Refused visa & AR applied JR now - viable ? Worth it ?

[ZahraK]

Hi,

I applied for my entrepreneur visa on 30th may 2013 from pakistan.Was interviewed on the 27th June 2013 and received the refusal on 3rd July. I applied for an administrative review in July, which was rejected by the 9th of august.

Background:

- I have lived in the uk since 2004 on a student visa, did my under graduation (business management)from there as well as two masters (accounting and finance; financial economics) from a recognized university.
- my husband who joined me after I got married had been successfully running his telecom business in the country for upto five years till we came back to Pakistan in February 2013.
- my business partner for the visa application was my mother, who has had a substantial management experience by being in the field of education and running a school.
- all the funds were made available in a uk joint account of both the partners at Lloyds TSB.
- my parents own a few properties in London - 3 altogether.
- a valid business plan of chicken fast food was prepared with the help of an accountant and submitted with the application.
- during the interview, both the partners categorically stated on how they expect to run the business, with my mother doing the management part and myself working on the financial aspect of work while helping my mother.

Refusal grounds:

- the ECO found us incapable of running the business with no past experience in running a food outlet.
- found discrepancies in the statement of profit between both partners: I was asked the revenue figure, which I gave - whereas my mum was asked the profit figure, which was different from the figure i gave. But both the figures matched the figures of profit and revenue respectively in the business plan. This aspect was raised in the administrative review.
- the ECO has doubts that we seriously intend to invest money in the uk.
- and feels we did little market research - I clearly stated that I had lived in the proposed area of business since 8 years and did study my competitors and named who my competitors are and that I went through their financial statements prior to arriving at my figures with the help of an accountant.

I have now filed for a judicial review through a solicitor in london 12 days back. However, it would be very helpful, if someone could suggest based on the above details, whether and if they think I do stand a chance of getting through. Moreover, I'm now having doubts and think I should've made a new application as I do not know how much time a jr decision can take ? Could someone tell me how long the entire process of getting a decision can take. I wouldn't want to waste time, if it takes like a year or something.

Moreover, do you guys think i should withdraw my jr and make a fresh application ? Your feedback would be very very helpful.


Refusal:

[top]

Administrative review as you know or should know is for the mistake that an ECO makes when reading through the documents or evidences when there was something existed they missed when taking in account whilst making a decision you identify the mistake later on is under administrative review. (Your case is not under such provision it was if the figures presented by you and your mother you believe matched and can prove they would have misinterpreted when assessing was only a single refusal reason)
Judicial review is a review of the policy and according to policy you apparently had everything at the time application you needed you to claim the points.
In your case and when ECO refuses an application as yours uses their additional power(regardless of points one could claim) as they are empowered to refuse any application if they themselves are not satisfied they mention the reasons in the decision as yours as many.
Everything that you have, and have to say will be heard in appeal if you decide to lodge one your case is not a case of AR or JR neither should you re-apply because reasons still stay accusing you for being inexperienced to run such a business as you plan to undertake one is something can be proved in appeal only.

Thanks…

[RizKCB]

On 30th May 13; you applied for Entp. visa.
On Feb 13 you returned Pakistan after being in UK since 2004.
Your parents seems to be well settled in UK and your mother is your Entp. partner as well.
Your husband was in business as well.

I wonder what kind of mitigating circumstances compelled you not to apply as leave to remain within the UK.

After graduation in business management and two masters in accounting and finance; financial economics does not mean that you are credible candidate for Chicken Shop. On the other side; your mother(your partner) has substantial management experience by being in the field of education and running a school and interested in chicken shop now. If you stated that you have been in such business studies since 8 years and did study your competitors means you could be a good consultant to advise for chicken shop.

Anyways most of the refusal reasons are based on 'Assumptions' by caseworker. If next time in new application; you rectify deficiencies and those rectifications become doubtful then what will you do? At least at this time you know about refusals.

Moreover, if there is something missing in the application For example contract, advertising material etc and refusals are based on the same reasons. Then it could be good idea to re-apply arranging the material. BUT where everything is in place but caseworker has made assumptions during assessment then what will you change in next application? In my personal opinion so far JR is OK.

[ZahraK]

Thank you sooo much for your replies. Very helpful indeed....I'm gradually getting some thoughts cleared up due to the detailed responses you guys gave.


I had to make a rush back to Pakistan due to an immediate family member ailing badly. Both my brothers are settled in the uk with entrepreneur visas too. They got them a year or two before me and back then business plan was not a requirement.

I do not have a right to appeal, just admin review as I applied from outside uk as far as I know. Moreover, as per my knowledge, if admin review is unsuccessful, one can apply for JR if you feel you qualify for it within 90 days. Which I did. If I am wrong please correct me on this.

As for ECO finding us inexperienced for the business, I've reasoned in my case put forward that an entrpreneur is an individual who is willing to take the risk and initiative to set up a business he or she believes in and who has the right knowledge relative to the work he she is doing, experience is not obligatory in the proposed field, it maybe helpful if one has it, but will not guarantee success in any what way.


Could you guys also let me know if possible, how much time would you
reckon a JR would take ? And whether the wait and process is all worth it I. Ur opinion? actually i have all my stuff at my home there, rented place along with our car - so it would help us decide better as to which way to go.

