Irish Citizen (UK resident ) Married To South American

[Tom Owens]

I am Irish but living in the UK since 1987. My wife is Colombian. We got married on 21 December 2002.

Because we married after 30 November 2001, my wife can not apply for an Irish passport despite the fact that we will be married 5 years this December.

Because Ireland and the UK have not signed up to Schengen, we (well my wife that is) have to apply for schengen visas all the time we travel to the EU. Our life is wasted in embassy queues where most of the officials are rude to a point that would be unacceptable in a commercial enterprise.

Does anybody have any thoughts about what we can do about this? Is there any official in Ireland's department of Justice we could speak to about this? The situation is extremely tedious for us and very restrictive. We both have professional jobs in London and it's not like we are a pair of bandits trying to sneak around the EU but yet that is just how we are made to feel quite often.

Tom

[archigabe]

How long has she been in the Uk?Is it possible for her to apply for a UK passport through the naturalisation process? Or you could apply for a passport first and she would become eligible for one through you.Try to post on the Uk forum for their opinions.

[Tom Owens]

Thank you for this response.

She moved to UK in April 2003 as a family member of an EU citizen i.e. me. The UK Home Office gave her a 1 year visa. This was subsequently renewed to a 5 year visa until March 2009 and then presumably she will have Indefinite Leave to Remain.

Whilst I have been living in the UK since 1987, my resident permit only began when she arrived in April 2003. I do not know what procedure I need to follow to obtain a UK passport? Can I apply now? Must I wait?

Tom

[yankeegirl]

I think your wife will be able to naturalize 1 year after obtaining permanent residence.

I'm not an expert but i would think you qualify for applying now, seeing as you have lived in the UK for more than 5 years.

[JAJ]

Whilst I have been living in the UK since 1987, my resident permit only began when she arrived in April 2003. I do not know what procedure I need to follow to obtain a UK passport? Can I apply now? Must I wait?

If you are an Irish citizen in the UK you are deemed to have been a permanent resident since arrival (ie, since 1987).

Just apply for naturalisation on that basis. I would not recommend using your EEA resident permit (why on earth did you apply for one? - you could have sponsored under UK rules) as this will only confuse things.

http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/applying/nationality/

You'll find nothing in the naturalisation form/guide about the special status of Irish citizens, but it is a genuine policy:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=12262

You may want to make reference to this in your application (in a covering letter).

Your wife should become a Permanent Resident in April 2008. If you have become a British citizen by then, she will immediately be eligible for British citizenship by naturalisation herself.

Any children born in the UK? - or any children planned?

[Tom Owens]

Thank you very much for this heartening response.

To answer your questions in order:

Why did I apply to become a UK resident?

Ans: I too found it presposterous but I think it was the UK embassy in Bogota who insisted I did and that way my wife came in under EU rules i.e. I as an EU citizen was entitled to have my wife working alongside me here in the UK. We were married in Bogota and I obtained a special fiance visa to marry her in Bogota/Colombia.

Do we plan to have kids?

Yes, we hope to. We have just bought a house and now we have the space at long last!

A question for you...

The IND said that my wife must let her current visa rnearly run its full course i.e. up to February 2009 (1 month short of the expiry date of 9 March 2009) before she could apply for Indefinite Leave to Remain . Is this true? I repeat, she arrived in April 2003 was granted a 1 year visa and then a further 5 year visa. In other words, she would HAVE to be here almost 6 years before being allowed to apply for Indefinite Leave to Remain according to the IND official I spoke to.

A second question for you...

As Irish, I have to do the citizenship test presumably but do you know whether it takes long after that for me to get UK citizenship?

A third question for you..

Will I have to give up my Irish citizenship if I become British?

Thanks again,

Tom

[JAJ]

Ans: I too found it presposterous but I think it was the UK embassy in Bogota who insisted I did and that way my wife came in under EU rules i.e. I as an EU citizen was entitled to have my wife working alongside me here in the UK. We were married in Bogota and I obtained a special fiance visa to marry her in Bogota/Colombia

What you were told is completely wrong. Go to http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk then click on "More about UK Visas" (at the side) then click on the link "Diplomatic Service Procedures - Entry Clearance" and go to section 21.4.7 and you will read:

"Dual nationals, Irish nationals or EEA nationals holding settled status may choose to bring their family members to the UK either on an EEA family permit or via the Immigration Rules.

