ilr for visitor overstayer (6 years)

[thirdwave]

The way I see it, the government better be prepared to spend a lot of money or grant amnesty to overstayers presently in the country.

The only way to exercise this rule effectively is by removing every caught illegal immigrant which of course would be very expensive or granting them an amnesty but use the new changes to deter prospective immigrants who see the UK as a soft touch for breaking the rules.

Why does it need to be expensive? The first step was supposed to be the introduction of ID cards. Once that's done, they can use the french system (and many other countries) of requiring everybody to carry their ID cards at all times. It's then a simple matter of police asking for ID and the "without papers" are shipped off to the detention centres.

Paul, the ID card scheme is flawed as only foreign nationals would be required to carry them in the first instance. How do you think the police can tell whether someone is an illegal immigrant or a British national?

[Mr Rusty]

Is it really? Deportation as far as i'm aware usually takes where the immigrant had committed a grievous offence. In her case, if she's caught, she'll be removed for overstaying and probably at public expense which would only carry 5 year ban and she might have to repay the expense when the ban is lifted.

Removal is the word, not deportation.

Are you sure that only those who have committed an offence, let alone a grievous offence, are deported? Haven't you heard of illegal immigrants being rounded up and send to the detention centres, pending deportation?

I've heard of illegal immigrants being rounded up and removed (maybe deportation on a case by case basis).

Maybe you need to explain the differences between administrative removal and deportation to me, please.

Deportation - Removal of someone who has been served with a Deportation Order, signed by the Home Secretary, the Immigration Minister (or these days by Lin Homer, Chief Executive of the BIA as well). Somebody may be recommended for deportation by a judge, following conviction and sentence, or will be considered for deportation by the BIA if they receive a prison sentence of one year or more (2 years in the case of EEA nationals).

Administrative removal - an illegal entrant, overstayer or worker-in- breach is served with a notice by an immigration officer (or these days it can be a caseworker on behalf of the Secretary of State) - the notice is usually form IS151A. They then become subject to Removal Directions and liable to be detained, although they may be granted Temporary Admission/Release if it's not possible to remove them within a short period of time.

But my reading of the new proposals is that anyone who is leaves the UK following service of a 151A will be subject to the same 10-year penalty as a deportee, because they are subject to Removal Directions. The only way to attract a lesser penalty is to leave before the law catches up with you

[paulp]

But my reading of the new proposals is that anyone who is leaves the UK following service of a 151A will be subject to the same 10-year penalty as a deportee, because they are subject to Removal Directions. The only way to attract a lesser penalty is to leave before the law catches up with you

Hence, why there is the incentive of only a one-year ban for people who leave at their own expense, compared to 5 and 10-years. But that one year should not be taken as the defacto ban for overstayers.

[paulp]

Paul, the ID card scheme is flawed as only foreign nationals would be required to carry them in the first instance. How do you think the police can tell whether someone is an illegal immigrant or a British national?

That's right, the ID card scheme is flawed here in the UK but if the government can get sufficient support from the public, it may be extended to everybody. There is no fundamental reason why they can't as it has been successfully introduced in France and many other countries.

[paulp]

It would be expensive because a lot of the caught immigrants will be removed at public expense. Not only at removal but whilst they are in detention, they will be clothed and fed...i'm sure you're aware of that. Where does that money come from? From people like you (tax payers).

Sure, it costs money to run the detention centres, but it's not so expensive that it can't be done. In the age of ryanair and easyjet, the cost of the air fare isn't that prohibitive.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti illegals as such. But there are so many people who casually and wilfully become illegal, thinking that the home office doesn't care/too inept to catch them/insert reason here.

[sunny9675]

but this is very wrong for personal benefits or ambitions or situation applicants bring uncertianity in lfe of parents

food and shelter s not only item a person need for that why we burden state

state should confiscate house where such illegal persons are kept and used for taking care of grand chldren.

the current person may not be doing this but those for sake of residency make parents illegal may abuse their this situation for thieir benefits

BIA should amke aanote of it and we should not provide solution for illegals

moral support is fine but a self respected person will always ready for less than comforts of UK life .