Your

[adi786]

Hi Zahra K

JR can take upto 6-7 months or more as i filed my JR way back in July and still waiting cos when we file JR UKBA needs to submit acknowledgement of services with in 21 days but they will take 3 or extension in total just to consume more time and later they will decide to review the case again if they think your reason of refusal is weak they will do out of court settlement .
and i don't think so it matters whether u open fast food franchise or some IT business it just case worker how he handle the case but they just giving hard time as its a chain of series
- Accountant fees
- Application fees
- Royal Mail postage fees
- Biometrics fee
- then wait and wait
- refusal
-then JR or appeal fees
- Solicitor fees
- Court fees if it goes to oral hearing

At the end court will allow. This forum is big sign of it i hardly read any 1 here said judge refused their application

and then long wait but at the end mostly 90% applicants wins as their application was dealt wrongly by the case worker. Solicitors pay £'000 every year for their membership to the court if UKBA will allow every application who will go to solicitor's?? their business will dry so just sit and relax i hope u will win your case

[RizKCB]

@ZahraK

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/polic ... /apl/apl6/

It is very difficult to mention time limits for JR outcome. If you can afford to pay rent and hold your car; its up to you.
One thing is obvious; at least a couple of months would be required to wait whether to wait for JR or try to go for another application in same or other category.
Mind it; You have built up your immigration history and any further application would trigger it.

[Olasunkanmi]

Hi,

I applied for my entrepreneur visa on 30th may 2013 from pakistan.Was interviewed on the 27th June 2013 and received the refusal on 3rd July. I applied for an administrative review in July, which was rejected by the 9th of august.

Background:

- I have lived in the uk since 2004 on a student visa, did my under graduation (business management)from there as well as two masters (accounting and finance; financial economics) from a recognized university.
- my husband who joined me after I got married had been successfully running his telecom business in the country for upto five years till we came back to Pakistan in February 2013.
- my business partner for the visa application was my mother, who has had a substantial management experience by being in the field of education and running a school.
- all the funds were made available in a uk joint account of both the partners at Lloyds TSB.
- my parents own a few properties in London - 3 altogether.
- a valid business plan of chicken fast food was prepared with the help of an accountant and submitted with the application.
- during the interview, both the partners categorically stated on how they expect to run the business, with my mother doing the management part and myself working on the financial aspect of work while helping my mother.

Refusal grounds:

- the ECO found us incapable of running the business with no past experience in running a food outlet.
- found discrepancies in the statement of profit between both partners: I was asked the revenue figure, which I gave - whereas my mum was asked the profit figure, which was different from the figure i gave. But both the figures matched the figures of profit and revenue respectively in the business plan. This aspect was raised in the administrative review.
- the ECO has doubts that we seriously intend to invest money in the uk.
- and feels we did little market research - I clearly stated that I had lived in the proposed area of business since 8 years and did study my competitors and named who my competitors are and that I went through their financial statements prior to arriving at my figures with the help of an accountant.

I have now filed for a judicial review through a solicitor in london 12 days back. However, it would be very helpful, if someone could suggest based on the above details, whether and if they think I do stand a chance of getting through. Moreover, I'm now having doubts and think I should've made a new application as I do not know how much time a jr decision can take ? Could someone tell me how long the entire process of getting a decision can take. I wouldn't want to waste time, if it takes like a year or something.

Moreover, do you guys think i should withdraw my jr and make a fresh application ? Your feedback would be very very helpful.


Refusal:

@ ZahraK, you are within your legal right to have applied for judicial review within 3months as shown in HO guideline in d link below;
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/polic ... /apl/apl6/


And I guess that your application was for 200k route. Your refusal reasons seem to be base on the fact that you have spent almost 9years in UK and the caseworker assume that you probably want to extend your stay for the 10years long residency and they also seem to have broken that long residency route for you by now.

You guys made a very big mistake by going home to apply without making plan B should in case the visa got refused, you could have just apply for say PHD or something else to complete your 10years route without going back.

The caseworker decision can be easily overturn by a judge if you and your mum can prepare your defence robustly to show the mistakes of the caseworker.

Anybody with managerial skills can run a fast food outlet, but the caseworkers as they always do just gave silly refusal reasons.

The only problem now is that you have to be patient with the JR or better still you can make a fresh application while your JR is on-going and see if you will be lucky this time as the caseworkers just do what they like now.

[ZahraK]

Thank you for the responses. However, could you elaborate on what you mentioned about making a fresh application while the JR is ongoing. For I thought one has to withdraw the JR in order to make a new application or else the application becomes void.

[ZahraK]

Hi, just to update that my judicial review was refused yesterday. Could any of you guide me as to whether you recommend me making a fresh application ? Will my previous refusal in any way affect the decision of my new application ? Moreover, can I change my business plan or would it be a good idea to stick to the old one ?

[usemobile]

Hi, just to update that my judicial review was refused yesterday. Could any of you guide me as to whether you recommend me making a fresh application ? Will my previous refusal in any way affect the decision of my new application ? Moreover, can I change my business plan or would it be a good idea to stick to the old one ?

Sorry for the news...

We are in the same situation Just applied for AR and waiting for you results and we also submitted business plan as pizza shop.

can please your email and i would like know more on JR matter

RK

[usemobile]

Hi, just to update that my judicial review was refused yesterday. Could any of you guide me as to whether you recommend me making a fresh application ? Will my previous refusal in any way affect the decision of my new application ? Moreover, can I change my business plan or would it be a good idea to stick to the old one ?

One more thing

DID you sent the Pre Action Protocol letter ?

RK