EEA family permit

[runie80]

Hi Everyone.

I got my EEA family permit for six months as an EU spouse.

Delighted with this news

My Visa is valid for next 6 Months. We are planning to move to UK in the last month of my visa.What I want to know is will this be a problem for my extension ?

What documents do i need for my extension of EEA family permit and national insurance number.

After how long after arriving in UK i can apply for the extension of my EEA family permit.

Is it necessary for both of us to have JOBS at the time of applying for my EEA family permit extension.

If we arrive there one month before my EEA family permit expires can i extend my EEA family permit ? is there anything which i need to keep in mind ?

Thanking you in Advance

Much appreciate your responce

regards
Runie80

[John]

You may find it very strange but there is in fact no compulsion for you or your spouse to apply for anything after you arrive in the UK! The EU regulations that came into force on 30.04.06 make it clear that any Residence Permit or Residence Card that is issued after an application is merely confirmatory and does not actually give you any more Treaty Rights.

BUT ... and it is a big but ... especially for you. If you want to work an employer, or prospective employer, will need to see proof of your ability to work without needing a Work Permit. Accordingly you would be well-advised to submit a form EEA2 to get a Residence Card, and on doing so you will get back a letter from BIA that confirms your ability to work, even before the Residence Card is issued to you.

When the application is made it will need to be clear that your spouse, the EU citizen, is exercising their EU Treaty Rights ... for example by working in the UK.

You ask if you both needs jobs in the UK. No, indeed there is no legal obligation on you to work at all. After all you could be at home looking after children, but you would still have your EU Treaty Right to live in the UK with your spouse who is exercising their EU Treaty Rights.

[runie80]

Hi John

Thanks very much.

I much much appreciate your advice.

So i believe that i can enter UK on this EEA family permit which i intend to do and once i am there After taking a breath there i can apply my extension for residence in UK.

There is no rush for me to apply for it but Its in my favour that i apply it at my first convenience.

Also once i have applied I believe I will get a letter stating that i am entitled to work.

I really appreciate your advice

Just wanted to make this clear as our patience has been tested in Ireland to say it mildly.
I know UK have very clear rules about immigration and they are very helpful normally in matters like this.

But my Irish experience has made me just more cautious.

Thanks John for your response
You are an asset to the forum.
Regards

If anyone find anything else relating or worth mentioning here please feel free

[John]

I can understand where you are coming from, given your experience of Ireland and its "unusual" interpretation of various EU documents.

As regards the UK, have a good read through the INF18 Guidance Notes which hopefully give you comfort about the UK's interpretation of EU rules.

Notice the section which reads :-

Do my family members need a residence card?
Your non-EEA family members can, if they want to, apply to the Border and Immigration Agency for a residence card once they are in the UK. They do not have to do this - it simply confirms that they have the right to live with you in the UK because you have a right of residence.

-: and lots more.

[runie80]

Thanks john.

I much appreciate your accurate and honest advice.

Thats even more specific information now what you have just posted in your last post.

I know UK immigration system is much much more robust and organized than the Irish system.

You have no idea what people here have been put through.Families have been destroyed because of the stupid interpertation of the Irish of EU law.I was thinking about doing my MBA here and not i think i am not going to bother in Ireland.

Ireland needs improvement big style.

you can see from their immigration website how effective they are
an 8 year old child can create a better looking website.

dont believe me

compare your self !

UK immigration website
http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk
Irish website
http://www.justice.ie/

Speaks volumes in itself and need no words:lol:

[limey]

Runie: Congratulations!

Once you get the residence permit for the UK maybe you could try for the Irish EU Visa again? Not sure how long the Irish rules require you to have lived in another EU country though?

[runie80]

Hi Limey

Thanks for your advice and congrats.

I dont think I will bother living in a country which GOV dosent respect the Law they signed up to themself and they know its wrong.

I am a qualified person and i wanted to live in a country and contribute my skills to the socitey and to be the part of the socitey.

I will not Live in Ireland for the fact that they always keep changing the goal posts.The customer service responce is atrocious if you deal with DOJ here you will have some idea..No feed back no contact.

I fear thinking of living in Ireland and having kids in future and 5 years down the road i think i made the mistake they have no legal status and its all in Limbo Land.