If the applicants choose to be treated under EC law they should be issued with an EEA family permit free of charge. If they choose to come under the Immigration Rules, they must pay the appropriate entry clearance application fee.

In addition, if the dual national / Irish or EEA national holding settled status chooses to bring his/her family members under EC law, the family members would not be entitled to apply for settled status until they had resided with the Irish / Dual or EEA national in the UK for five years. However, if they choose to come under the Immigration Rules they would be entitled to apply for settled status after two years.

Do we plan to have kids?

Yes, we hope to. We have just bought a house and now we have the space at long last!

As a child of an Irish citizen (settled parent), any UK-born child you have will be a British citizen by birth. Of course if you have naturalised by then it will be simpler.

Child will also be an Irish citizen by descent, assuming you were born in Ireland. As for Colombian citizenship - child may also have that, but do check whether that is likely to cause issues later in life (eg military service).

The IND said that my wife must let her current visa rnearly run its full course i.e. up to February 2009 (1 month short of the expiry date of 9 March 2009) before she could apply for Indefinite Leave to Remain . Is this true? I repeat, she arrived in April 2003 was granted a 1 year visa and then a further 5 year visa. In other words, she would HAVE to be here almost 6 years before being allowed to apply for Indefinite Leave to Remain according to the IND official I spoke to.

Also appears to be dead wrong. Under the rules in place from 30 April 2006, your wife automatically gets Permanent Residence after 5 years accompanying you "exercising EEA Treaty Rights".

You can browse the Home Office policy instructions at:
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/documents/ecis/

She can apply for a stamp in her passport evidencing Permanent Residence, but has no need to do this. It will be simpler to go straight for naturalisation if you are a British citizen by then (if you're British, she doesn't have to wait an extra year).

As Irish, I have to do the citizenship test presumably but do you know whether it takes long after that for me to get UK citizenship?

Information at:
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/applying/nationality/ (bottom of page) shows the naturalisation processing time at 2-3 months. Add an extra month or two for your citizenship ceremony.

When you apply for naturalisation bear in mind the following:

- you need to make sure you were in the UK exactly 5 years previously. For example, if you spent September 2002 on vacation in France you can apply in August 2007 or October 2007, but not September 2007.

- use of the Nationality Checking Service is recommended although they may not be aware of the special situation for Irish citizens in Britain. Bring at least 6 years evidence of working in the UK if you try this route.

- if you do make a postal application, a solicitor can certify copies of all pages of your passport(s) covering the 5 year period. This avoids being without your passport during processing

- bear in mind that the Life in the UK Test doesn't have an expiry date on a pass. Your wife won't need it for Permanent Residence but will need it for naturalisation, so maybe you should study for it together?

A third question for you..

Will I have to give up my Irish citizenship if I become British?

No.

[Tom Owens]

Once again, thank you for all this. It is very helpful and I cross my fingers that in April 2008 my wife can naturalise because embassy queues are becoming a giant pain. At last, I think I can see some light at the end of the tunnell.

Question 1: You mention in a previous message that "you could have sponsored under UK rules". I was just curious what you meant by this?
Do you mean, my wife could have obtained a 2 year visa from the British embassy in Bogota and then applied for ILR after the 2 years were up and after after a further year then naturalise?

Question 2: It is with regard to my evidence that I have been working in the UK for the last 6 years. I have been a teacher at the same school for the last 5 years and was self employed for two years prior to that. I am concerned that I do not have continuous pay slips going back for the 6 years, although I can show my work contract and get a letter from the school presumably vouching for the last 5 years. For the self employed period before that (i.e. before August 2002), my life was a bit messy. I paid NI but no taxes as my website business at the time made no income. Can you suggest what evidence might be acceptable? From 1988-96 I worked as an economist in London (which I think I could prove easily enough) with a large recognised firm but presumably that is too far back to impress the IND who want to know about the last 5/6 years?

I have owned a property in London since 1992 and paid local council tax all that time as well. I have paid NI continuously since 1988 perhaps 1987 even but I would need to ask the NI office perhaps to attest to this? My wife and I jointly own our house in London since February 2007. I don't know whether that is relevant.