Regards

[amserve]

look before my post was hijacked by some bigoted agenda-driven morons, I asked a reasonable question which seems unanswerable by the majority of the repliers. get off your high horses and smell the coffee! An elderly lady cannot go back in this situation, she has no place to go back to all her family is settled (paying taxes and all) in the uk and she has spent 7 years in the uk WITHOUT any state assistance.

I didnt realise this was the wannabe-politican board!

[sakura]

look before my post was hijacked by some bigoted agenda-driven morons, I asked a reasonable question which seems unanswerable by the majority of the repliers. get off your high horses and smell the coffee! An elderly lady cannot go back in this situation, she has no place to go back to all her family is settled (paying taxes and all) in the uk and she has spent 7 years in the uk WITHOUT any state assistance.

I didnt realise this was the wannabe-politican board!

Sorry that you feel no one has answered you appropriately. Try reading through these posts (and their links):

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=23254
and
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=23295
Vinny's links on this topic are particularly good http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=23299

As you can see, trying to bring over a parent or parents from abroad is hard enough. Your aunt has some things against her;

1. She is still quite young - at 52 she can still work if given leave (if she is fit and able). She therefore wouldn't be dependent on her children, and it might be viewed as economic migration (after all, the retirement age here is 65, so she has a good 13 years of work-life left!). She isn't old enough to meet the requirement so it would be one based on exceptional compassionate circumstances.
2. She has overstayed her visa. Whether or not she has worked or used state benefits is irrelevant (although will work in her favour). I do not know if it is possible for her to apply in-country anyway.

I suggest you seek advice - conact Citizen's Advice Bureau (CAB) or any other free (legally registered) immigration advice. Then, following their advice (if you agree), contact an OISC registered solicitor. An in-country application, with her immigration background AND her relatively young age might be a challenge. Bearing in mind that the rules are getting tougher, not easier, for undocumented migrants.

Has she worked since being her? Does she have any physical or mental disabilities?

[Wanderer]

look before my post was hijacked by some bigoted agenda-driven morons, I asked a reasonable question which seems unanswerable by the majority of the repliers. get off your high horses and smell the coffee! An elderly lady cannot go back in this situation, she has no place to go back to all her family is settled (paying taxes and all) in the uk and she has spent 7 years in the uk WITHOUT any state assistance.

I didnt realise this was the wannabe-politican board! 8)

Elderly! at 52! Christ I'm 47, only 5 years to go to old age.....

I'm afraid no amount of bleating will change the facts, she's illegal, will have to return home or face deportation - there is no other way.

If deported she'll have a ten year ban in which any visa will be denied.

So, what is the way forward? Well, there isn't one IMHO, she's buggered up her chances of any visa to the UK for the foreseeable by her overstay, the HO is exhibit NO leniency in this case, her only chance is like others have said, 14 years legal/illegal stay. But I wouldn't bet on that concession being around in the next 12 months given the high profile illegal immigration has.

Sometimes there is no choice, no way to get what you want. Accept it.

[paulp]

look before my post was hijacked by some bigoted agenda-driven morons, I asked a reasonable question which seems unanswerable by the majority of the repliers. get off your high horses and smell the coffee! An elderly lady cannot go back in this situation, she has no place to go back to all her family is settled (paying taxes and all) in the uk and she has spent 7 years in the uk WITHOUT any state assistance.

I didnt realise this was the wannabe-politican board!

You HAVE already been answered. She can only wait for a further 7 years till she can apply in the the 14-year long residence category for ILR.

edits: removed unnecessary stuff

[Twin]

Is it really? Deportation as far as i'm aware usually takes where the immigrant had committed a grievous offence. In her case, if she's caught, she'll be removed for overstaying and probably at public expense which would only carry 5 year ban and she might have to repay the expense when the ban is lifted.

Removal is the word, not deportation.

Are you sure that only those who have committed an offence, let alone a grievous offence, are deported? Haven't you heard of illegal immigrants being rounded up and send to the detention centres, pending deportation?

I've heard of illegal immigrants being rounded up and removed (maybe deportation on a case by case basis).

Maybe you need to explain the differences between administrative removal and deportation to me, please.

