E.U States Allowing Visa free Travel-E.U Fam&Residence c

johannf · Post by **johannf** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:32 pm

That is what I thought too. I assume if my kids did not have Irish passports then they would need visas, which makes more sense.

This is the second time this forum has helped me clarify things that are extremely vague on embassy and other travel sites! Thank you !!!!!!

Post by **ca.funke** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:45 pm

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:Anyone travelling with an EU passport or ID card requires no visa EVER.

Of course not, except in the wet dreams of some >>embassy staff / outsourced visa-center-staff<<.

johannf · Post by **johannf** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:56 pm

Well I'm now wondering if I should rather choose another airline, as it seems Easyjet staff can also cause problems. Luckily Ryan Air does not do flights to where we want to go....!

Post by **ca.funke** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:09 pm

Hi johannf,

in the end getting to your destination is (unfortunately) always a matter of luck.

You should be prepared for the worst-case-scenario of ultimately being denied boarding.

However, I have not heard of a single "denied boarding" case, where travellers consulted this forum beforehand, knew the laws, and if needed got themselves into an argument. (I wish there was more feedback, but what can we do...)

So, obviously without guarantee, my best guess would be that you will make it, regardless of which airline you take.

Ryanair and Easyjet are very bad in this matter, others are better. But after all everything can happen on every airline.

Rgds, Christian

johannf · Post by **johannf** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:16 pm

true what you are saying there.

But we will be prepared, this is one thing I have learnt through our travels to the UK. Always have all the paperwork they would possible want to see. I'm not normally one that causes a fuss, and if we have a problem I normally handle it calmly and carefully, while still giving them the facts.

moroni · Post by **moroni** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:00 pm

johannf wrote:Thanks Jambo. I just had check about this because the last thing we want is to be denied entry at the airport.

My only concern however, is on the Edinburgh website it says the following about children:
"Note that children and parents of EU Nationals still require visas to travel to France".

Why would my children need visas if they also have Irish passports?

I understand that it applies if the children of the EU National are not EU nationals. For example, your children may be South African instead of Irish.

EDIT:
Oops, I didn't read all before posting, I see you wrote the same before

johannf · Post by **johannf** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:01 am

Hi all. Has anyone got a link to the manual/guidelines that the airline staff uses to check whether or not a person needs a visa? (TIMAC?) I saw it somewhere on one of the forum posts but cant find it again. I would like to check what it says...

Post by **Jambo** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:23 am

Airlines TIMATIC database.

johannf · Post by **johannf** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:44 am

Thanks Jambo. That is what I needed.
I see easyjet is not a member of IATA & TIMAC... is that maybe why they sometimes give hassles about visas when boarding?

johannf · Post by **johannf** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:00 pm

Well I just spoke to someone at TLSContact, who now handles all visa applications in the UK on behalf of the french consulate. And according to the lady who I spoke to my EEA2 residence card means nothing, and I still need a schengen visa?? because I have a south african passport.

But I have now looked at their FAQ section on their website and it says the following:

"Question: My British residency card states that I am the "Family Member of an EEA national". Do I require a visa to travel to France?

If your British residency card states "Family Member of an EEA national", this family member is not a French or UK citizen, you have official documentation to prove this relationship and you are either travelling together with this person or going to meet them in France, you do not require a visa to travel. However, if you fail to meet any of these criteria, you do require a visa to travel. Please note the the exact words "Family Member of an EEA national" must be written on your residency card and that the quality of simply "being" a family member of an EEA national does not remove the passport holder's requirement to obtain a visa for travel."

So it looks like even these ppl are confused!? Its madness!

Post by **Jambo** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:09 pm

1. As TLSContact are just contractors, they are not always very familiar with all the rules. Unfortunately.

2. Did you tell her you have a "Family member of EEA national Residence Card?" I'm not sure that "EEA2" would tell her anything. It's just the HO application form name.

Post by **ca.funke** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:08 pm

johannf wrote:So it looks like even these ppl are confused!? Its madness!

It´s been madness for 6 years (since 2004/38/EC came into effect), and the Commission is doing nothing to alleviate the situation.

Welcome to Europe

See >>my suggestion<< (I know, who am I to suggest sthg like that?) to bring all of this into line.

Advantages would be:

Easier travel for people who are allowed to travel anyway
Less senseless work for Embassy staff, thus saving money
Less bureaucracy/misunderstandings at the border, thus border guards could concentrate on their *real* job

So many good things in one go

In Europe that seems to be a guarantee that it won´t happen

johannf · Post by **johannf** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:29 pm

Hi Jambo. Yes, I was quite clear about the residence card, but i could hear that she wasnt sure what I was talking about, and I had to hold for her to speak to a supervisor. And she probably gave the supervisor the wrong info as well....

ca.funke, madness indeed! but your suggestions would go a very long way in sorting things out.

I will be honest, before we came to the UK I really had a picture of Europe working smoothly with these sorts of things, because their entry requirements are so complicated and thorough. But now that we are here, it looks much worse, with countries and consulates contradicting eachother and themselves with some things... and there's also a stubbornness, and unwillingness to implement new regulations. But then again, I'm no expert, so I can only give my opinion.

We will go ahead and book our flights to Paris, and take the chance. I have already got Directive 2004/2004/38/EC printed out, the FAQ section of the TLSContact website where the EEA issue is stated, along with the TIMATIC regulations for travel to France, all printed out. I've also email TLSContact about it, so if they give a good answer I can take that with us too. And the the marriage certificate etc. Everything is going with!

