EEA2 Surinder Singh 3 Month Success Story

[st2447]

Hi, thanks for the detailed OP. I have a couple of questions for anyone who might be able to help:

1) When entering Ireland, do you suggest specifically requesting a 90 day stamp for the non-EU national? Is it worth explaining what you are trying to do (find property, register tenancy, apply Residence)

2) If the Non-EU spouse is only granted 30 day stamp at the border, what are the ramifications? Is it possible to get PRTB (housing) registration letter in that period (therefore allowing Garda registration). If not would spouse need to leave the country to reapply.

3) Is applying for a Family Permit after several months via the EU1 form the "final" step? I thought this form had a different name (VF something or other)

Many thanks.

1. I was asked if I was only here for a few weeks before I returned to the UK, i told them I was intending to work in Ireland. They didn't ask my non EEA spouse anything. Yes, I would suggest that you ask for a 90 day stamp, I didn't ask for it.

2. There are no ramifications. If you receive a 30 day stamp, then you should apply for a EU1 with whatever documents you have before the 30 days are up and the INIS will reply that they have received your application and will request the missing documents. Someone I know did this and also contacted the Guarda who said as long as the INIS have got your EU1 application then you are fine.

3. The EEA Family Permit is the final step before returning to the UK. You don't need a EU1 to apply for a Family permit as they reasses if you have been excercining treaty rights in Ireland. Me and my spouse returned to the UK without a Family Permit.
I think the final step is obtaining a EEA2 Card in the UK.

I was also wondering the same thing

currently trying to gather information about the Irish entry visa for my indonesian partner do you get 90 days? also would a previous refusal to uk vistor visa present issues getting irish entry visa?

and what paper work do you have to inc in the application? is marriage document enough?

A previous UK visa refusal will have no effect on a Directive 2004/38/EC visa. Its best to declare anyway though. Also if the refusal was for a suspected sham marriage then I would address them concerns before applying. If you have proof that you have visited your Indonesian partner , i.e. entry visas, then that would help along with the marriage certificate.

[Cameron326]

3. The EEA Family Permit is the final step before returning to the UK. You don't need a EU1 to apply for a Family permit as they reasses if you have been excercining treaty rights in Ireland. Me and my spouse returned to the UK without a Family Permit.
I think the final step is obtaining a EEA2 Card in the UK.

Thanks so much for the reply, but I wonder if you could just clarify the 3rd point above.

1) I was under the impression that after EU1 has been processed, that the Non- EU spouse would need to complete a form known as VAF5 in order to enter the UK. Is this the same thing as the EEA Family Permit?

2) If the EU1 form isn't necessary to apply for the EEA Family Permit what is the point of EU1? Simply a legal requirement of the nonEU spouse staying longer than 3 months in Ireland?

3) Do you think it is generally possible to return to the UK without the Family Permit? Or were there special circumstances in your case?

Thanks again!

[Cameron326]

So the EEA Family Permit (VAF5) form is the crunch time to prove the "centre of life" stuff.

The EU1 application (just after arrival in Ireland) and EEA2 Application for Residence Card (when already back in the UK) should just be formalities. Is that right?

[robsters]

thanks for the advice, it was before we got married, was lack of funds and paper work was there reasons, we have the extra paper work now, so its best to declare the refusal then

[st2447]

3. The EEA Family Permit is the final step before returning to the UK. You don't need a EU1 to apply for a Family permit as they reasses if you have been excercining treaty rights in Ireland. Me and my spouse returned to the UK without a Family Permit.
I think the final step is obtaining a EEA2 Card in the UK.

Thanks so much for the reply, but I wonder if you could just clarify the 3rd point above.

1) I was under the impression that after EU1 has been processed, that the Non- EU spouse would need to complete a form known as VAF5 in order to enter the UK. Is this the same thing as the EEA Family Permit?

2) If the EU1 form isn't necessary to apply for the EEA Family Permit what is the point of EU1? Simply a legal requirement of the nonEU spouse staying longer than 3 months in Ireland?

3) Do you think it is generally possible to return to the UK without the Family Permit? Or were there special circumstances in your case?

Thanks again!

1/2. There is no link between an EU1 and a Family Permit. The Home office reassess if you have exercised treaty rights. The EU1 form is to apply for a residence card for your non EEA spouse to legally remain in Ireland after the 30 or 90 days are up.

3. Yes, in my original post, under 16. I have linked to a FOI request and email regarding returning from the ROI without a family permit. There were no special circumstances in my case.

The advantage of only applying for a EEA2 over a Family Permit are that you have a right of appeal in the UK. A Family Permit is the safer option if you are in doubt that you may be refused and would like to avoid the hassle of an appeal in the UK

[Cameron326]

Thanks so much for all the good info. It's really invaluable to me.

