Section 8(2) in Indian Citizenship Act, 1955

[ban.s]

I recently wrote to Ministry of Home Affairs seeking advice on Section 8(2) in The Citizenship Act, 1955

This law states:

(2) Where 1[ a person] ceases to be a citizen of India under sub- section (1), every minor child of that person shall there upon cease to be a citizen of India: Provided that any such child may, within one year after attaining full age, make a declaration that he wishes to resume Indian citizenship and shall thereupon again become a citizen of India.

Please see below the response:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: soic1 <soic1@mha.gov.in>
Date: Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 8:00 AM
Subject:
To:


Sub:Section 8(2) in the citizenship Act,1955

Refence your e-mail dated 06.06.2013..Clarification is as under:-

"When a person (father/mother) ceases to be a citizen of India whether by renunciation or by termination, every minor child of that person shall there upon cease to be a citizen of India. However, in case of renunciation, such minor child can again become citizen of India after submitting a declaration in the prescribed form and manner, within one year after attaining full age. Further, such person, after acquiring citizenship of another country, can acquired OCI Card for his minor children under section 7A of the Citizenship Act,1955.

---------- End of Forwarded message ----------

So as soon as either father or mother of the child renounces citizenship, the child will also cease to be an Indian citizen. It won't matter if the other parent still retained Indian citizenship.

[ric1982]

I recently wrote to Ministry of Home Affairs seeking advice on Section 8(2) in The Citizenship Act, 1955

This law states:

(2) Where 1[ a person] ceases to be a citizen of India under sub- section (1), every minor child of that person shall there upon cease to be a citizen of India: Provided that any such child may, within one year after attaining full age, make a declaration that he wishes to resume Indian citizenship and shall thereupon again become a citizen of India.

Please see below the response:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: soic1 <soic1@mha.gov.in>
Date: Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 8:00 AM
Subject:
To:


Sub:Section 8(2) in the citizenship Act,1955

Refence your e-mail dated 06.06.2013..Clarification is as under:-

"When a person (father/mother) ceases to be a citizen of India whether by renunciation or by termination, every minor child of that person shall there upon cease to be a citizen of India. However, in case of renunciation, such minor child can again become citizen of India after submitting a declaration in the prescribed form and manner, within one year after attaining full age. Further, such person, after acquiring citizenship of another country, can acquired OCI Card for his minor children under section 7A of the Citizenship Act,1955.

---------- End of Forwarded message ----------

So as soon as either father or mother of the child renounces citizenship, the child will also cease to be an Indian citizen. It won't matter if the other parent still retained Indian citizenship.

That does not sound right. I know you can apply for Indian citizenship for child as far as either of the parents are Indian.

[destiniation_london]

surely doesn't sound correct, what if in a situation father attains British citizenship but mother and child are back in India and their Visa application is refused for some reason ... what citizenship a child be in that scenario???

Also, a child does not automatically acquires British nationality if born outside so in that case if he/she is no longer an indian Citizenship...i wonder what citizenship would he be then? surely not right

[ban.s]

That does not sound right. I know you can apply for Indian citizenship for child as far as either of the parents are Indian.

Yes, a child can be registered as Indian by decent with either of the parents being indian and other foreign national. In this case one of the parents is already a foreign national i.e. holds foreign nationality PRIOR to the child receives Indian citizenship.

However 8(2) deals with situations where one of parents renounces Indian citizenship AFTER the child has obtained Indian nationality.

[ban.s]

surely doesn't sound correct, what if in a situation father attains British citizenship but mother and child are back in India and their Visa application is refused for some reason ... what citizenship a child be in that scenario???

Also, a child does not automatically acquires British nationality if born outside so in that case if he/she is no longer an indian Citizenship...i wonder what citizenship would he be then? surely not right

I don't think the law will aim to make anyone stateless. It will apply to those who also holds a foreign nationality but not excercised that by acquiring a passport.

PS: I don't have authority to comment on the correctness of the law. I am just trying to explore the proper interpretatioin of the law and any potential impact on a child with an indian passport + CoE ROA

[eashkuma4]

This is really confusing, because I called High Commission London and Edinburgh and asked this, they said child will not loose Indian Nationality.

the interesting thing is they told, even though both the parents hold British Nationality, child can still be on Indian.

The Officer who spoke to me, aasked me to be on hold and went and checked it with manager and came back and confirmed.

[ban.s]

This is really confusing, because I called High Commission London and Edinburgh and asked this, they said child will not loose Indian Nationality.

the interesting thing is they told, even though both the parents hold British Nationality, child can still be on Indian.

