Good character of a child.

[Raymon_407]

Hi everyone,
I am pissing myself right now, I am desperate for an answer. Please help me!
I am a 17 year old guy and has been living in the UK for 8 years now. Finally, my mum has decided to apply for a british citizenship.
When I was 15, I had to pay a penalty fare (£20) because I was not able to show a valid ticket. Which I think was a bit unfair and my appeal was rejected so I paid the £20 within 21 days.
Now, the problem is that should I declare it in my citizenship form?
All my records are clean and that is the only ever problem I have had with the law.
Should I mention it on the form or not?
Thank you.

[noajthan]

Hi everyone,
I am pissing myself right now, I am desperate for an answer. Please help me!
I am a 17 year old guy and has been living in the UK for 8 years now. Finally, my mum has decided to apply for a british citizenship.
When I was 15, I had to pay a penalty fare (£20) because I was not able to show a valid ticket. Which I think was a bit unfair and my appeal was rejected so I paid the £20 within 21 days.
Now, the problem is that should I declare it in my citizenship form?
All my records are clean and that is the only ever problem I have had with the law.
Should I mention it on the form or not?
Thank you.

Was this an actual conviction & fine imposed in a criminal court case?
Or was it just some sort of fixed-price penalty ticket for not having a valid ticket?

What do you' mean by 'all your records are clean'?
Was it settled by a court appearance or through the post?
Do you know for sure you have a 'criminal record' or was this penalty a civil penalty?

If it's an actual conviction & penalty from a court case it will be on record somewhere and should be declared.
Not declaring it would be a deception by omitting a material fact.

What date did this actually happen?
- if it was within the last 3 years and if it was some sort of conviction it may be a problem.

A non-custodial offence or other out of court disposal that is recorded on a persons criminal record.
Application will normally be refused if the conviction occurred in the last 3 years.

Were you really 15 or were you 14?
If it happened at age 14 there's a chance you could delay your application and the 3 years will 'time out'.
(You would still have to mention it).

If it happened at age 15 and it is a criminal conviction you probably need to seek expert advice (because it won't time out until you turn 18).

The caseworker does have discretion if the offence did not occur in past 12 months & they can be persuaded you are otherwise of good character & to refuse the application would be "disproportionate".

See guidance:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... e_2015.pdf
- see page 22 about the discretion.

Suggest you start collecting references & testimonials to your good character from school or college and/or any religious or youth or charity organisations you may belong to.
Explain your case & add these to your application in the additional information section.

For more guidance see Forum FAQs:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/britis ... 36725.html
- see Q8 & Q8A

Good luck.

[t123456789]

See also here.

[Raymon_407]

Hi everyone,
I am pissing myself right now, I am desperate for an answer. Please help me!
I am a 17 year old guy and has been living in the UK for 8 years now. Finally, my mum has decided to apply for a british citizenship.
When I was 15, I had to pay a penalty fare (£20) because I was not able to show a valid ticket. Which I think was a bit unfair and my appeal was rejected so I paid the £20 within 21 days.
Now, the problem is that should I declare it in my citizenship form?
All my records are clean and that is the only ever problem I have had with the law.
Should I mention it on the form or not?
Thank you.

Was this an actual conviction & fine imposed in a criminal court case?
Or was it just some sort of fixed-price penalty ticket for not having a valid ticket?

What do you' mean by 'all your records are clean'?
Was it settled by a court appearance or through the post?
Do you know for sure you have a 'criminal record' or was this penalty a civil penalty?

If it's an actual conviction & penalty from a court case it will be on record somewhere and should be declared.
Not declaring it would be a deception by omitting a material fact.

What date did this actually happen?
- if it was within the last 3 years and if it was some sort of conviction it may be a problem.

A non-custodial offence or other out of court disposal that is recorded on a persons criminal record.
Application will normally be refused if the conviction occurred in the last 3 years.

Were you really 15 or were you 14?
If it happened at age 14 there's a chance you could delay your application and the 3 years will 'time out'.
(You would still have to mention it).

If it happened at age 15 and it is a criminal conviction you probably need to seek expert advice (because it won't time out until you turn 18).

The caseworker does have discretion if the offence did not occur in past 12 months & they can be persuaded you are otherwise of good character & to refuse the application would be "disproportionate".

See guidance:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... e_2015.pdf
- see page 22 about the discretion.

Suggest you start collecting references & testimonials to your good character from school or college and/or any religious or youth or charity organisations you may belong to.
Explain your case & add these to your application in the additional information section.

For more guidance see Forum FAQs:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/britis ... 36725.html
- see Q8 & Q8A

Good luck.

Hi noajthan,
No, there was no court involved. It was just a fixed- price penalty and by my records, I mean I have never been in trouble with any sort of law or immigration. It was all settled through the post.
It was a civil penalty as far as I know.
I think it was just a week or two after my 15th birthday.
So I have to declare it? What if I apply after I am 18 as an adult?
I don't think it was a conviction. I was just handed a ticket and I just had to go to the train station and pay for it.

