Please advise on Child registeration

[dunca]

I have just acquired permanent residence. Was previously married to Eea national but got divorced over a year ago. I have re married but my husband is yet to join me in UK.

Here is my question, i i had a baby few weeks before my PR was issued and would like to register him as a British citizen using the MN1. Can I ask if I qualify to do so. Considering I am settled but the father (my husband) is yet to join us here in the UK.

Many thanks for your kind advises in advance

[vinny]

If child was born in the UK prior to you completing your 5 years, then child is entitled to register.

[noajthan]

I have just acquired permanent residence. Was previously married to Eea national but got divorced over a year ago. I have re married but my husband is yet to join me in UK.

Here is my question, i i had a baby few weeks before my PR was issued and would like to register him as a British citizen using the MN1. Can I ask if I qualify to do so. Considering I am settled but the father (my husband) is yet to join us here in the UK.

Many thanks for your kind advises in advance

What is the date you (automatically) acquired PR?
What is the date the (optional) PR card was issued ? (note: this card just confirms PR it doesn't 'grant' PR);
How do those dates compare to child's birth date?

If child was born after you automatically acquired PR (before PR card happened to be issued) ie if you were already settled then s/he will be automatically British.
In that case no need to register. Apply direct for passport.

Otherwise the case will be as posted above.

So the specific dates (acquired PR versus issued PR card) are significant.

[dunca]

If child was born in the UK prior to you completing your 5 years, then child is entitled to register.

Many thanks Vinny

[dunca]

I have just acquired permanent residence. Was previously married to Eea national but got divorced over a year ago. I have re married but my husband is yet to join me in UK.

Here is my question, i i had a baby few weeks before my PR was issued and would like to register him as a British citizen using the MN1. Can I ask if I qualify to do so. Considering I am settled but the father (my husband) is yet to join us here in the UK.

Many thanks for your kind advises in advance

What is the date you (automatically) acquired PR?
What is the date the (optional) PR card was issued ? (note: this card just confirms PR it doesn't 'grant' PR);
How do those dates compare to child's birth date?

If child was born after you automatically acquired PR (before PR card happened to be issued) ie if you were already settled then s/he will be automatically British.
In that case no need to register. Apply direct for passport.

Otherwise the case will be as posted above.

So the specific dates (acquired PR versus issued PR card) are significant.

Hi Noajthan,

Really!!!.... Do u realise u are probably going to make this day a joyful one for me by what you are telling me. But please don't be offended if I sound naive.

I automatically acquired PR end of March 2015 and my son was born June 2015 here in the UK. So based on what you are telling me, i can apply for his British passport directly.i will be sooo happy to avoid this £795 fee to be honest. Pleasee is there a way to prove this is possible pleas. I have already apologised if I sound naive. I ask this cos when applying for British citizenship, they don't take into account when u automatically acquired PR , instead they expect to see you have waited for 1 year before applying.

Please advise me.

[noajthan]

Hi Noajthan,

Really!!!.... Do u realise u are probably going to make this day a joyful one for me by what you are telling me. But please don't be offended if I sound naive.

I automatically acquired PR end of March 2015 and my son was born June 2015 here in the UK. So based on what you are telling me, i can apply for his British passport directly.i will be sooo happy to avoid this £795 fee to be honest. Pleasee is there a way to prove this is possible pleas. I have already apologised if I sound naive. I ask this cos when applying for British citizenship, they don't take into account when u automatically acquired PR , instead they expect to see you have waited for 1 year before applying.

Please advise me.

Yes, if you had settled status (for EEA nationals that means PR) already & then child is born (in UK) s/he is British.
(Failing that for any reason & s/he needs to register then apply for passport afterwards).

A child born in UK to an EEA national
A child born in UK to an EEA national after 30 April 2006 will be a British citizen if their parent had been in the UK exercising treaty rights ... for more than 5 years or has indefinite leave to remain[/b]

See guidance - EEA section:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... e_2015.pdf

Yes it is confusing, I get confused sometimes too... that 12-month rule (free from immigration time restrictions) applies to adults who are not married to a BC spouse. For children it's a different section of BNA that applies.

btw - Even if you had applied to register your child 'by mistake' HO would/should have spotted it & refunded your fee.

