EEA Questions concerning Renunciation of British citizenshi

[louise.]

I have have a few questions and would appreciate some helpful guidance.

I am a British citizen by birth with two British children from a previous relationship and have been working for a company for the last nearly 2 years. I do not meet the income threshold to bring my non EU partner in and have been told I can bring my partner in with a different method. My grandmother was born and brought up in limerick and after contacting the Irish embassy in London have been told I'm entitled to Irish citizenship via descent (my application is in for the FBR). Upon gaining that citizenship I will then renounce my British citizen ship and bring him in that way via the EEA route. I have a few questions regarding right of abode, housing,nhs etc

I under stand the bond between Ireland and the UK and the right of residence for Irish citizens has nothing to do with EU anyway its down to a promise between the two dating back 1920 odd? even if we left the EU they hardly going to kick every person out who not British, but even so, i would have no problem going to live in Ireland in the future when my children are older (ex around) its easier, I consider myself more Irish anyway. But I do wonder what the implications are to my decision. My only concerns is that is that it wont affect my current situation, My job, My housing association house etc, can anyone confirm all that?

I've also seen a open letter that someone had written to the home office with their response posted online that they must accept the eea permit if the individual , has renounced the citizenship and can prove it, is exercising treaty rights is that also correct? Also would I need to apply as the Irish citizen permanent permission to live here? after a certain amount of time, or would that be just my partner who is American? We have been together for over 2 years and have tons of contact proof over 3000 emails since june alone this year plus Skype calls daily and plane tickets etc of visits to one another over the last 2 years, do we need to submit evidence of the relationship too?

We are due to get married at christmas, is it better we marry once im declared Irish or does it make no difference if we marry while I'm still a British citizen? I cannot do the surindar singh route it is not financially practical or even practical for me and my children. The strain of living apart from one another is having a negative effect on me and my children and to renounce this British citizenship i am one hundred percent sure on. I would love to hear back from people who are in the process of doing this? or have done this? and some pointers if i have missed anything be great.

Thank you

[LilyLalilu]

I don't think it matters which nationality you have when you marry...I believe your nationality only matters once you try to bring your partner over to the UK.

This thread might be of interest to you if you haven't read it already; someone who has gone down a similar route describes their experience:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-ro ... FP%20route

[chaoclive]

A FEW BRIEF ANSWERS:

My job, My housing association house etc, can anyone confirm all that? ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM WITH THE JOB. NOT SURE ABOUT THE HOUSING ASSOCIATION HOUSE (YOU HAD BETTER ASK THEM TO MAKE SURE).

I've also seen a open letter that someone had written to the home office with their response posted online that they must accept the eea permit if the individual , has renounced the citizenship and can prove it, is exercising treaty rights is that also correct? YES - THIS IS CORRECT. MY CIVIL PARTNER GOT HIS EEA FAMILY PERMIT AFTER I RENOUNCED BRITISH CITIZENSHIP (I WAS BORN IN NORTHERN IRELAND; WE APPLIED FOR THE EEA FP IN CHINA). I HAVE RECENTLY RECEIVED MY EEA1 REGISTRATION CERTIFICATE (PROVING THAT I AM EXERCISING TREATY RIGHTS AS AN IRISH CITIZEN LIVING IN THE UK) AND MY PARTNER HAS ALREADY LODGED HIS APPLICATION FOR AN EEA2 RESIDENCE CERTIFICATE (NO RESPONSE JUST YET; IT'S ONLY BEEN 3 DAYS).

Also would I need to apply as the Irish citizen permanent permission to live here? NO; IRISH PEOPLE HAVE THE RIGHT TO WORK AND LIVE IN THE UK. THIS IS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE EU.

after a certain amount of time, or would that be just my partner who is American? HE WILL NEED PROOF OF RESIDENCE, I.E. APPLYING FOR AN EEA2 RESIDENCE CERTIFICATE FOR NON-EU CITIZENS.

We have been together for over 2 years and have tons of contact proof over 3000 emails since june alone this year plus Skype calls daily and plane tickets etc of visits to one another over the last 2 years, do we need to submit evidence of the relationship too? IF YOU ARE NOT MARRIED, I'M NOT SURE. AS WE HAD OUR CIVIL PARTNERSHIP IN 2011 AND APPLIED FOR THE EEA FP IN 2014, WE DIDN'T SUPPLY ANYTHING ABOUT OUR RELATIONSHIP. IT MAY HELP IF YOU PUT SOME BACKGROUND DETAILS ABOUT HOW YOU MET IN THE COVER LETTER YOU SUPPLY WITH THE EEA FP APPLICATION.

