Right of Abode or British Passport or Indian Passport?

[lappi831]

Hi Guys,

Thanks .Its a good news .Can you tell me your son /daughter born in UK or India .
where u naturalised before ur daughter/son was born .In this attachment what option you have selected .
Iam planning to apply for second time now .


Thanks ,
Harry

[vinny]

Hi Guys,

I got British Citizen Ship via Naturalisation and My baby born in india after my naturalisation.

I applied for Right of Abode for My Kid .. Its got rejected 2 times .. First time they can't see the My Original Naturalization Certificate I provided along with the application.

Second time they rejected stating

" I accepted that you have now submitted your father's certificate of naturalisation. How ever, I note that he had obtained his British Citizenship by registration under Section 6(1) which does not entitle you to Right of Abode in the UK. I draw your attention to the following link. which details eligibility for a right of abode in the UK.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _57_v4.pdf

There fore your application is refused in accordance with section 2(1) of the 1971 Act "

Please can you advice .. Are they right rejecting my kids application?

Thanks,
Ranjith.

[ranji82]

Hi Guys,

I am delighted to say that we received my kids passport today with ROA stamp on it. I sent second email with all the details like application reference number , sections of the laws as suggested by admins .. To my surprise I got a response with in 10 days stating after going through me email .. they decided to issue the visa.

I want to thank Mahesh , Vinu ,simon and other guys for their suggestions ..

Thanks,
Ranjith

Congrats Ranjith, i am happy for you.

Thanks Mahesh.

[ranji82]

Hi Guys,

Thanks .Its a good news .Can you tell me your son /daughter born in UK or India .
where u naturalised before ur daughter/son was born .In this attachment what option you have selected .
Iam planning to apply for second time now .


Thanks ,
Harry

Hi Harry,

He is born in india .. Yes .. I am naturalised before he was born. sorry .. can't see any attachment?

Thanks,
Ranjith

[ranji82]

Hi Guys,

I am delighted to say that we received my kids passport today with ROA stamp on it. I sent second email with all the details like application reference number , sections of the laws as suggested by admins .. To my surprise I got a response with in 10 days stating after going through me email .. they decided to issue the visa.

I want to thank Mahesh , Vinu ,simon and other guys for their suggestions ..

Thanks,
Ranjith

Congrats and Best wishes to you

Thanks 20shamat.

[lappi831]

Hi Guys,

Hi Ranji ,
Thanks for your reply .Iam also in the same situation .Can you provide me the email id which you have sent & what documents you have sent as attachments with email .

Please share it .

Thanks,
Harry

[movingwonder]

Hi All,

First of all I would like to thank all the members who have posted their valuable posts, which have answered quite a few questions I had in my head for long. I am travelling in similar boat as others whose ROA applications have been refused.

Just a quick brief of my situation below. Your advice is much appriciated.

My daughter born in SEP 2014 in INDIA.
I (Father) am British by Naturalization (Sep 2013)
My wife (Mother) got ILR in Feb 2014. My wife traveled to india in Mar 2014 to get support from family at the time of pregnancy.


Nov 2014 >> Applied ROA @ VFS Hyderabad. ( after looking at all the posts of ROA and Passport applications delays)
Dec 2014 >> ROA refused with silly reasons citing that I was not born in UK, hence my daughter cannot qualify.
Jan 2015 >> consulted solicitor and APPEAL launched.
Apr 2015 >> NO response, hence decided to apply Passport application as well while we wait for appeal decision. APPEAL still ON.
May 2015 >> Passport application finally posted. ( courtesy VFS appointment delays @ Hyderabad )
Jun 2015 >> Tribunal sends a letter asking HO to respond by end of June 2015 and asked for my response by end of July
10 July 2015 >> still no response from HO.

I am now in a very confused state, which option to go for:

1. Wait for the Tribunal to decide on the ROA appeal? which may take another 2-3 months and can be +ve or -ve
If +ve >> all good ( No more expense, but might take 2-3 months)
If -ve >> I will loose right to even re apply for ROA

2. Withdraw ROA appeal and re apply citing that they got it wrong in first instance and request to consider and issue ROA (expense :£350, but response in 2 weeks)
if they reject it again citing the same reason as first application, then back to square one.
But at least I will know thier decision and wait for passport application.

3. Apply for the Overseas Birth Registration while waiting for the British passport application. It will require all original douments to be posted and might take similar timelines as passport.

Please kindly suggest me as we have already gone through a lot of emotional stress and getting impatient day by day.
I have travelled 3 times to India in last 6 months and have spend a lot of money for consultation, which did not give me any result.
My solicitor says he will prepare a fresh appeal bundle and quoting 5 times the price of the application fees.