[noajthan]

Hi noajthan,
No, there was no court involved. It was just a fixed- price penalty and by my records, I mean I have never been in trouble with any sort of law or immigration. It was all settled through the post.
It was a civil penalty as far as I know.
I think it was just a week or two after my 15th birthday.
So I have to declare it? What if I apply after I am 18 as an adult?
I don't think it was a conviction. I was just handed a ticket and I just had to go to the train station and pay for it.

Hmm, so maybe this was just a penalty fare.
Do you have any paperwork that states what regulation or byelaw or law you broke?

According to wikipedia a penalty fare is a civil debt and not a criminal offence:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penalty_f ... gal_status

This CAB information seems to say if you just pay up straight away it's a civil matter.
If you are summonsed & prosecuted via a court & even if you plead guilty it's then a criminal offence:
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consu ... ng-a-fare/

Any papertrail you have would help you verify what hapopened in your case.
Did you identify yourself & leave any details when you paid this penalty?

If it's any sort of conviction you will have to declare it;
the 3-year rule will probably apply so you will need expert advice

If it is really 'just' a civil debt it would be more like a FPN (speeding ticket) or PCN (parking ticket) so see Q5 of the FAQs.

Notice the official HO guidance states criminal record checks will be carried out for applicants over 10 years old.
The guide also says:

Fixed penalty notices (such as speeding or parking tickets) must be disclosed although will not normally be taken into consideration...

More in-depth details here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _D_v02.pdf
- see sections 3.2 & 4.2 in particular

It will be much more straightforward for you to register as a minor (under 18). If it's possible then it's probably best for you to do so asap.
I assume you will be making a family application, with at least one parent.

For example, as a minor you don't need to meet the 'KOLL' requirements (= pass Life in UK test & prove your level of English) as an adult applying for naturalisation would have to do.

That way it's all done and dusted; you could then apply for a British passport & focus on living your life as a law-abiding & productive citizen.

[Raymon_407]

Hmm, so maybe this was just a penalty fare.
Do you have any paperwork that states what regulation or byelaw or law you broke?

According to wikipedia a penalty fare is a civil debt and not a criminal offence:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penalty_f ... gal_status

This CAB information seems to say if you just pay up straight away it's a civil matter.
If you are summonsed & prosecuted via a court & even if you plead guilty it's then a criminal offence:
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consu ... ng-a-fare/

Any papertrail you have would help you verify what hapopened in your case.
Did you identify yourself & leave any details when you paid this penalty?

If it's any sort of conviction you will have to declare it;
the 3-year rule will probably apply so you will need expert advice

If it is really 'just' a civil debt it would be more like a FPN (speeding ticket) or PCN (parking ticket) so see Q5 of the FAQs.

Notice the official HO guidance states criminal record checks will be carried out for applicants over 10 years old.
The guide also says:

Fixed penalty notices (such as speeding or parking tickets) must be disclosed although will not normally be taken into consideration...

More in-depth details here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _D_v02.pdf
- see sections 3.2 & 4.2 in particular

It will be much more straightforward for you to register as a minor (under 18). If it's possible then it's probably best for you to do so asap.
I assume you will be making a family application, with at least one parent.

For example, as a minor you don't need to meet the 'KOLL' requirements (= pass Life in UK test & prove your level of English) as an adult applying for naturalisation would have to do.

That way it's all done and dusted; you could then apply for a British passport & focus on living your life as a law-abiding & productive citizen.[/quote]

Well the only official paper I had was a reminder letter to pay and if I dont then what the consequences would be. If its a civil debt, do I still have to mention it on the form? Because somewhere it said that these things would be overlooked.
It wasnt any sort of conviction or anything.
Is there a way where I could check my whole history? Because it would be much easier to fill the form and make sure that things are correct.
Thank you

[noajthan]

Well the only official paper I had was a reminder letter to pay and if I dont then what the consequences would be. If its a civil debt, do I still have to mention it on the form? Because somewhere it said that these things would be overlooked.
It wasnt any sort of conviction or anything.
Is there a way where I could check my whole history? Because it would be much easier to fill the form and make sure that things are correct.
Thank you

Here's a similar case:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/genera ... 83975.html
- there's a few others mentioned in the forum if you search for 'penalty fare'.

If yours also involved IRCAS (Independent Revenue Collection and Support) you could try calling their customer service & ask about it; also find out what happened to your details (are they even on file).

And you can make a FOI request to the police to check your 'record' (if any):
https://www.gov.uk/copy-of-police-records

Once you have that information at your fingerprints you can weigh up what to do.
(Just make sure you have time to apply before turning 18).

These penalties happen every day to thousands of people for all sorts of reasons.
I find it very hard to believe you would be denied citizenship because of one ticket.

Good luck.