We are due to get married at christmas, is it better we marry once im declared Irish or does it make no difference if we marry while I'm still a British citizen? NO ISSUE AT ALL. WE HAD OUR CIVIL PARTNERSHIP AT THE BRITISH EMBASSY IN VIETNAM WHEN I WAS A DUAL BRITISH AND IRISH CITIZEN (I'VE HAD AN IRISH PASSPORT SINCE I WAS ABOUT 16). THIS WAS NEVER QUESTIONED AFTER I RENOUNCED BRITISH CITIZENSHIP, NOR WHEN WE APPLIED FOR THE EEA FP. I PROVIDED MY DECLARATION OF RENUNCIATION OF BRITISH CITIZENSHIP WITH THE EEA FP APPLICATION.

I'VE HEARD FROM QUITE A RELIABLE SOURCE THAT WHEN YOU GO TO SUBMIT YOUR RENUNCIATION DOCUMENT, YOU SHOULD GET YOUR GP TO SIGN THE WITNESS SECTION. THIS SHOULD MAKE IT HARD FOR THE HOME OFFICE TO REJECT YOUR DECLARATION ON THE BASIS THAT YOU ARE NOT OF SOUND MIND. I JUST HAD A FRIEND SIGN MY DECLARATION AND THIS WASN'T A PROBLEM EITHER. I APPLIED TO RENOUNCE AT THE START OF FEBRUARY 2014 AND RECEIVED THE STAMPED, APPROVED DECLARATION AT THE MIDDLE OF APRIL 2014. I'VE HEARD THAT THE RENUNCIATIONS NOWADAYS ARE TAKING ABOUT 3 MONTHS.

IF YOU HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, JUST POST THEM HERE AND I'LL TRY MY BEST TO ANSWER (BASED ON OUR EXPERIENCE).

[louise.]

Thank you for coming back to me and for both of your responses, I really appreciate it. Its a nerve racking time. I finally got hold of someone who deals with FBR applications at the Irish Embassy in London today lovely lady , who said processing times is around 3 weeks to 3 months, and more complicated ones up to 6 months, I was relieved to hear that. Now I'm worrying what could go wrong. My grandmother who was born and brought up in Ireland until she left when she was 17 to come here, holds a British passport she classes herself as British, is that a problem? also I'm thinking what if she is no longer Irish she been living here for 60 years! I know too many thoughts wizzing round my head. Am I worrying unnecessarily though?

I miss my partner so much not right for good honest people to be separated from their loved ones and families.

Me and the children Cant wait to be reunited with him.

[chaoclive]

also I'm thinking what if she is no longer Irish she been living here for 60 years!

you just don't cease to be Irish; as long as she was born on the island of Ireland, she will always be irish (whether she likes it or not) and is always entitled to Irish citizenship.

However, I don't know if the FBR requires that she currently holds an Irish passport or if her birth certificate would be enough? You had better ask that lovely lady if you need her passport. If so, you could try to urge your granny to get one. It should be quick and easy. If you tell her the reasons (i.e. your family reunification) she should be amenable to it. Tell her it won't affect her in any way as she can be a dual national of both the UK and Ireland.

Hope she agrees!

BTW: See here for some info about renunciation.

[louise.]

The lady said even a drivers license would do or social security information basically ID, so i hope Irish passport not needed, oh no more stuff to worry about

I couldn't see a link for additional info was there one at the bottom of your post?

Thank you for coming back to me, i have read your previous posts with regards to what you went through and it has been so helpful so i appreciate you helping me .

[ShrewsburyMark]

I was the person from the earlier linked thread.

I can't answer about the FBR / passport issues but definitely no problem getting the EEA FP using this route, we have done it 3 times before finally applying for residence card.

Go for it!!

[chaoclive]

The lady said even a drivers license would do or social security information basically ID, so i hope Irish passport not needed, oh no more stuff to worry about

I couldn't see a link for additional info was there one at the bottom of your post?

Thank you for coming back to me, i have read your previous posts with regards to what you went through and it has been so helpful so i appreciate you helping me .

Sorry!!!!
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... citizens_5

Re our situation: I've got my EEA1 registration certificate and he has already applied for his EEA2 residence certificate (applied on 2nd October and am still waiting on his EEA).

[louise.]

Just wanted to let you know , in case anyone reading this may find it useful. The Irish grandparent does not need to hold a Irish passport. I have spoken to the Irish Embassy London today who told me that. Apparently before 1960 (not sure of the exact date) people born in Ireland prior to that was automatically entitled to a British passport.

Fingers crossed my application gets processed quickly.