Re: necessity of getting Family Permit before returning to UK from the ROI:

Please correct me if I'm wrong - Is what you are saying that if you HAVE obtained a Family Permit on arrival in the UK, and then your application for a Resident Card is denied first time - then you can't appeal the decision. My non-EU spouse would have to leave the UK after several months?

Basically, we'd be screwed in terms of getting permanent residence for my non-EU spouse in the UK as we couldnt appeal the EEA2 UK Resident Card (Surrinder Singh route) refusal if we got the EA Family Permit before leaving Ireland?

To be honest, I'm a little confused. I want my non-EU spouse to be granted 5 year residence in the UK, but the idea of No Appeal in the UK following a Surrinder Singh route refusal sounds scary! Is securing the EA Family permit in Ireland THEN applying 5 year Resident Card in UK still overall the safest most sensible route in your opinion?


I'd rather have an avenue of appeal open in the UK given how open to interpretation the meeting requiremetns of Surrinder Singh is with UK immigration.

ONE LAST QUESTION:
Our plan is to leave China (with my non-EU Spouse) to head to the UK to visit family for a couple of weeks - and then on to the ROI. Taking this route to Ireland do you think my spouse should secure an Irish visa in addition to UK visa before leaving China - or can she just rely on the lack of border guards + EU directives to get into ROI from London (not shether arriving by plane or ferry yet).
Or is that an unnecessary risk/hassle and would be better to secure a ROI visa before leaving China.

Thanks again for your help.

[Cameron326]

If you think it advisable for my spouse to get both UK and ROI visas, which do you think she should apply for first? (She has been granted many UK visit visas in the past). Was thinking of getting UK one first. Is that right do you think?

[st2447]

Thanks so much for all the good info. It's really invaluable to me.

Re: necessity of getting Family Permit before returning to UK from the ROI:

Please correct me if I'm wrong - Is what you are saying that if you HAVE obtained a Family Permit on arrival in the UK, and then your application for a Resident Card is denied first time - then you can't appeal the decision. My non-EU spouse would have to leave the UK after several months?

Basically, we'd be screwed in terms of getting permanent residence for my non-EU spouse in the UK as we couldnt appeal the EEA2 UK Resident Card (Surrinder Singh route) refusal if we got the EA Family Permit before leaving Ireland?

To be honest, I'm a little confused. I want my non-EU spouse to be granted 5 year residence in the UK, but the idea of No Appeal in the UK following a Surrinder Singh route refusal sounds scary! Is securing the EA Family permit in Ireland THEN applying 5 year Resident Card in UK still overall the safest most sensible route in your opinion?


I'd rather have an avenue of appeal open in the UK given how open to interpretation the meeting requiremetns of Surrinder Singh is with UK immigration.

ONE LAST QUESTION:
Our plan is to leave China (with my non-EU Spouse) to head to the UK to visit family for a couple of weeks - and then on to the ROI. Taking this route to Ireland do you think my spouse should secure an Irish visa in addition to UK visa before leaving China - or can she just rely on the lack of border guards + EU directives to get into ROI from London (not shether arriving by plane or ferry yet).
Or is that an unnecessary risk/hassle and would be better to secure a ROI visa before leaving China.

Thanks again for your help.

A Family Permit can only be issued abroad. To clarify, it would be advisable to travel to the UK once you have a EEA Family Permit as you can reapply how many times as you like and once you have been issued it you shouldn't face difficulty in obtaining a EEA2 in the UK.
If you come to the UK without a EEA Permit, there is the risk that you may have not worked long enough in Ireland and/or made an error in paperwork which would result in having to go back to Ireland and starting again if you are refused an EEA2 and removal proceedings are started. If she is not required a visa to enter Ireland then you should be fine to enter Ireland. Otherwise you may still be able to enter Ireland but it would be safer to obtain an Irish visa first.

[Mrs.mdeben]

Hiya.

When you applied for EEA2 under Surinder Singh, did you submit all your evidences about center of life and exercising treaty rights when you applied for EEAFP? Or you just ticked the box in the EEA2 form saying that you have a FP bla bla bla.

Can you please tell me what are the papers you submitted as I will be applying in 2 weeks under SSroute. Thanks xx

[titou]

hi just wondering if u can help us as we been in ireland since 2june im british citizen n my non eu husband from tunisia n iv been register self employed for 1months now w replyed for the stamp4 we send the rest of document couple days agao for the non eu to be aible to have the stamp 4 in his passport as he hve tempory stamp4 what u think a chance to be aible to come bk to uk from belfast and wat would we need to do step by step to be aible to enter to uk and for the non eu to get his residance in uk and the right to work in uk

[st2447]

Hiya.