I also have noted that on the IND website they describe the residency requirement as follows:

3. The residential requirements are that:

a. the person applying was in the United Kingdom (see Note3) at the beginning of the five-year period that ended on the date the application is received;

b. in the five-year period, he or she was not outside the United Kingdom for more than 450 days (see Note 4)

c. in the last twelve months of that five-year period, he or she was not outside the United Kingdom for more than 90 days;

d. in the last 12 months of that five-year period, his or her stay in the United Kingdom was not subject to any time limit under the immigration laws (see Note 5); and

e. he or she was not at any time in that five-year period, in the United Kingdom in breach of the immigration laws.

Special circumstances

4. Everyone who applies (unless covered by paragraph 5 below) must be free from any time restriction under the immigration laws when the application is received. They must also meet the first of the requirements described in paragraph 3. But the Home Secretary may make an exception to the other requirements (including the one in Note 4 about time which does not count) if he thinks that there are special circumstances. If you do not meet the requirements, but you believe that there are special circumstances in your case, you should explain them when you apply.

My Final Question

It is para (d) above that concerns me. Won't the IND say that my wife has 2 years to run on her current visa until March 2009. i.e. she has a time limit?


Tom

[limey]

Tom: I applied for residence in the UK as an Irish citizen using EEA3. This application is ongoing. During this time I was also self-employed for some of the time, so they asked for further documents proving this and specifically asked for correspondence/documents from Inland Revenue and other government departments proving my self-employment. So I sent them along with some proof of payment processing from my accountancy (Managed Service Company).

Your proof of NI payments could also be used.

[JAJ]

Tom: I applied for residence in the UK as an Irish citizen using EEA3. This application is ongoing.

He is asking about naturalisation, not EEA3.

And as you have already been informed, you have no legal basis to apply for EEA3 as you are also a British citizen.

[JAJ]

Question 1: You mention in a previous message that "you could have sponsored under UK rules". I was just curious what you meant by this?
Do you mean, my wife could have obtained a 2 year visa from the British embassy in Bogota and then applied for ILR after the 2 years were up and after after a further year then naturalise?

She could have got ILR after 2 years. But she still would have had to wait 5 years to naturalise as you are not a British citizen.

Of course, if you had naturalised in the meantime, then yes, she could have been British about mid 2006.

So she can only naturalise in April 2008 if you have your British citizenship certificate by then.

Question 2: It is with regard to my evidence that I have been working in the UK for the last 6 years. I have been a teacher at the same school for the last 5 years and was self employed for two years prior to that. I am concerned that I do not have continuous pay slips going back for the 6 years, although I can show my work contract and get a letter from the school presumably vouching for the last 5 years. For the self employed period before that (i.e. before August 2002), my life was a bit messy. I paid NI but no taxes as my website business at the time made no income. Can you suggest what evidence might be acceptable? From 1988-96 I worked as an economist in London (which I think I could prove easily enough) with a large recognised firm but presumably that is too far back to impress the IND who want to know about the last 5/6 years?

Remember - you only need to prove the last 5 years. The only reason you could be asked for 6 years is if someone is clueless at the Nationality Checking Service (NCS).

You can avoid the NCS by applying by post.

I have owned a property in London since 1992 and paid local council tax all that time as well. I have paid NI continuously since 1988 perhaps 1987 even but I would need to ask the NI office perhaps to attest to this? My wife and I jointly own our house in London since February 2007. I don't know whether that is relevant.

Rather than waiting ages to get copies of such documentation, if you have evidence of the 5 years residence, just make a postal application now.

I also have noted that on the IND website they describe the residency requirement as follows:

3. The residential requirements are that:

a. the person applying was in the United Kingdom (see Note3) at the beginning of the five-year period that ended on the date the application is received;

b. in the five-year period, he or she was not outside the United Kingdom for more than 450 days (see Note 4)

c. in the last twelve months of that five-year period, he or she was not outside the United Kingdom for more than 90 days;

d. in the last 12 months of that five-year period, his or her stay in the United Kingdom was not subject to any time limit under the immigration laws (see Note 5); and

e. he or she was not at any time in that five-year period, in the United Kingdom in breach of the immigration laws.

Special circumstances



It is para (d) above that concerns me. Won't the IND say that my wife has 2 years to run on her current visa until March 2009. i.e. she has a time limit?