[chaoclive]

Just wanted to let you know , in case anyone reading this may find it useful. The Irish grandparent does not need to hold a Irish passport. I have spoken to the Irish Embassy London today who told me that. Apparently before 1960 (not sure of the exact date) people born in Ireland prior to that was automatically entitled to a British passport.

Fingers crossed my application gets processed quickly.

Great news! Good luck Louise

Don't forget that if you were to work in Northern Ireland after you get your Irish citizenship, your partner would be entitled to apply for Irish citizenship after 3 years as the spouse of an Irish citizen living in the island of Ireland. My partner is on this route at the moment. He has an EEA Family Permit (to enter the UK) and he's just applied for a Residence Card. After a few years he will apply for Irish citizenship because we are civil partners.

[louise.]

Hi there, ahh i didnt know that, i live and work in London, what citizenship would he get after living and working here on the EEA permit? I'm looking at moving to Ireland when my children older in around 6 years.

I also have another question that i need your advice on. As i mentioned we are planning to get married at christmas time but im now looking at getting married on our anniversary which is in mid janurary, he not so sure as he worrying if we marry too close to our EEA permit application going in that it would affect it somehow? my question is , does it matter when we marry time frame wise ?

Many Thanks

Louise

[chaoclive]

Hi there, ahh i didnt know that, i live and work in London, what citizenship would he get after living and working here on the EEA permit? I'm looking at moving to Ireland when my children older in around 6 years.

I also have another question that i need your advice on. As i mentioned we are planning to get married at christmas time but im now looking at getting married on our anniversary which is in mid janurary, he not so sure as he worrying if we marry too close to our EEA permit application going in that it would affect it somehow? my question is , does it matter when we marry time frame wise ?

Many Thanks

Louise

He could get permanent residence in the UK if you exercise your treaty rights in the UK for a period of 5 full years. Then he can go on to apply for British citizenship at the end of another year after that (as the law stands at present). Of course, there are requirements for British citizenship, e.g. a life in the UK test and an English language test. I'm not so au fait with the British citizenship requirements as I'm not planning this as an option for my CP. We're gonna go for Irish citizenship.

I would think that getting married as early as possible would be better. You could always get the civil marriage out of the way ASAP and then have a party (or religious marriage-if that's an option; I'm not sure about that) after that. Hope someone else will come and give some other viewpoints on this. It wasn't something that we had to consider as we had our civil partnership 3 years before applying for the family permit.

[louise.]

thanks for the quick response, hmm ok with regards to wedding, we have receipts of our wedding rings purchase from last year we been engaged since march 2013 and saw our rings and fell in love with them and got them, organised lol and my dress receipt thats hanging up in my wardrobe for the last year, would showing those receipts with the application hold weight we been engaged for a long time?

[chaoclive]

Not sure. I not sure that they would accept that as proof. However, if you have lived together/have joint account/rental contracts/utility bills or photos those would be much stronger proof.

Where is your partner from? Does he need a visa to enter the UK? If not, he can just enter as a tourist anyway and then apply for EEA2 (residence card) when you get your irish passport sorted out.

[louise.]

He from the USA, if it easier we can get married at xmas as planned i just thought a couple weeks difference wouldn't make much difference. With regards to EEA permits isnt there some things they cant ask anyway or request? as it different from the Uk fiance and spouse visas?

[chaoclive]

If he's from the USA he won't need a visa to enter the UK anyways. My partner did need one (he's Chinese).

I'm really unsure about how much the timing of the marriage would affect the actual process, but if we were in that situation, I'd be getting married earlier rather than later.

Try to get your Irish passport sorted out ASAP. I know of a lady whose American husband entered the UK without a family permit. She was also born in England and had Irish ancestry so she was able to apply for an Irish passport. She renounced British citizenship and her husband applied for and received a residence card (EEA2).

After you get the Irish passport, you will be able to start the renunciation process which, I've heard from others, can now take up to 3 months.

[louise.]

hey all, issues again.

I didnt submit the photocopy of my nan's ID as she wont give it to me. I dont know why, she very elderly , very protective over her information. Now im worried, what if they dont process it without her photo copy of ID? why do they need it? I spoke to the embassy who asked me some questions when i told them im having trouble getting it. they asked has she travelled much in recent years to be found? im like i suppose. I have had other family members try talking to her, nothing is working. I'm so annoyed . I have everything else they need. Is this going to pose a problem? can they refuse the application? I read somewhere by law they cant , the proof is there she born in Ireland. I dont know, what to do, the family member i asked to mediate has now said she doesnt want to know, nan upset and doesn't want to give her Id and basically they not getting involved anymore.