I am not begging Ireland for my Visa.It is my right thats why I applied.
I have no shortage of work like most people here who are skilled and pose no harm of anykind to the socitey what so ever to claim benifits or etc.

In brief I will say
I will not live in ireland even if they approve my application.
The longterm risks are too much for me.

[megmog]

Her Runie,

Thats great news! I am pleased for you.. at least one of us has some good news.

Could you tell me... how long did it take to get the eea permit, and what did you submit as proof of legal residence in Ireland?

We are in Ireland too, having the same problems as you did... would be grateful if you could share some more details of the process.

[runie80]

Thanks MegMog

yes its great news for me infact.

The whole thing took about 2 weeks for me as i only sent my marriage cert and passports in the begining and then they sent me email requesting additional documents which i sent u in PM

Then i arranged those documents as referance letters has to be requested and bank statements had to be requested from bank too so it took some time in that.

But it all ended super !

UK is much much organized when it comes to dealing with law and immigration. Most of the times you get whats stated on the TIN

when in Ireland you get depends on who you get on the other side of the window

[Barker1]

Hey guys
Hope somebody out there can help me.
I'm curently in the UK on an EEA family permit. And it will be expiring on the 1 September the problem is this. On the 6 September I'm due to leave the UK for Greece for a week, and from what i've just learnt, for me to renew the EEA family permit i will be have to hand over my wifes and my passport for up to 6 months obviously this is going to be a problem as we are needing our passports to travel. I had also heard but through a friend that if you go to the British Embassy of your sposes country you can have it all sorted in a day but when i contacted the English embassy in Ireland (my wife is Irish).
I spoke to 3 different people, i heard 3 different stories none making much sense and none making my life any easier. There has to be something I can do, I got the visa originally back home in Slouth Africa and it took 10 days why all the red tape over here.
Any help will be realy appreciated
Thanks Shaun

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Hey guys
Hope somebody out there can help me.
I'm curently in the UK on an EEA family permit. And it will be expiring on the 1 September the problem is this. On the 6 September I'm due to leave the UK for Greece for a week, and from what i've just learnt, for me to renew the EEA family permit i will be have to hand over my wifes and my passport for up to 6 months obviously this is going to be a problem as we are needing our passports to travel. I had also heard but through a friend that if you go to the British Embassy of your sposes country you can have it all sorted in a day but when i contacted the English embassy in Ireland (my wife is Irish).
I spoke to 3 different people, i heard 3 different stories none making much sense and none making my life any easier. There has to be something I can do, I got the visa originally back home in Slouth Africa and it took 10 days why all the red tape over here.
Any help will be realy appreciated
Thanks Shaun

Shaun,

Are you travelling with your wife?

You could contact the UK embassy in Greece and have them issue you a new EEA family permit while you are there. Arrange this in advance if you are going to do it and apply at the start of your visit.

The other thing you might consider doing is to get certified photocopies of your passports and submit those to the home office for your Residence Card application (As far as I know there is no option of applying for another EEA family permit in the UK). You will also need to send a letter indicating that you will later submit your passport when it is time to issue the Residence Card. They will then send you a confirmation letter that you have applied for a Residence Card.

I would also suggest you call the Home Office and see what options they have for issuing a reentry permit to the UK.

You should really have applied for the Residence Card as soon as possible after you arrived in the UK.

[VictoriaS]

You could contact the UK embassy in Greece and have them issue you a new EEA family permit while you are there.

This will only work if you have residency in Greece. It won't work if you are only there on a visit visa.

Victoria

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

This will only work if you have residency in Greece. It won't work if you are only there on a visit visa.

I believe that is incorrect.

For the purposes of EU law, a visit to greece is residency, if even for a day or two. See http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2007/06 ... -question/ for some extracts of the Directive, and UK and Irish law.

You can see the impact of the Directive in the UK's Diplomatic Service Procedures (DSP) http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/servlet/Front ... 6679156328

21.4.1 - Handling and assessing applications for EEA family permits
Under EC law, priority must be given to applications for family permits. Wherever possible a decision should be made at the time it is lodged or after the interview is conducted. Applicants for EEA family permits should not be put into a settlement queue and an interview should be conducted as soon as possible. However, there is no requirement in the Regulations to say that EEA Family Permits must be issued on the day the application is made. Where doubts exist (for example whether applicants are related as claimed) further enquiries may be made, but these should also be given priority.