The Officer who spoke to me, aasked me to be on hold and went and checked it with manager and came back and confirmed.

Verbal affirmation don’t hold any ground especially when there is no legal reference to corroborate that rather section 8(2) clearly states otherwise.

My suggestion would be write to them and seek written confirmation especially ask for their interpretation of section 8(2). You may also seek professional advice.
Do post your feedback here.

[rrp]

Have any one found any information on (When a person (father/mother) ceases to be a citizen of India whether by renunciation or by termination, every minor child of that person shall there upon cease to be a citizen of India).

[geriatrix]

Can anyone explain how this will work for a child when one parent continues to hold Indian citizenship and the other takes on foreign nationality?

According to the inferences drawn here with respect to section 8(2) of the Indian Citizenship Act 1995, the child will lose Indian citizenship if either parent acquires foreign nationality.

However 8(2) deals with situations where one of parents renounces Indian citizenship AFTER the child has obtained Indian nationality.

So, will a child born in India (Indian by birth) living in India with one Indian citizen parent lose his Indian citizenship just because the other parent has been employed in UK for last 6 years and acquires British citizenship? The child is no longer an Indian citizen, according to the inferences being drawn here, and the child cannot be British because he was born in India before the living-abroad parent became a British citizen. So, is the child then stateless?

What will be the effect of section(3)(1)(c)(ii) on such a child? Or the effect of section(4)(b) on child Indian by descent?

Which section(s) of Indian Citizenship Act 1955 allows a child born when one parent is Indian and the other a foreign national to be an Indian citizen by descent but terminates the citizenship of an existing Indian citizen by descent (child) when one parent acquires foreign nationality after the child's birth? That's discrimination on the basis of time of birth!!
Likewise, for Indian citizenship by birth!

[geriatrix]

Here's another scenario ...

An Indian citizen who had been granted settlement in 2011 sponsors his spouse and minor child to the UK under the family route. Both spouse and child enter UK in 2011 with valid EC under family route. The sponsor becomes eligible for naturalisation in 2012, applies for it and is granted British citizenship.

The spouse and minor child apply for settlement in 2013.


Now:
based on the inferences arrived at regarding section 8(2) of the Indian citizenship Act 1955 in this topic, and on the basis of UKBA's own statement under para 5.1 of Appendix H: Indian citizenship law, UKBA should refuse the settlement application of the minor child because the child ceased to be an Indian citizen in 2012 ... and has been stateless instead since then!

The child should only be allowed to make an immigration application that the UK immigration law lets a stateless person make.

[vinny]

See also Stateless guidance.

[ban.s]

@sushdmehta - I don't think answers to your questions are easily available (atleast based on information / resources available online). I will write to MHA in the next couple of days with few scenarios and update once I receive any response.

As we are discussing 'Stateless' topic here - one related question I have:

a child born in the UK to an Indian parents (not yet settled) is not British by birth. The child is also not Indian by descent u/s 4(b) until his/her birth is registered with High Commission. If the parents deliberately choose not to register the baby until they obtain ILR with a view to register directly as British through 1(3) - what would be child's nationality at Birth?

[geriatrix]

Well, I think I know the answers.

I am only questioning the conclusions drawn in the topic based on response to an email that may have been authored by a clerk in MHA with no knowledge of the Indian Citizenship Act. If you write to MHA, you'll only get reworded response of the rule mentioned in the Indian Citizenship Act. If you need the actual interpretation, then get in touch with an expert in field of Indian citizenship law.

I am not discussing "stateless" topic here .... I am questioning the conclusions being drawn about section 8(2) being used in isolation and as if it overrides every other section of the act.

I've presented different scenarios whereby, by your inference, the child would be stateless.

How many times have you experienced yourself or heard of people being misguided or ill-informed by UKBA when you / they called up or email the UKBA helpline?? The opening post somehow reminds me of such experiences!

Understanding the nitty-gritties of citizenship law (of any country) isn't child's play. So, if you want to know the "right" answers, get in touch with an expert!!

[geriatrix]

The child is also not Indian by descent u/s 4(b) until his/her birth is registered with High Commission.

No, the rule(s) mention(s) "unless", not "until".

Also, remember there is a difference between:
1. registering the "birth of the child" at HCI (i.e. - making GOI aware of birth a child who is Indian) - similar to registering the birth at the registrars office in the UK, and
2. registering the "child as an Indian citizen" - similar to submitting an MN1 application in the UK.

People actually do 1 but they assume that they are doing 2!!

