

http://www.acro.police.uk/police_certificates.aspx

[itsravi]

I understand this was not an criminal offence, but was it a civil penalty? Is there a way to find out if the civil penalty is registered with police. Reason for this is because on this page of RLP, http://www.lossprevention.co.uk/history.aspx, they say "RLP also assist crime partnerships and the police in sharing information in accordance with the Data protection Act (DPA) for the detection and prevention of crime.". This is what is worrying me.

[Amber]

You need to forget it.

[itsravi]

You need to forget it.

Thanks Amber.

[itsravi]

Hi Guys,

I am applying tomorrow via NCS, since I couldn't get any earlier appointment. I happen to meet someone from CBA today, as suggested here earlier, he said that he don't think it is civil penalty as you guys also mentioned, but he wasn't sure about whether RLP shares the information with the police, so he was suggesting that I should mention it in extra section. I am quite concerned that if I do mention it, UKBA does not hold against me.

Please advise, I really need your help in terms of how you decided that I should not mention it. I don't want to be nuisance here, but trust me, it is this confusion that is driving me to think in all directions and would need help from any of gurus & moderators.

[royh]

You can check whether or not it's listed on your record by requesting a SAR from the Police. Here is my situation.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... ht=#925473

^ if it's not on their computers which the Home Office will check than I don't see how they refuse your application, but I am not 100% sure. It's probably too late though because you're seeing/seen the NCS soon.

[itsravi]

You can check whether or not it's listed on your record by requesting a SAR from the Police. Here is my situation.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... ht=#925473

^ if it's not on their computers which the Home Office will check than I don't see how they refuse your application, but I am not 100% sure. It's probably too late though because you're seeing/seen the NCS soon.

Thanks for replying but it is too late now to request for SAR, because it takes 4 weeks for them to reply and I am applying tomorrow.

Seniors, please help.

[Amber]

You need to forget it.

[itsravi]

You need to forget it.

Amber,

I know you mentioned it many times, please suggest how this, give some more information about it. How you conclude about it? We are here with 2 kids, I don't want my wife to be prosecuted or sent back, because UKBA thinks she withheld the information to disguise them.

I hope you understand my situation.

Can I ask for more thing, if it does turn out that I don't mention it and HO finds it, what kind of action, they can take? Will they send back my wife? Or will she be prosecuted? Which means can't apply for citizenship for long time? Please advise.

Regards,
itsravi

[Amber]

Because it's a civil matter and as it's not a CCJ or immigration penalty I don't think it needs to be mentioned.

[itsravi]

Ok thanks again. One more clarification please, its not a caution as well? I am using new form, which queries caution as well, in question 3.10?

[Amber]

No.