You need to read on in much more detail. Firstly, spouses of British citizens have a 3 year residence requirement.

And secondly, if you download the guide to naturalisation it makes it clear that after 5 years in the UK as a family member of an EEA national exercising Treaty Rights, permanent residence is automatic.

You need to get used to the idea that many IND staff give out shockingly bad advice.

[Tom Owens]

Once again, this has been fantastically helpful and I really appreciate such clear advice.

I intend to contact the IND tomorrow to obtain the form to begin the citizenship for myself.

Can I ask you the following?

1) Whether there is a special form I should request?

2) I have booked a citizenship test for 8 August. Presumably, I need to enclose this certificate with my application? Is this essential or can the test wait until I have sent in my application?

3) I will provide them a cover letter outlining and enclosing:

a) A contract showing that I have been a teacher at a London school since August 2002. (I am not sure I have a very comprehensive set of payslips and bank statements supporting this- is this very important?) My school will presumably provide whatever corroboration the IND is likely to request.

4) I need to post the IND a cheque presumably? A few hundred quid I think?

5) Because I am a regular traveller, I will photo-copy ALL the pages in my Irish passport and have them certified. Must it be a solicitor? or can it be a fellow teacher? or bank manager? And enclose them.

6) Perhaps a stamped and addressed special delivery envelope to my address for them to post me my new UK Naturalisation certificate or UK passport? Too presumtuous perhaps?

7) If I send all this off by the end of next week, could I hope to have a UK passport by December/January possibly? In any case, my deadline is for April 2008 when my wife will have served her 5 years.

8)Is there anything else, I should be considering?


Once again, I would like to thank you for what has been the clearest, most patient, and most encouraging advice that my wife Sandra and I have received on all this so far.

Tom

[JAJ]

1) Whether there is a special form I should request?

You can download form and guide AN from this site.
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/applyi ... dguidance/

2) I have booked a citizenship test for 8 August. Presumably, I need to enclose this certificate with my application? Is this essential or can the test wait until I have sent in my application?

You must enclose a test pass certificate with your application (keep a copy for yourself).

Are you sure that a week is enough to cover the study material? The test is not hard but just because you have been in the UK 20 years doesn't in itself mean you can pass without any work.

3) I will provide them a cover letter outlining and enclosing:

a) A contract showing that I have been a teacher at a London school since August 2002. (I am not sure I have a very comprehensive set of payslips and bank statements supporting this- is this very important?) My school will presumably provide whatever corroboration the IND is likely to request.

You don't need a stack of evidence a few inches thick, but you do a little more detail proving your residence in the UK. Remember that you want a Home Office caseworker who does not know you to be able to make an immediate decision without asking for more information.

Your contract of employment is a good start, but you should add information like:
- P60s
- if you are registered as a teacher, proof you have had this status continuously since X date
- your GB driving licence
- a selection of bank statements showing salary coming in and activity in the UK covering the 5 year period (plus say 2-3 years before that). You don't need to cover every month, just say 1-2 months per year.
- utility bills, Council Tax etc?

Ask the school for a letter now, even if you don't send it with your application, as it will avoid a delay later on if they need more information.

Ditto regarding getting hold of a copy of your records from the Inland Revenue and National Insurance.

4) I need to post the IND a cheque presumably? A few hundred quid I think?

It's gone up (a lot) recently. Now GBP655:
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/6353/1 ... stable.pdf

It was only GBP268 before 1 April. The only consolation is that processing times are much less than they used to be, a few months instead of the 2 years or so typical through much of the 1990s.

5) Because I am a regular traveller, I will photo-copy ALL the pages in my Irish passport and have them certified. Must it be a solicitor?

A solicitor. You will find that charges for this vary greatly - shop around.

6) Perhaps a stamped and addressed special delivery envelope to my address for them to post me my new UK Naturalisation certificate or UK passport?

Absolutely not!

You will become a British citizen when you attend a citizenship ceremony and take an oath of allegiance to the Queen and a Pledge to the United Kingdom.

You will receive your naturalisation certificate at the ceremony. Your local authority will organise this, eg in Wandsworth:
http://www.wandsworth.gov.uk/Home/Commu ... efault.htm

Application for a British passport comes after you become a British citizen. Usually 10 days or so. http://www.passports.gov.uk

7) If I send all this off by the end of next week, could I hope to have a UK passport by December/January possibly? In any case, my deadline is for April 2008 when my wife will have served her 5 years.

