Channel Islander or Manxman? Loophole!

[Ben]

Also note that according to the explanatory memorandum, the reason for the change is McCarthy and not Zambrano

7.10 Paragraph 7 of the Schedule to the Regulations amends the reference in the 2006 Regulations to "UK nationals" so that they refer instead to "British citizens". An amendment was made to the EEA Regulations in July 2012 to implement the ECJ's judgment in the case of McCarthy (C-434/09) in order to make clear that dual nationals are not normally able to exercise free movement rights in the countries of their citizenship. In the process of drafting guidance on these changes it became clear that this amendment- and the 2006 Regulations in general- should refer to "British citizens" rather than to "UK nationals" since only the former have the right of abode in the UK.

Good catch, Jambo.

[Obie]

You are clearly been offensive. There is no reason to be.

You opened a thread to discuss a topic. I missed a part of it, which is not quite material.

The definition of United Kingdom national has been deleted in Regulation 2(1), but it was stated that it should be substituted with British Citizen.

Therefore Regulation 2(1), will read, as a British Citizens is someone who fall to be treated as a British Citizen for the purpose of the community Treaties.

People in the Isle of Man or Channel Island, are not covered by the community treaties, therefore how can they fall to be treated as a British Citizen for the Purpose of the Community Treaties.

This is a legitimate debate topic, and one which need to be probed, and ideas from different people welcomed and if necessary corrected in a civil manner. We are not in war on the forum, this is an harmonised environment. I am not trolling, i am putting a legitimate concern, as the UK national provision is intended to give effect to Directive 2004/38EC, if you open a debate on this issue, everyone should be entitled to chip in.

According to Jambo post, which explains a bit more, there is no reason to read the changes, to means the EEA regulation is seeking to award right to British Citizens, beyond those with EU Citizenship status.

[Ben]

The definition of United Kingdom national has been deleted in Regulation 2(1), but it was stated that it should be substituted with British Citizen.

Therefore Regulation 2(1), will read, as a British Citizens is someone who fall to be treated as a British Citizen for the purpose of the community Treaties.

People in the Isle of Man or Channel Island, are not covered by the community treaties, therefore how can they fall to be treated as a British Citizen for the Purpose of the Community Treaties.

Do you still believe what you've written above to be true?

[Obie]

Well it say for reference to United Kingdom national in Regulation 2(1) substitute British Citizen.

This essentially means there is no longer a definition for UK national in Regulation 2(1) but the area were we previously had United Kingdom national should be substituted with British Citizen.

Except if you are suggesting that British citizen should be substituted in Regulation 2(1) without any definition.

Regulation 2(1) is a definition Regulation. If British Citizen is to be in that Regulation, then its meaning should be the same as UK national.

If you are convinced that there are other definition for British Citizen that is different from the previous United Kingdom national, in Regulation 2(1), kindly find it for me and i will post no further replies.

If there is not, then the status quo remains.

[Ben]

Ok, perhaps I'm insane, but this is my last attempt..

References to “United Kingdom national”

7.—(1) In regulation 2(1) delete the definition of “United Kingdom national”.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2012/2560/made

What do you understand that to mean?

[Obie]

Well if you look carefully, there are two parts to paragraph 7. You have only cited one.

What it means is that the definition for UK national has to be deleted as there is nothing as UK national.

And paragraph 2 it states that references to United Kingdom national in Regulation 2(1) should be substituted with British Citizen.

This means that there is no longer a definition for UK national as it has cease to exist, but the reference to UK national in the definition is replaced with British citizen.

This means British Citizen has the same meaning as its predecessor.

Despite the argument and insult and oversight on my part, i feel this issue has been finally resolved. The purpose of the change was not to grant a broader scope, but rather a technical change to give effect to the fact that only British Citizen has right of abode.
However for the purpose of the regulation, the purpose and meaning remains the same.

Regulation 2 (1) is a definition regulation. If British Citizen is to be there, there has to be a definition. If you find me a new definition then i will rest.

You cannot put British Citizen in Regulation 2 without defining it.

I am not saying that Channel Islander are not British Citizen. They are indeed. All i said is for the purpose of the EEA regulation, they are not.

[Ben]

I give up. No more energy.

[Obie]

Well it is a shame you gave up. Subparagraph 2 0f paragraph 7 states that for the purpose of Regulation 2, United Kingdom Nationals should be substituted with British Citizen. I have asked you what this mean, and if British Citizen should be in Regulation 2 , what the meaning should be, and you have failed to answer.

In fact you said British Citizen should not be in Regulation 2 which is in contrast with the wording of Subparagraph 2 of paragraph which clearly state that references to UK national should be substituted with British Citizen.

It is unfortunate that you have not been able to clear this out for everyone.

The regulation says that definition of UK national should be deleted and rightly so, as UK national is not a term, therefore it has no definition.

However references to it remains, and it is now used for British Citizen instead.