Please help, the stress of this, is crazy!

[chaoclive]

hey all, issues again.

I didnt submit the photocopy of my nan's ID as she wont give it to me. I dont know why, she very elderly , very protective over her information. Now im worried, what if they dont process it without her photo copy of ID? why do they need it? I spoke to the embassy who asked me some questions when i told them im having trouble getting it. they asked has she travelled much in recent years to be found? im like i suppose. I have had other family members try talking to her, nothing is working. I'm so annoyed . I have everything else they need. Is this going to pose a problem? can they refuse the application? I read somewhere by law they cant , the proof is there she born in Ireland. I dont know, what to do, the family member i asked to mediate has now said she doesnt want to know, nan upset and doesn't want to give her Id and basically they not getting involved anymore.

Please help, the stress of this, is crazy!

I'm not really sure about this but if you have her birth certificate I think you should be ok! What about other copies of proof, e.g. her marriage certificate (my civil partnership certificate states our nationalities at the time of marriage)? I'm not sure if you can get that easily.

Sorry I'm not much help with the "getting Irish citizenship" side of things. I'm more knowledgeable about what you can do when you get it.

Don't forget, you could always go to Ireland (or another EU country) to work if you don't get the Irish citizenship through. You can search for Surinder Singh. All is not lost just yet!

[louise.]

Hiya , thank you again for coming back so quick. i will detail what i have.

My nan's long birth certificate its in Irish and English shows she born in Limerick.

Her marriage certificate to my grandfather

My dad's full birth certificate , detailing his parents full names.

my dad's marriage certificate to my mother

Their divorce annulment

My dad's death certificate ( he passed away this year)
Dad's wedding certificate to my stepmother (she named on the death certificate)

My long , full birth certificate detailing parents names

3 proof of address
photocopy of my passport
2 passport pics signed my the principal of local school , she known me for 10 years
she my witness too on the application.

[chaoclive]

Hiya , thank you again for coming back so quick. i will detail what i have.

My nan's long birth certificate its in Irish and English shows she born in Limerick.

Her marriage certificate to my grandfather

My dad's full birth certificate , detailing his parents full names.

my dad's marriage certificate to my mother

Their divorce annulment

My dad's death certificate ( he passed away this year)
Dad's wedding certificate to my stepmother (she named on the death certificate)

My long , full birth certificate detailing parents names

3 proof of address
photocopy of my passport
2 passport pics signed my the principal of local school , she known me for 10 years
she my witness too on the application.

Should be fine! Did your dad have anything else with anything Irish-related on it? Was he ever on the FBR? (I'm guessing now but always worth considering). You might want to put your query on other websites too, e.g. http://www.boards.ie. Sorry if you've thought about this before. A note on Yahoo answers might turn up some more ideas.

If you're in touch with the Irish Embassy just see what they say. Or contact the DFA (Department of Foreign Affairs in Ireland) https://www.dfa.ie/passports-citizenshi ... rn-abroad/

You could also post another, more direct, query on the Ireland section of Immigration Boards.

[louise.]

No, to my knowledge he never become a Irish citizen , when i asked the lady at the embassy she did say photocopy of ID, but when i said I cant get it she asked has she travelled much , (maybe they search for her?) I said you can find her she is on electoral roll , on pension.

I appreciate you coming back to me, I have proven the link to descent with the certificates, so fingers crossed.

If anyone else did this without photocopy of Irish grandmother's ID please post.

[louise.]

Hi just a update, i am officially Irish i got my FBR certificate today, yeyy With regards to the missing Id i had to submit a affidavit letter swearing on oath and it was granted 2 weeks later. So pleased. Now the next steps, not sure what im more nervous about.

I am going to apply for my irish passport next week, and then after do the renunciation of the British citizenship. As i said i am working in the UK and have been for 18 months, when we eventually go to do the EEA permit route i am showing im excising treaty rights arnt I? If someone can give me a run down of what to do/expect i would appreciate it.

[chaoclive]

Hi just a update, i am officially Irish i got my FBR certificate today, yeyy With regards to the missing Id i had to submit a affidavit letter swearing on oath and it was granted 2 weeks later. So pleased. Now the next steps, not sure what im more nervous about.

I am going to apply for my irish passport next week, and then after do the renunciation of the British citizenship. As i said i am working in the UK and have been for 18 months, when we eventually go to do the EEA permit route i am showing im excising treaty rights arnt I? If someone can give me a run down of what to do/expect i would appreciate it.

Great! Good news

Now, the next thing is to get your Irish passport as soon as you can and then renounce your British citizenship. One step at a time I guess.