Deportation - Removal of someone who has been served with a Deportation Order, signed by the Home Secretary, the Immigration Minister (or these days by Lin Homer, Chief Executive of the BIA as well). Somebody may be recommended for deportation by a judge, following conviction and sentence, or will be considered for deportation by the BIA if they receive a prison sentence of one year or more (2 years in the case of EEA nationals).

Administrative removal - an illegal entrant, overstayer or worker-in- breach is served with a notice by an immigration officer (or these days it can be a caseworker on behalf of the Secretary of State) - the notice is usually form IS151A. They then become subject to Removal Directions and liable to be detained, although they may be granted Temporary Admission/Release if it's not possible to remove them within a short period of time.

But my reading of the new proposals is that anyone who is leaves the UK following service of a 151A will be subject to the same 10-year penalty as a deportee, because they are subject to Removal Directions. The only way to attract a lesser penalty is to leave before the law catches up with you

I have re-read the statement of changes and you are absolutely right!

[sunny9675]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

look before my post was hijacked by some bigoted agenda-driven morons, I asked a reasonable question which seems unanswerable by the majority of the repliers. get off your high horses and smell the coffee! An elderly lady cannot go back in this situation, she has no place to go back to all her family is settled (paying taxes and all) in the uk and she has spent 7 years in the uk WITHOUT any state assistance.

===============================================
ALL family members r selfish , for their beneifits they made her illegal
God knows r really they pay tax , those care about law they take care all the areas of laws or mostly they default in all areas of law

[sakura]

look before my post was hijacked by some bigoted agenda-driven morons, I asked a reasonable question which seems unanswerable by the majority of the repliers. get off your high horses and smell the coffee! An elderly lady cannot go back in this situation, she has no place to go back to all her family is settled (paying taxes and all) in the uk and she has spent 7 years in the uk WITHOUT any state assistance.

I didnt realise this was the wannabe-politican board!

You HAVE already been answered. She can only wait for a further 7 years till she can apply in the the 14-year long residence category for ILR.

edits: removed unnecessary stuff

Yes, the Long Residence ILR is her other option, if she doesn't return home and/or apply for the elderly parent's visa (or whatever it's called).

The problem with this is....if the BIA win in implementing bans based on overstaying, wouldn't this have an affect on the 14-yr ILR applications? I mean, one cannot aim to ban overstayers for (insert period here) and still keep the 14-yr LRC open, right?

[Wanderer]

look before my post was hijacked by some bigoted agenda-driven morons, I asked a reasonable question which seems unanswerable by the majority of the repliers. get off your high horses and smell the coffee! An elderly lady cannot go back in this situation, she has no place to go back to all her family is settled (paying taxes and all) in the uk and she has spent 7 years in the uk WITHOUT any state assistance.

I didnt realise this was the wannabe-politican board! 8)

You HAVE already been answered. She can only wait for a further 7 years till she can apply in the the 14-year long residence category for ILR.

edits: removed unnecessary stuff

Yes, the Long Residence ILR is her other option, if she doesn't return home and/or apply for the elderly parent's visa (or whatever it's called).

The problem with this is....if the BIA win in implementing bans based on overstaying, wouldn't this have an affect on the 14-yr ILR applications? I mean, one cannot aim to ban overstayers for (insert period here) and still keep the 14-yr LRC open, right?

Don't forget - she's an aunt, not a parent!

I too think the 14 year thing will be withdrawn, it sticks out like a sore thumb in todays new look rules.

I wouldn't mind betting the ten year one will go too, or at least be amended to exclude perennial students....

[try-one]

Amserve
Roads, Police, NHS, Utilities, Public Transport, Post, Legal System.....all of those are supported by the State and taxes other people are paying. A society must operate under a set of laws and these must include immigration.

[paulp]

Yes, the Long Residence ILR is her other option, if she doesn't return home and/or apply for the elderly parent's visa (or whatever it's called).

The problem with this is....if the BIA win in implementing bans based on overstaying, wouldn't this have an affect on the 14-yr ILR applications? I mean, one cannot aim to ban overstayers for (insert period here) and still keep the 14-yr LRC open, right?

Yeah, there is no certainty at this point. The 14-year ILR has usually been for illegals who couldn't be caught by the HO and managed to create a life here in the UK, while the ban is for people who did get caught.