I truly repent the decision to have baby in India. Home Office seems to be having under qualified team and DONT CARE attitude towards particular country applications.

Please Help. Thanks in advance.

regards,
Raaj

[vinny]

Note that they cannot issue a CoE-RoA, if the applicant has a British passport.

[secret.simon]

Also, if the parents make an application for the child's British passport, as opposed to a CoE-RoA, the child automatically loses his/her Indian citizenship and hence his/her Indian passport needs to be surrendered.

Mahesh Gowda's post in this thread sums up the actions that you need to take forward. I personally do not think it needs a solicitor, just a lot of follow-up.

As regards the comment about regarding regretting the plan of giving birth in India, I empathise. You are dealing with the bureaucracies of two countries and you have to keep on top of the procedures of both. To my friends and colleagues, I have always recommended against giving birth outside the UK, for that reason and because of the inability of British citizens by descent to transmit citizenship further down. But I understand that tradition and emotional needs can trump any rational logic in the case of something as familial as child birth.

[movingwonder]

ranji,

as requested earlier by harry, please could you share the details of the e-mail draft and sections of the laws as suggested you have included.

Thanks in advance.

regards,
Raaj

[ranji82]

Hi Raaj / Harry,

Sorry for the late response.

The email address I used was Chennai.visaenquiry@fco.gov.uk and I didn't send any documents as attachment . I just send mail as below stating my kids application reference number.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing in reference of the application (Right of Adobe : Certificate of Entitlement <Application Reference Number>)

I, <Your Name> am British National obtained via Naturalisation on <Date of Naturalisation> and my wife <Wife Name> is Indian National with valid <Partners Visa Details>.
My son , <Kids Name> was born in <Place of Birth> on <Date Of Birth>. He is BRITISH by birth (British citizen ‘by descent’) as per British Nationality Act 1981 section 2(1) a on the basis "Born outside UK after 1983 to a parent who is British citizen 'not by descent'".
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1981/61/section/2

I even verified this by going through the below link
https://www.gov.uk/check-british-citizen

which states "In most cases you’ll be a British citizen ‘by descent’. This means you can gain citizenship from one of your parents, but your own children won’t automatically become British citizens."

I believe he is eligible for Right Of Abode as per immigration act 1971 section 2
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1971/77/section/2

which states
A person is under this Act to have the right of abode in the United Kingdom if—
(a) he is a British citizen
and even under
The immigration regulations 2006 Regulation 6
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2006 ... ion/6/made
which states
6. A certificate of entitlement will only be issued where the appropriate authority is satisfied that the applicant—

(a)has a right of abode in the United Kingdom under section 2(1) of the 1971 Act(1);

(b)is not a person who holds:

(i)a United Kingdom passport describing him as a British citizen,

(ii)a United Kingdom passport describing him as a British subject with the right of abode in the United Kingdom,

(iii)an ID card issued under the Identity Cards Act 2006(2) describing him as a British citizen, or

(iv)an ID card issued under that Act describing him as a British subject with the right of abode in the United Kingdom;

(c)is not a person whose exercise of his right of abode is restricted under section 2 of the Immigration Act 1988(3) (restrictions on exercise of right of abode in cases of polygamy); and

(d)is not a person who is deprived of his right of abode by an order under section 2A of the 1971 Act(4).

with the above information I applied for our son ROA on <Date Of Application> (Ref : <Reference>) which was rejected on 01-06-2015 stating

I accepted that you have now submitted your father's certificate of naturalisation. How ever, I note that he had obtained his British Citizenship by registration under Section 6(1) which does not entitle you to Right of Abode in the UK.

1) I obtained citizenship by naturalisation.
2) I can pass my citizenship to <Kids Name> (under British Nationality Act 1981 section 2(1))

My humble request is to go through my kids application once again .. I will be very grateful if you reconsider his application.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

These are the legislations mentioned in my email .. Only advice I can give you is please be patient.

Thanks,
Ranjith.

[movingwonder]

Ranjith,

Thanks for the detail post. Much appreciated.

regards,
Raaj

[movingwonder]

HI,

Chennai office has responded to my letter ( with above content from Ranjith) to them :

They are still standing by their decision not giving the ROA stating that they do not think my daughter is not not eligible for COE.

My deadline for submitting appeal bundle to tribunal is tomorrow. Chennai office has already submitted the documents to support their decision (which were not provided to me). I am planning to write the appeal bundle myself to tribunal quoting the same information that is posted by Ranjith.