When you applied for EEA2 under Surinder Singh, did you submit all your evidences about center of life and exercising treaty rights when you applied for EEAFP? Or you just ticked the box in the EEA2 form saying that you have a FP bla bla bla.

Can you please tell me what are the papers you submitted as I will be applying in 2 weeks under SSroute. Thanks xx

Hi, Yes I submitted all my docs when I applied for an EEA2. I didn't apply for a EEA Family Permit. Iv'e listed all the documents in my post.

[st2447]

hi just wondering if u can help us as we been in ireland since 2june im british citizen n my non eu husband from tunisia n iv been register self employed for 1months now w replyed for the stamp4 we send the rest of document couple days agao for the non eu to be aible to have the stamp 4 in his passport as he hve tempory stamp4 what u think a chance to be aible to come bk to uk from belfast and wat would we need to do step by step to be aible to enter to uk and for the non eu to get his residance in uk and the right to work in uk

Hi, I think the steps I listed should work for you.You should make sure your stay in Ireland exceeds 3 month but the longer the better and maybe work for longer.

[Nemo30]

hi st2447,
my wife moved to Dublin to exercise free movement rights.she stays in a bed & breakfast until now she have`t had work or house till now,
Is it better for my entry visa app that she will be on the same flight with me or i can apply for joining her in dublin ?

[Prince_irl]

I know for me it is bit early but just for my understanding suppose after three or four month if I got to british high commission in Dublin and apply for SS visa over there will it be not easy and quick.......????

[Nemo30]

Hi all,

I wish to update members on our story. My wife has moved to Dublin,Ireland. She has now got a tenancy for 6 months and we will be applying for EU directive visa.

1. Getting a tenancy in Dublin, can be very difficult as the properties go really fast as there is current housing problems in the city and they want to hear that you are working. Open Viewing days/times seem to be the main way in Dublin, but be warned there are often lots of people at viewings! but don't be put off by this. make sure you have somewhere to stay for a few weeks. I would recommend airbnb.com

2.You have to have 1 month deposit and 1 month rent cash to secure somewhere. The rents can range from 500-850 Euro p/m and the size of the accommodation can be really small! Try to get accommodation a little further out from the city, the train and bus service is really good. Check out what is included in the rent price. Quite often refuse has to be paid for separately, this is not provided for free in the city. There are no 'council tax' charges but water charges have been introduced this month, so this will be an added cost. If you drive, do check out if you will have to pay for a permit which can be 40-80 per year from city council.

3.They also need previous landlord reference and a work reference. As my wife isn't working (in state under 3 months) she was able to show the letting agent, our savings that would cover the rent, they accepted this. Dublin is in need of people trained in IT, so as i am trained in this sector, this really helped when the letting agent was told this as he knew that there's jobs in this sector.

4. Getting a PPS Number is straightforward. As an EU citizen You will need passport and proof of address, so a letter from bnb/hostel will be accepted until you move. You can queue to register in Parnell Street (main office), your photo is taken and my wife received her PPS card within 5-7days.

5.We have seeked legal advice on our treaty rights. Please do not seek advice from her, she was offensive,unprofessional and most importantly she did not have any knowledge about immigration.

We will update you in time,on our progress in Dublin. There is hope!

[UKBALoveStory]

Hello st2447,

I have couple of questions if you can help me with that.

1. I chose to apply for an Ireland Directive 2004/38/EC Visa due to Ireland’s proximity and shared language/culture to the UK (link to visa cover letter). I applied for an accompany EU spouse visa in late December 2013 and was granted the Visa in mid-January 2014.

Were you physically located in UK when you applied for this visa in Pakistan for your wife?

I flew to Ireland with my wife on the 27th of January 2014.

- Which airline you have used for Pakistan to Ireland journey?

At the airport my wife was given a 90 days stamp on her passport and explained if we wished to stay longer we need to apply for a EU1 card.

- So you get the visa stamp on ireland airport? then how does Pakistani immigration/airline allowed your wife to board? or have you got some kind of stamp on her passport

[Tompa]

Hi St 2447
Talking of you redirecting all your letters to the UK pending the decision on your EU1 residence card as you put it in your post have you by any chance heard from INIS corcerning the 5yrs residence card and if so how long did it take for them to approve it
Thanks

[st2447]

Hello st2447,

I have couple of questions if you can help me with that.

1. I chose to apply for an Ireland Directive 2004/38/EC Visa due to Ireland’s proximity and shared language/culture to the UK (link to visa cover letter). I applied for an accompany EU spouse visa in late December 2013 and was granted the Visa in mid-January 2014.

Were you physically located in UK when you applied for this visa in Pakistan for your wife?