[ban.s]

Well, the title of the post may incorrectly imply it’s for the generic interpretation of 8(2) but it was created as a follow-up discussion from another thread and as mentioned in an earlier comment the purpose of this was to explore any potential impact on a child with an Indian passport + CoE ROA. So not definitely not to discuss wider implication. I don’t claim to be an expert on Indian nationality law and I am aware that 8(2) can’t be just applied independently and it can’t override others. Section 9, Citizenship Rules and appropriate sections need to be taken into consideration if there is any conflict.

So referring to the original intention, in your opinion what is the impact of 8(2) on an Indian by descent child with COE ROA. Will the child lose his indian citizenship or not? If not, is it because section 9 overrides 8(2) here as the child hasn’t voluntary acquired the British citizenship and hasn’t exercised it? If so when can 8(2) be applicable?

On the second subject, as per my understanding 1 & 2 refer to the same process and formally called Registration of birth of a minor child at an Indian Consulate under Section 4(1) of the citizenship act, 1955). I am not sure if there is any separate process for just registration of the birth without registering the child as indian citizen.
So again on this second subject (consider the spirit of the question) if the child was not registered as an indian citizen then what would be child’s nationality at birth (assuming the child later obtains British Citizenship through registration)?

[rrp]

Thanks to all. Hope we can come to an conclusion. So if a child born to Indian parents settled(ILR) and follow these steps.

1) Registration of children eligible for Indian nationality in HCI
2) Apply for Indian passport
3) Apply for COE ROA

The child will be Indian by descent with COE ROA.

In future if one parents get British citizenship then the child should not loose Indian citizenship because the other parent still holds Indian citizen and as mentioned by Ban.S the section 9 overrides 8(2). Can any one please confirm if my understanding is correct?

[geriatrix]

You are missing the point time and again!

My opinion or yours or someone else's isn't what matters, what matters is "the facts" or answers from someone who understands Indian citizenship law and its nitty-gritties and is competent to answer such queries.

You are seeking answers about complex interpretation of Indian citizenship act that you may not find on a forum where the central focus is "British immigration and nationality".

Also, unlike UKBA (or Home Office) which has volumes of guidance to cover almost every aspect of British immigration and nationality laws, the best MHA has probably done till date is upload a "scanned" copy of Indian citizenship act on their website. Try learning and understanding the intricacies of the law from that one scanned document!!

When I made the sticky topic regarding CoE ROA last year, I ended the topic with the statement:

I strongly suggest that you double-check this with a lawyer competent in Indian immigration and citizenship law(s).

for a reason! I was making people aware of a something that may be possible. Whether it is or not or under what circumstances, I am not competent enough to say.

(Perhaps, I should have highlighted the text .. to draw attention. Guess I will do it now ...)

Likewise, I am not interested in "opinion sharing" on the various sections of the act or their interdependence, that some people may end up relying on to make life-changing decision(s) and find themselves in more trouble than they bargained for anytime later. Nor am I sharing the answers / information I know because I cannot substantiate that with any evidence available online for you / others to view and verify.

I got drawn into posting in the topic due to some assertions being made / conclusions being drawn without evidence to support them. My responses were a hint for the need of caution .. which I hope I have now spelled out clearly.


Feel free to share opinions, but make sure that the others reading the topic don't miscontrue them as true interpretation of Indian citizenship act.

[physku]

My understanding is this:

" From 3 December 2004 any child born in India will only be an Indian citizen if either of the parents is a citizen of India and the other parent is not:
a. an illegal immigrant; or
b. a foreign diplomat or envoy (who is not a citizen of India); or
c. an enemy alien and the birth occurs in a place then under enemy occupation "

" Further, if an Indian minor obtains another nationality or citizenship (for example by registration as a BN(O)) the child will automatically lose its Indian citizenship. This applies even where the registration is made by the parents/guardian on behalf of the child"

So its plain and simple: if one parent is still Indian citizen, and no registration of the Child as a foreign national, the Child is Indian Citizen.

Hope that clears everything.

You are missing the point time and again!

My opinion or yours or someone else's isn't what matters, what matters is "the facts" or answers from someone who understands Indian citizenship law and its nitty-gritties and is competent to answer such queries.

You are seeking answers about complex interpretation of Indian citizenship act that you may not find on a forum where the central focus is "British immigration and nationality".

Also, unlike UKBA (or Home Office) which has volumes of guidance to cover almost every aspect of British immigration and nationality laws, the best MHA has probably done till date is upload a "scanned" copy of Indian citizenship act on their website. Try learning and understanding the intricacies of the law from that one scanned document!!