Hoping tribunal might be able to see and approve. this is my last resort as the solicitors and barristers are quoting quite high price to prepare appeal bundle and most shockingly every other solicitors gives me different facts, which are making me more confusing.

I have chosen to submit my self and see if it works. I hope this info can be useful for someone in same boat. Meantime, I am still waiting for passport application to go through.

CAN SOMEONE PLEASE SUGGEST IF VISIT VISA CAN BE APPLIED TO MY DAUGHTER TO JOIN ME IN UK WHILE I WAIT FOR THE PASSPORT APPLICATION?

Thanks in advance.
regards
Raaj

[vinny]

CAN SOMEONE PLEASE SUGGEST IF VISIT VISA CAN BE APPLIED TO MY DAUGHTER TO JOIN ME IN UK WHILE I WAIT FOR THE PASSPORT APPLICATION?

Technically, no. However, some have succeeded.

[sun4u_m]

Raaj

Any update on your case?

[gre.bm691]

Good Morning all

Its amazing how this is such an important topic and yet there it lack of clarity over it.

I am in a similar situation, the only difference is the child is not born yet. Wife is in India as of now and we are still pondering over the decision. I am British citizen and wife is on spouse visa (Indian passport)
After reading the horror stories about the delays in obtaining citizenship for the child born abroad, ROA seemed to be the best solution.
I consulted with one of the local solicitors. He strongly objected to opting for the ROA route saying that it might lead to "complications" going forward. When asked, he didnt give a clear answer as to what complications could it lead to.

With so many of you experiencing the processes (RoA and direct British Citizenship), can someone please advice me whats the best way forward? I am tempted to go see a renowned solicitor, but thought I first check with people who have been there..

Thanks in Advance.
Hmza

[vinny]

After reading the horror stories about the delays in obtaining citizenship for the child born abroad, ROA seemed to be the best solution.

Any child you have after your naturalisation is automatically British.

[gre.bm691]

After reading the horror stories about the delays in obtaining citizenship for the child born abroad, ROA seemed to be the best solution.

Any child you have after your naturalisation is automatically British.

I meant the passport. Sorry.

[Applu Rose]

Hi,

It would be great if someone could answer my query. Moderators...Experts...please help!!

I have applied for my child's British passport from India. Its been 5months but no progress yet. Me (mother; Indian with ILR) and child are in India now and child's father (naturalized British citizen) is in the Uk.Since there isn't any update on the passport and after hearing stories now of people who had to wait around a year, I am thinking of a second option to take my child to the UK.

My question is..can I apply for Indian passport and RoA in parallel (without cancelling the British passport application).
Or is there any other option?

Thank u in advance..

[sun4u_m]

I don't thinks its possible.

I am awaiting for CoE-RoA for my son for 5 weeks now.

[gre.bm691]

Sun4um.. please keep us posted with the progress. I am sure this route would be quicker than direct passport application.

[sun4u_m]

Today, we got the RoA-CoE for my son from Delhi. It took 22 working days from submission of documents.

[Applu Rose]

Hi Sun4um..

Congrats and thats a great news.
Could you please share what r the documents you submitted. It would be very helpful.

Thanks n regards
Rose

[rambo123]

Hi Sun4um…

Many Congratulations...

We are in similar situation father [British citizen natuarlised after 5 years] mother [Indian passport + ILR]
My wife is in India, expecting baby in first week of feb. I need to fly them back to uk before Sept,as my elder son due to start reception in Sept.

Could you please share how did you go about making application and what documents you submitted.

Thanks in advance…
Ramesh

[chiku1980]

"What documents to submit? and under nationality should I say my daughter is British or Indian?

The nationality should be stated as British. Commonwealth citizens born on/after 1983 would have no claim to the Right of Abode. The CoERoA would be issued under Regulation 6 of the Immigration (Certificate of Entitlement to Right of Abode in the United Kingdom) Regulations 2006.

Hi Vinny,
In one of the previous posts (Excerpts above) you had mentioned that we should state the nationality as british for the CIE to ROA application. I can understand your logic - that the child cannot have the right to abode if he/she is not a british citizen.

However on the form itself - the way the question is stated

"Nationality as stated in the passport or the travel document" - This would therefore have to be stated as India since there is no travel document or passport showing the british citizenship.

Also, the next question is "Do you currently hold, or have you ever held, any other nationality or nationalities?" Even for this question the form states "Do you have any other passports or travel documents which show you have held a different nationality or nationalities?"

We would therefore have to answer this as NO.

Therefore there is nowhere on the form where we state the british citizenship. The only place is where we state the reason for claiming the right to abode.

What are your thoughts?

Can anyone else who has successfully applied for the COE to ROA please opine as well?