MelC · Post by **MelC** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:55 pm

ca.funke wrote:Hi philimali,
philimali wrote:Question is, does the directive not apply to my Family because I am French or is it a case of them not knowing who the rule applies to? I would like to go back to France in the future but I wonder because it seems we were lucky to be allowed in.
The guy had no clue of the law. Your wife and kid can travel to France without visa anytime as long as you´re with them.

philimali wrote:I am a French citizen living and working in the UK with my wife and son who are non eea family members
Just wondering how your son can be non-EU? If you´re French your son should be Frensh by virtue of being the son of a French national, and/or also a UK citzen by virutue of being born in the UK to at least one EU-citizen?

Or are they from some country that doesn´t allow dual citizenship?

Rgds, Christian

In theory yes, they have the right to travel, but if they are NOT in the UK under the directive in the first place, its advisable to get the free schengen visa.

In particular, eurostar insist that visa's are required for travel TO the UK, as per the UK immigration information to them ~ would you like to read thier email to me on this point? the problem is two fold, one that the UK are saying that the visa is required or travel will be refused, just to push people to get EEA/fp's which are neither a visa nor mandatory, and the other point is the french are not sure what documents people need to EXIT france, every carrier has a different opinion on this!

wanwanlee · Post by **wanwanlee** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:18 pm

I am a family member of EEA citizen (My husband is from Czech Repulic), I am holding a Permanent Resident Card under EEA4 application as my 5 years Residence Card for family member has expired. I would like to ask if the rule for visa free is applied for Permanent Resident Card as well? I will be travelling to Spain with my husband and our daughter (British Citizen).
Can somebody let me know asap

Post by **ca.funke** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:39 pm

wanwanlee wrote:I am a family member of EEA citizen (My husband is from Czech Repulic), I am holding a Permanent Resident Card under EEA4 application as my 5 years Residence Card for family member has expired. I would like to ask if the rule for visa free is applied for Permanent Resident Card as well? I will be travelling to Spain with my husband and our daughter (British Citizen).
Can somebody let me know asap

Hi wanwanlee,

what you´re asking is described under heading "EEA family member without Residence Card (Part 2)" >>here<<.

Rgds, Christian

wanwanlee · Post by **wanwanlee** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:11 pm

So you mean that I can not use my Permanent Residence Card to travel to Schengen without any visa? Even Permanent Residence Card were issued under Directive 2004/8/EC Article 20? If yes, I will take note in the future to apply Schengen Visa before hand.

sachara · Post by **sachara** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:53 pm

com'n guys, get the visa if u travel . its not difficult and doesnt cost too much.
its better to pay that 60 pounds than to suffer all that nonsense by the borders.

wanwanlee · Post by **wanwanlee** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:10 pm

I used to get my Schengen Visa from Czech Embassy. They always give me one year Schengen Visa because my husband is from Czech Republic. But now they returned my application form with the reason that I can travel to Schengen area without any visa. Right now, Spain Embassy said I need a visa cause my Residence Card do not shown as Family of EEA member anymore (I have a Permanent Residence Card from EEA4 application)

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:14 pm

sachara wrote:com'n guys, get the visa if u travel . its not difficult and doesnt cost too much.
its better to pay that 60 pounds than to suffer all that nonsense by the borders.

You get very little nonsense once you know the rules. People move around quite easily.

Do you have a EU-law Residence Card or PR Card and you are still getting visas for all your travel? If so can I ask what experiences you have had just travelling with the RC or PR card?

Post by **ca.funke** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:22 pm

wanwanlee wrote:So you mean that I can not use my Permanent Residence Card to travel to Schengen without any visa? Even Permanent Residence Card were issued under Directive 2004/8/EC Article 20? If yes, I will take note in the future to apply Schengen Visa before hand.

I mean exactly what I wrote >>here<<, which means that you should really check under heading "EEA family member without Residence Card (Part 2)" >>here<<.

If you have a specific question, you´re welcome to ask again.

Rgds, Christian

Post by **Jambo** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:07 am

wanwanlee wrote:I used to get my Schengen Visa from Czech Embassy. They always give me one year Schengen Visa because my husband is from Czech Republic. But now they returned my application form with the reason that I can travel to Schengen area without any visa. Right now, Spain Embassy said I need a visa cause my Residence Card do not shown as Family of EEA member anymore (I have a Permanent Residence Card from EEA4 application)

See similar discussion - EEA4 residence card and EU visa free travel.

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:15 pm

sachara wrote:com'n guys, get the visa if u travel . its not difficult and doesnt cost too much.
its better to pay that 60 pounds than to suffer all that nonsense by the borders.

I think that's a rather defeatist attitude (one that you are entitled to hold of course).

For the record, the visa would be free.

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:17 pm

wanwanlee wrote:I used to get my Schengen Visa from Czech Embassy. They always give me one year Schengen Visa because my husband is from Czech Republic. But now they returned my application form with the reason that I can travel to Schengen area without any visa. Right now, Spain Embassy said I need a visa cause my Residence Card do not shown as Family of EEA member anymore (I have a Permanent Residence Card from EEA4 application)

PR cards will most likely be a little rarer than RC. The German embassy gives the right information. The rest will catch up. Complain.

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:20 pm

Jambo wrote:
wanwanlee wrote:I used to get my Schengen Visa from Czech Embassy. They always give me one year Schengen Visa because my husband is from Czech Republic. But now they returned my application form with the reason that I can travel to Schengen area without any visa. Right now, Spain Embassy said I need a visa cause my Residence Card do not shown as Family of EEA member anymore (I have a Permanent Residence Card from EEA4 application)
See similar discussion - EEA4 residence card and EU visa free travel.

Thanks Jambo, saved me searching!

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E.U States Allowing Visa free Travel-E.U Fam&Residence c

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