8)Is there anything else, I should be considering?

With current processing times, it's quite feasible to be British in this timescale.

It is recommended to peruse Chapter 18 of the Home Office Nationality Instructions if you need more information about the naturalisation process.
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/documents/nichapter18/

[Tom Owens]

Thank you very much again.

I will get cracking on this straight away and report back occasionally to this message board.

Tom

P.S. £655 eh! Sandra (my wife) can buy me a pint of guinness for this.

[Christophe]

Thank you very much again.

I will get cracking on this straight away and report back occasionally to this message board.

Tom

P.S. £655 eh! Sandra (my wife) can buy me a pint of guinness for this.

Yes, do let us know how you get on!

(And PS: £655 will buy a lot of pints of Guinness, even at today's prices!)

[winna]

Hi,

I am in a similar situation. I am married to an Irish citizen. I came into the UK to live with my Irish boyfriend on a multiple visiting visa (valid for up to 3 years from July 2003 - August 2006).

I married my Irish husband who had been living in the UK for 15 years in 2004 and converted to an non EEA residence permit in August 2004 valid till 2009.

My husband is fed up with the constant application for Irish and schengen visas whenever we have to travel and is wondering if him getting British nationality would hasten my getting a British passport.

From your very clear explanations I can see that it might be possible. My question is; i came into the UK July 2003 on a visit visa date stamped in my passport, can I claim this as the start of my residency here or would it be August 2004 the start of my residence permit. I realise this could make all the difference. Apart from the stamp on the visiting visa I have no other proof I can lay my hands on to prove that I have been here since 2003 (the period before my residency). I had never been illegal or overstayed on the 180days requirement.

Any clarification you can give would be most appreciated.

Thanks

[JAJ]

Hi,

I am in a similar situation. I am married to an Irish citizen. I came into the UK to live with my Irish boyfriend on a multiple visiting visa (valid for up to 3 years from July 2003 - August 2006).

How did you manage to "live" in the United Kingdom on a visitor visa?

I married my Irish husband who had been living in the UK for 15 years in 2004 and converted to an non EEA residence permit in August 2004 valid till 2009.

My husband is fed up with the constant application for Irish and schengen visas whenever we have to travel and is wondering if him getting British nationality would hasten my getting a British passport.

Based on the information you give, you will become a Permanent Resident in August 2009.

If at that point your husband is a naturalised British citizen you can immediately apply for British citizenship yourself. If he chooses not to become British, you would have to wait another year (ie to August 2010).

If your husband becomes British sooner, then as soon as he is British you can bypass the need for Permanent Resident status by lodging your naturalisation application at the British Embassy in Dublin (or in your home country).

This is known as the "ppron method" and takes advantage of a loophole in the British Nationality Act. However it demands a lot from the applicant in terms of intellectual ability (to understand the law clearly, which most officials you speak to will get confused) plus a lot of persistence.
http://www.ukresident.com/forums/index. ... opic=37084

[Tom Owens]

JAJ,

It's me again.

I have begun filling out the AN Form and just a few things:

Firstly, yes you were correct, I see that I was out of the UK in August 2002 so I need to apply in September.

The questions:

The First Question

1) Is there a maximum number of days, one can be outside the UK in any of those 5 years? For example, if one exceeds 90 days in one year, does that then contravene the residency requirement?

I ask because, my wife in her first year worked as an auditor for Smurfit an Irish multinational. From Monday to Friday she was often working at their plants in Spain, Ireland and Denmmark. She returned every week-end to the UK but I am concerned that the IND will say she was outside the UK alot of the time?

The Second Question

I am a bit confused about when my wife can apply to naturalise. If I obtain the UK passport by February 2008, can my wife apply for naturalisation straight away having been 4 years and 10 months in the UK or must she wait until April when the 5 years have expired?

Thanks again,

Tom

[JAJ]

1) Is there a maximum number of days, one can be outside the UK in any of those 5 years? For example, if one exceeds 90 days in one year, does that then contravene the residency requirement?