When I made the sticky topic regarding CoE ROA last year, I ended the topic with the statement:

I strongly suggest that you double-check this with a lawyer competent in Indian immigration and citizenship law(s).

for a reason! I was making people aware of a something that may be possible. Whether it is or not or under what circumstances, I am not competent enough to say.

(Perhaps, I should have highlighted the text .. to draw attention. Guess I will do it now ...)

Likewise, I am not interested in "opinion sharing" on the various sections of the act or their interdependence, that some people may end up relying on to make life-changing decision(s) and find themselves in more trouble than they bargained for anytime later. Nor am I sharing the answers / information I know because I cannot substantiate that with any evidence available online for you / others to view and verify.

I got drawn into posting in the topic due to some assertions being made / conclusions being drawn without evidence to support them. My responses were a hint for the need of caution .. which I hope I have now spelled out clearly.


Feel free to share opinions, but make sure that the others reading the topic don't miscontrue them as true interpretation of Indian citizenship act.

[eashkuma4]

Dear All,

I wrote an email to the HCI London asking if the child will loose Indian nationality provided one Parent acquires British and they clarified that Child will not loose Indian nationality as long as one parent is continuing as Indian

Many thanks

[rishabhs]

Hi All,

I am in the same situation, my wife, our 2 minor children and I are Indian Citizens.
My wife has an opportunity to take a foreign nationality.

In the event she does take the foreign nationality and renounces her Indian Citizenship, and I continue to keep my Indian Citizenship, will my children also be allowed to keep their Indian Citizenship?

If anyone has done this, i would greatly appreciate your feedback.

Thank you

[eashkuma4]

Dear

I have checked with the HCI London and I have a written confirmation from them that once a child is Indian citizen, the child don't loose their nationality status until they gain another nationality, parents citizenship doesn't have any effect on minor children.

In your case, if your wife takes British Nationality, you and your children can still remain as Indian nationals being one parent still continous as Indian

[rishabhs]

Hi there, thank you for sharing, did you get any more confirmation on this procedure and law.
Thank you. I really appreciate it.

I recently wrote to Ministry of Home Affairs seeking advice on Section 8(2) in The Citizenship Act, 1955

This law states:

(2) Where 1[ a person] ceases to be a citizen of India under sub- section (1), every minor child of that person shall there upon cease to be a citizen of India: Provided that any such child may, within one year after attaining full age, make a declaration that he wishes to resume Indian citizenship and shall thereupon again become a citizen of India.

Please see below the response:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: soic1 <soic1@mha.gov.in>
Date: Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 8:00 AM
Subject:
To:


Sub:Section 8(2) in the citizenship Act,1955

Refence your e-mail dated 06.06.2013..Clarification is as under:-

"When a person (father/mother) ceases to be a citizen of India whether by renunciation or by termination, every minor child of that person shall there upon cease to be a citizen of India. However, in case of renunciation, such minor child can again become citizen of India after submitting a declaration in the prescribed form and manner, within one year after attaining full age. Further, such person, after acquiring citizenship of another country, can acquired OCI Card for his minor children under section 7A of the Citizenship Act,1955.

---------- End of Forwarded message ----------

So as soon as either father or mother of the child renounces citizenship, the child will also cease to be an Indian citizen. It won't matter if the other parent still retained Indian citizenship.

[technoguy]

Hi, I just want to pick this old topic. My situation (Question in pt 4);
1. Minor Child born in UK when both parents were ILR.
2. Child birth has been registered with the Indian consulate along with Indian Passport and UK ROA.
3. Now both the parents apply and get British Citizenship along with OCI.
4. What would be the citizenship of child? Does minor child now automatically ceases to be citizen of India even after he has rightfully acquired Indian citizenship by descent? In this case as child was born in UK to ILR parent’s child is British Citizen by birth but what will happen if the child was born in India and has Indian passport and both the parents acquire British citizenship, then child becomes stateless?

[ban.s]

As advised earlier in this thread, please double-check this with a lawyer competent in Indian immigration and citizenship law(s).

Ps: I will lock this topic to avoid any futute confusion on this subject.

[nachiket123]

Does any body knows answer to this question for sure(?)

If one of parents become foreign citizen by renouncing Indian citizenship and other parent is still Indian do child loses Indian citizenship?

2) Where 1[ a person] ceases to be a citizen of India under sub- section (1), every minor child of that person shall there upon cease to be a citizen of India: Provided that any such child may, within one year after attaining full age, make a declaration that he wishes to resume Indian citizenship and shall thereupon again become a citizen of India.

@eashkuma4-- Could you please post the reply from HCI London here?

Thanks in advance.