If the application is made from an EEA Member State:
* Following the case of Akrich, which established that a right of movement for a family member is only derived if they are lawfully resident in an EEA member state, the requirement for an applicant to demonstrate lawful residence has been introduced into the EEA Regulations. Anyone who has a valid visa or entry clearance, and who is abiding by the conditions of that entry clearance, can be considered to be lawfully resident in that Member State. This would normally be in the form of the local equivalent of leave to enter / remain as a family member of a national of the member state in which they are residing. Or, alternatively, an EEA residence card would normally be held if they are the family members of an EEA national residing in a member state of which they are not a national.
* The non-EEA national could equally have entered the country in some other category (visitor, student etc) and would still be considered as lawfully resident in that Member State. For example, an Indian national married to a French national, who had obtained a visa to enter France as either the spouse of the French national or in some other category (as a visitor, student or work permit holder etc), would be considered 'lawfully resident' in France, if, at the time of application, they were abiding fully by the conditions of that visa.
* Those with valid Schengen visas would be considered lawfully resident in all Schengen states. If there are cases where you are not sure if an applicant can be considered as lawfully resident, please refer the details to ECO Support.
...

[VictoriaS]

The UK missions interpret this as meaning that the EEA family member must have residency in the member state where they are applying. So, if Shaun goes to Greece and gets stamped as a residnt rather than a visitor, then he will be fine. If he has his passport only stamped as a visitor, they will not accept the application.

Victoria

[brownbonno]

I will give inputs in two folds.
Firstly, the EU directive article 5(4) specifies that " Where a Union citizen, or a family member who is not a national of a Member State, does not have the necessary travel documents or, if required, the necessary visas, the Member State concerned shall, before turning them back, give such persons every reasonable opportunity to obtain the necessary documents or have them brought to them within a reasonable period of time or to corroborate or prove by other means that they are covered by the right of free movement and residence."
Thus,armed with with your wife,her ID and marriage certificate will allow you entry into the UK(refer to Case law MRAX 2002 for more details).
Secondly,planning your holidays at the tail end of your EEA permit after 6 months of issuance do not portray a responsible plan.
From experience the UK embassy embassy in Greece will require payslips/Bank statement and proof of employment for them to issue another EEA permit.
In either case i wish you good luck.

[yankeegirl]

The UK missions interpret this as meaning that the EEA family member must have residency in the member state where they are applying. So, if Shaun goes to Greece and gets stamped as a residnt rather than a visitor, then he will be fine. If he has his passport only stamped as a visitor, they will not accept the application.

I know this is how they interpret it and I seem to recall reading posts of people that have been refused for this reason. But, I came across this in Chapter 21 of the DSP's.

"The non-EEA national could equally have entered the country in some other category (visitor, student etc) and would still be considered as lawfully resident in that Member State. For example, an Indian national married to a French national, who had obtained a visa to enter France as either the spouse of the French national or in some other category (as a visitor, student or work permit holder etc), would be considered 'lawfully resident' in France, if, at the time of application, they were abiding fully by the conditions of that visa."

This seems to suggest that one could make the application if just visiting, as long as they were abiding by the rules of the visit visa...or am I reading it wrong?

[Docterror]

Yankeegirl, that is a good point.

The thing is I had already talked it over with an embassy official a while back about applying for the EEAFP while still being on visit, albeit in Dubai and he said that the embassy there was allowed to take the application if they had the 'Certificate of application' for the Residence Card and the letter from the HO which was issued that said to apply for the EEAFP if the current EEAFP had expired so that there would not be a problem with the re-entry.

In such a case, they do take up and issue EEAFP even when on a visit visa there. The question is whether the EU states do that same as well? While admittedly such a try may be risky, I would assume that they too should, if all the documents are provided along with the 2 letters from HO and a covering letter explaining the trip.

Anyone attempting such a thing should be ready for all the dangers that it pose as well, like what if there is delay and the application has to be refered back to the HO and the Schengen (or whichever visit visa) expires- flight tickets, hotel booking, job etc? Will the embassy in question see the situation as an exceptional circumstance to accept the visa from a visitor? etc.

But I think that everything taken into consideration, it is 'doable'

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I have added emphasis to my original quotation to highlight the visitor aspect (which is the point of the quote).

Again, if you are going to do this, get in touch with the British embassy now and arrange this in advance with them.