The general rule is no more than 450 days in the 5 years, and 90 days in the final year. There is some leeway on these - you need to take a look at Annex B to Chapter 18 of the Nationality Instructions (linked earlier in the thread) to know more. There may be some detail in the guide.

Bear in mind that your wife's absences don't affect your eligibility and that once you are a British citizen she will be able to apply under the 3 year eligibility.

I am a bit confused about when my wife can apply to naturalise. If I obtain the UK passport by February 2008, can my wife apply for naturalisation straight away having been 4 years and 10 months in the UK or must she wait until April when the 5 years have expired?

She would only be able to apply once she has Permanent Residence, and she doesn't get this until April, so she needs to wait until then.

Even though the naturalisation waiting period is only 3 years, she still has to wait until the point where she gets Permanent Residence.

[Tom Owens]

Dear JAJ,

Once again, I am coming to you for some advice.

I have now obtained the UK Citizenship Certificate. You were correct, the test is failable.

So, I am putting together my bundle for the Home Office which will include:

1. Photo-copies of all the pages of my Irish passport. These have to be certified by a solicitor.

Question 1: Do you have any idea what would be a reasonable charge for this service? We live in Fulham, South West London.

2. A copy (non certified) of my Irish birth certificate. (I do not have the original).

Question 2: Perhaps this is redundant therefore?

3. Original P-60's going back 6 years.

4. My contract of employment with my school going back to August 2001. (I thought I started in August 2002 but no it was 2001!)

5. My Pass notification for Life in the UK

6. The cheque (£655) and payment slip.

7. The completed form with two referees etc.

Question 3: Should I include other documents such as proof of home ownership?

8. A cover letter which will refer to the documents that I am enclosing.

Question 4: Should the cover letter outline my case for naturalisation?


Thank you again for all your help.

Tom

[JAJ]

Dear JAJ,

Once again, I am coming to you for some advice.

I have now obtained the UK Citizenship Certificate. You were correct, the test is failable.

So, I am putting together my bundle for the Home Office which will include:

1. Photo-copies of all the pages of my Irish passport. These have to be certified by a solicitor.

Question 1: Do you have any idea what would be a reasonable charge for this service? We live in Fulham, South West London.

2. A copy (non certified) of my Irish birth certificate. (I do not have the original).

Question 2: Perhaps this is redundant therefore?

3. Original P-60's going back 6 years.

4. My contract of employment with my school going back to August 2001. (I thought I started in August 2002 but no it was 2001!)

5. My Pass notification for Life in the UK

6. The cheque (£655) and payment slip.

7. The completed form with two referees etc.

Question 3: Should I include other documents such as proof of home ownership?

8. A cover letter which will refer to the documents that I am enclosing.

Question 4: Should the cover letter outline my case for naturalisation?

1. Don't know. Shop around.

2. According to the guide, your passport should be enough proof of identity. But it's not a good idea to be without an official copy of your birth certificate - you should send off for one soonest.

3. Include anything that helps to show you have been resident in the UK for at least 6 years.

4. I don't think so. In your case, you have enough evidence to apply under the general rules for EEA citizens and no need to mention the special case for Irish citizens. If you had just arrived 5 years ago it would be different.

Bear in mind that although naturalisation is technically "discretionary" it is not refused to those meeting the statutory requirements without a very good reason.

Keep a copy of your Life in the UK Test pass certificate.

And use a secure method to send the application to the Home Office, one that will also provide proof of delivery.

Even though your evidence goes back to August 2001, if you were physically outside the UK in August 2002, you can't apply until the 5th anniversary of when you return.

[Tom Owens]

Dear JAJ,

Just reporting back:

My local solicitor wants £25 to stamp the 17 photo-copied pages of my Irish passport. I was going to run with that and notshop further unless you think it is clearly exorbitant? The office is nearby and I am busy etc.so £25 seems okayish.

Incidentally, you might just want to know from your own curiousity the following: Irish passport holders have to obtain a visa for Colombia PRIOR to arrival. Other EU citizens do not. This is because the IRA had developed links with Colombia's FARC and Colombia brought in a special arrangement for Irish citizens as a result. You are unlikely to have many Irish punters wanting to ask you about entering Colombia but it is just one of those curious developments that crop up from time to time. My passport is loaded with cumbersome Colombian visas which of course in themselves attracts suspicion even when I pass through Dublin airport on my trips to Ireland. So the benefits of my applying for a UK passport are not exclusively for my wife.