Later: As you have been working in the UK, you will need to provide proof of that to the Home Office when your partner applies for his EEA family permit. More info here: https://www.gov.uk/family-permit. The EEA FP application form is here: https://www.visa4uk.fco.gov.uk.

After that it's plain sailing! Your partner will be able to apply for his residence card as soon as you get some proof of address for him in the UK. Consider which of your bills you can add him on to. I got a TV license with my partner's name on it. That was enough for him to open a Cooperative Bank basic bank account (Called Cashminder). That gave him some proof of residence in the UK which you need when you send in the residence card application form.

[louise.]

hey , was hoping for your reply

is it really all plain sailing from here? we got married last month , im working , is it a case of just my wage slips and marriage certificate ? nothing else.?

Also down the line and i think i may have asked this before but can i double check a few things. After 5 years my american husband can get perm residence. I dont have too? secondly i saw this somewhere too.

Irish citizens seeking to become British citizens are usually required to live in the UK and become naturalised after meeting the normal residence and other requirements, unless they can claim British citizenship by descent from a UK born or naturalised parent. An Irish citizen who naturalises as a British citizen does not automatically lose Irish citizenship.

Naturalisation as a British citizen is a discretionary power of the Secretary of State for the Home Department but will generally not be refused if the requirements are met.

I take it that dont apply to me as i renounced? I do even now wonder the difference to not being British no more when everyone else in my family is. Also my children cannot get Irish citizenship from me can they , as my citizenship only started recently?

[chaoclive]

hey , was hoping for your reply

is it really all plain sailing from here? we got married last month , im working , is it a case of just my wage slips and marriage certificate ? nothing else.? PRETTY MUCH. HE WILL NEED A COPY OF YOUR RENUNCIATION CERTIFICATE AND (PREFERABLY ORIGINAL) IRISH PASSPORT. WILL YOU BE WITH HIM WHEN HE APPLIED? IF NOT, YOU MIGHT WANT TO GET A CERTIFIED COPY OF YOUR IRISH PASSPORT FROM THE IRISH EMBASSY IN LONDON (I'M NOT SURE IF THIS IS REQUIRE BUT I WOULD SAY THAT IT IS A GOOD IDEA). I WAS IN CHINA WHEN MY PARTNER APPLIED AND JOINED HIM TO THE EMBASSY. AS FAR AS I REMEMBER, THEY TOOK MY ORIGINAL PASSPORT.

Also down the line and i think i may have asked this before but can i double check a few things. After 5 years my american husband can get perm residence. I dont have too? secondly i saw this somewhere too. YES, HE WILL BE ABLE TO GET PERMANENT RESIDENCE (PR) AFTER 5 YEARS AND THEN AFTER ANOTHER YEAR OF HOLDING PR, HE WILL BE ABLE TO APPLY FOR BRITISH CITIZENSHIP IF HE LIKES. YOU (AND MYSELF) CAN APPLY FOR PR IF YOU LIKE BUT IT'S NOT NECESSARY AS IRISH PEOPLE (AT LEAST AT PRESENT) HAVE THE SAME RIGHTS AS BRITISH PEOPLE IN THE UK. I MIGHT APPLY FOR PR ANYWAYS, JUST IN CASE THINGS CHANGE IN THE FUTURE...THAT'S STILL A LONG WAY OFF THOUGH.

Irish citizens seeking to become British citizens are usually required to live in the UK and become naturalised after meeting the normal residence and other requirements, unless they can claim British citizenship by descent from a UK born or naturalised parent. An Irish citizen who naturalises as a British citizen does not automatically lose Irish citizenship.

Naturalisation as a British citizen is a discretionary power of the Secretary of State for the Home Department but will generally not be refused if the requirements are met.

I take it that dont apply to me as i renounced? I do even now wonder the difference to not being British no more when everyone else in my family is. Also my children cannot get Irish citizenship from me can they , as my citizenship only started recently?

RIGHT THIS WON'T APPLY TO YOU. IF YOU RENOUNCE YOU ARE ABLE TO APPLY TO GET YOUR BRITISH CITIZENSHIP BACK ONCE, BUT THIS IS AT THE DISCRETION OF THE SECRETARY OF STATE. BE CAREFUL ABOUT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PERMANENT RESIDENCE (PR) AND NATURALIZATION, WHICH LEADS TO BRITISH CITIZENSHIP. THESE ARE DIFFERENT THINGS.

THE BIG PART THAT YOU'RE MISSING IN THE MIDDLE IS THE RESIDENCE CARD: https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... orm-eea-fm