No, I was in Pakistan, It would have made no difference if I was in the UK.

I flew to Ireland with my wife on the 27th of January 2014.

- Which airline you have used for Pakistan to Ireland journey?

Turkish Airlines
At the airport my wife was given a 90 days stamp on her passport and explained if we wished to stay longer we need to apply for a EU1 card.

- So you get the visa stamp on ireland airport? then how does Pakistani immigration/airline allowed your wife to board? or have you got some kind of stamp on her passport

My wife had the Irish Spouse of EU citizen visa in her passport. She was given an entry stamp in Ireland

[st2447]

Hi St 2447
Talking of you redirecting all your letters to the UK pending the decision on your EU1 residence card as you put it in your post have you by any chance heard from INIS corcerning the 5yrs residence card and if so how long did it take for them to approve it
Thanks

I got my reply exactly 6 months after I applied. My wife's Irish Residency card application was approved. Since shes already got her UK card, we decided not to go to Ireland to collect it from the GNIB.

[RESH]

hello


I am amazed at how you processed this. I am in Ireland at the moment and I ma exercising my treaty rights for my mother to join me. I have a few questions!
how long did the prtb document take to process?
How did you get the eea2 perit without the irish residency card, as it says in the application that one must have it?
My solicitor says I need that card to make an application for the family permit in the uk

[chanjeewa.wb]

Dear Everyone

Please advice with me the followings.

1. I will be exercising my EU TREATY RIGHTS in Ireland / France with my Indian national wife. My wife got short stay Schengen visa to travel to France and her application for short stay Irish visa is under process in India. Ideal destination for us is Ireland and I would like to know that once you got the visa does she need to travel either of these countries straight way? For an example can she travel 6 weeks later once the visa is issued? The Schengen visa is valid from 5 November 2014 for 3 months.

2. We are waiting for a decision on Irish visa application was made as spouse of EU citizen over 3 weeks ago and waiting to hear. Can someone please help if we travel 6 weeks left on her visa to enter either of these countries would it affect anyway to apply for the resident card?

Please help.

[chanjeewa.wb]

Dear Everyone

Please advice with me the followings.

1. I will be exercising my EU TREATY RIGHTS in Ireland / France with my Indian national wife. My wife got short stay Schengen visa to travel to France and her application for short stay Irish visa is under process in India. Ideal destination for us is Ireland and I would like to know that once you got the visa does she need to travel either of these countries straight way? For an example can she travel 6 weeks later once the visa is issued? The Schengen visa is valid from 5 November 2014 for 3 months.

2. We are waiting for a decision on Irish visa application was made as spouse of EU citizen over 3 weeks ago and waiting to hear. Can someone please help if we travel 6 weeks left on her visa to enter either of these countries would it affect anyway to apply for the resident card?

Please help.

[chanjeewa.wb]

Dear Everyone

Please advice with me the followings.

1. I will be exercising my EU TREATY RIGHTS in Ireland / France with my Indian national wife. My wife got short stay Schengen visa to travel to France and her application for short stay Irish visa is under process in India. Ideal destination for us is Ireland and I would like to know that once you got the visa does she need to travel either of these countries straight way? For an example can she travel 6 weeks later once the visa is issued? The Schengen visa is valid from 5 November 2014 for 3 months.

2. We are waiting for a decision on Irish visa application was made as spouse of EU citizen over 3 weeks ago and waiting to hear. Can someone please help if we travel 6 weeks left on her visa to enter either of these countries would it affect anyway to apply for the resident card?

Please help.

[chanjeewa.wb]

Dear Everyone

Please advice with me the followings.

1. I will be exercising my EU TREATY RIGHTS in Ireland / France with my Indian national wife. My wife got short stay Schengen visa to travel to France and her application for short stay Irish visa is under process in India. Ideal destination for us is Ireland and I would like to know that once you got the visa does she need to travel either of these countries straight way? For an example can she travel 6 weeks later once the visa is issued? The Schengen visa is valid from 5 November 2014 for 3 months.

2. We are waiting for a decision on Irish visa application was made as spouse of EU citizen over 3 weeks ago and waiting to hear. Can someone please help if we travel 6 weeks left on her visa to enter either of these countries would it affect anyway to apply for the resident card?

Please help.

[Tompa]

Hi Sti 2447,
I got your reply.Thank you.i wanted to know 2 things.
1. I wanted to know if you got the letter from INIS through the redirection or was it sent through a recorded delivery system(signed for like the first one when they returned your documents).
2. I also wanted to know if it was just a letter instructing your wife to go and take your residence card or it was instructing you to accompany your wife for the card just like the Stamp 4 card.
Thanks very much

Tompa