Tom

[Tom Owens]

Dear JAJ,

I just wanted to let you know that the Home Office wrote to me on 2 October saying that my application has been successful. So it took just over 3 weeks for them to make a decision. Both Sandra (my wife) and I are very much indebted to you for your advice. I had been advised over a year ago directly by someone in the Home Office ago that I would have to go through a formal procedure of 5 years with a resident permit them a further year with Indefinite Leave to Remain before I could apply. So once again, a big thank you!

I now have to wait for an invite to the citizenship ceremony. A question:

Would you know how long it normally takes to receive the UK passport after this ceremony?

The reason I ask is that I have to travel to Colombia on 15 December for Christmas and New Year and if I have a UK passport I will not need to apply to the Colombian embassy here in London for a visa. As I mentioned, Irish passport holders need to get a visa to travel to Colombia and while it will be my 7th time visiting Colombia, it is not unusual for the Colombian consulate to take over 2 weeks to process my visa. So it would be nice to avoid all that if poosible.

Tom

[JAJ]

Dear JAJ,

I just wanted to let you know that the Home Office wrote to me on 2 October saying that my application has been successful. So it took just over 3 weeks for them to make a decision. Both Sandra (my wife) and I are very much indebted to you for your advice. I had been advised over a year ago directly by someone in the Home Office ago that I would have to go through a formal procedure of 5 years with a resident permit them a further year with Indefinite Leave to Remain before I could apply. So once again, a big thank you!

I now have to wait for an invite to the citizenship ceremony. A question:

Would you know how long it normally takes to receive the UK passport after this ceremony?

The reason I ask is that I have to travel to Colombia on 15 December for Christmas and New Year and if I have a UK passport I will not need to apply to the Colombian embassy here in London for a visa. As I mentioned, Irish passport holders need to get a visa to travel to Colombia and while it will be my 7th time visiting Colombia, it is not unusual for the Colombian consulate to take over 2 weeks to process my visa. So it would be nice to avoid all that if poosible.

Tom

Congratulations. Bear in mind that you do not become a British citizen until you attend the ceremony.

You normally have to attend a ceremony within 90 days (your approval can be cancelled if you don't) and 4-6 weeks is the norm. You should get an invitation from your council pretty soon, if you don't, then you need to follow up.

For a British passport, visit http://www.passports.gov.uk but this may be more challenging ... recent changes now mean that all first time adult passport applicants need to be interviewed and the processing time is longer.

So I would assume at this point that although you should be a British citizen by mid-December, you will not necessarily have a British passport.

Before you send off your Irish passport to the Colombian Embassy, check to see whether you will be expected to bring it to the citizenship ceremony.

[Tom Owens]

Dear JaJ,

Just an update so that future readers can follow the hoops of the application process.

I received the invitation to the citizenship ceremony within 6 weeks of my application for citizenship. This ceremony held fortnightly on Wednesdays (as far as Fulham and Hammersmith are concerned) is free (i.e. included in the £655) but as I can't take Wednesdays off from my school I asked for an individual ceremony which they provided at very short notice i.e. within 48 hours of my telephone request and charged a further £100. It took 15 minutes. I did NOT need to bring a passport to the ceremony rather a photo ID eg my UK driver's licence.

The next hoop (as you know) is applying for the actual UK passport. This can take up to 6 weeks to arrive and I must enclose my current Irish passport. A relatively small problem at this point in time is that I can not be without my current Irish passport for 6 weeks. I have requested that I send it to them and they send it back quickly while my application for a UK passport is being processed but they have refused. I find this a bit unfair. I travel abroad in December and again in February. So I need to wait until the end of February before I can apply for the UK passport. I am not greatly inconvenienced by this but I am surprised that the UK Passport office can't simply view my Irish passport and post it back to me or allow me to send a certified copy.

My Colombian wife can begin her application for UK citizenship in April and hopefully by then I will have been posted my UK passport if I apply for it in late February. In the meantime we are off to Colombia in December/January. (Small detail - Colombia no longer requires a visa from Irish citizens, so one small headache out of the way).

Sorry about all this detail but I just want any readers to know the hoops if they find themselves in a similar position as we did. Thank you again JAJ for all your help. Your advice has been spot on.