Best of luck.

[dunca]

Hi Noajthan,

Really!!!.... Do u realise u are probably going to make this day a joyful one for me by what you are telling me. But please don't be offended if I sound naive.

I automatically acquired PR end of March 2015 and my son was born June 2015 here in the UK. So based on what you are telling me, i can apply for his British passport directly.i will be sooo happy to avoid this £795 fee to be honest. Pleasee is there a way to prove this is possible pleas. I have already apologised if I sound naive. I ask this cos when applying for British citizenship, they don't take into account when u automatically acquired PR , instead they expect to see you have waited for 1 year before applying.

Please advise me.

Yes, if you had settled status (for EEA nationals that means PR) already & then child is born (in UK) s/he is British.
(Failing that for any reason & s/he needs to register then apply for passport afterwards).

A child born in UK to an EEA national
A child born in UK to an EEA national after 30 April 2006 will be a British citizen if their parent had been in the UK exercising treaty rights ... for more than 5 years or has indefinite leave to remain[/b]

See guidance - EEA section:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... e_2015.pdf

And yes it may be confusing, the citizenship rules are not 'laws' as such but are based on the fact citizenship is a privilege; it is gifted at the Queen's pleasure as it depend on the Royal Prerogative.

btw - Even if you had applied to register your child 'by mistake' HO would/should have spotted it & refunded your fee.

Best of luck.

I am a Non-EEA. was previously married to EEA national and retained rights after divorce and then applied for PR after 5 years of marriage . So does this still apply

[noajthan]

And yes it may be confusing, the citizenship rules are not 'laws' as such but are based on the fact citizenship is a privilege; it is gifted at the Queen's pleasure as it depend on the Royal Prerogative.

My bad - I was thinking of passports when I added the above.
Correction...

Actually...
Yes it is confusing, I get confused sometimes too... that 12-month rule (free from immigration time restrictions) applies to adults who are not married to a BC spouse. For children it's a different section of BNA that applies.

[noajthan]

I am a Non-EEA. was previously married to EEA national and retained rights after divorce and then applied for PR after 5 years of marriage . So does this still apply

The guidance is clear, for a UK-born child the parent (just one parent) just needs to have settled status ie be free of immigration time restrictions. For an EEA-national that means PR.

It doesn't matter how you acquired PR as long as you have it.

Then the process depends on the timings....

Parent settled first then baby (born in UK) = child automatically British; apply passport
OR
UK-born baby then parent becomes 'settled' = register child then apply passport.

[dunca]

I am a Non-EEA. was previously married to EEA national and retained rights after divorce and then applied for PR after 5 years of marriage . So does this still apply

The guidance is clear, for a UK-born child the parent (just one parent) just needs to have settled status ie be free of immigration time restrictions. For an EEA-national that means PR.

It doesn't matter how you acquired PR as long as you have it.

Then the process depends on the timings....

Parent settled first then baby (born in UK) = child automatically British; apply passport
OR
UK-born baby then parent becomes 'settled' = register child then apply passport.

Thanks . But what has confused me now is that the fact EEA is what is mentioned on the BNA and as u stated above . That is in terms of children born of an EEA national.
My question is still surrounding the automatic acquisition of PR. So I want to know if a NON EEA can also automatically acquire PR. and whether HO recognises this .

Based on my timeline I stated above, if a non eea automatically acquire PR, then I did before I had my baby. And could apply for passport directly

The other thing that makes me even more confused is that HO issues EEA national doc certifying permanent residence where as non eea are issued permanent resident card. This is stated on the EEA PR form.

I just want to be sure I can automatically qualify for PR and if HO recognises this when it comes to citizenship of a child born in the UK

[noajthan]

Thanks . But what has confused me now is that the fact EEA is what is mentioned on the BNA and as u stated above . That is in terms of children born of an EEA national.
My question is still surrounding the automatic acquisition of PR. So I want to know if a NON EEA can also automatically acquire PR. and whether HO recognises this .

Based on my timeline I stated above, if a non eea automatically acquire PR, then I did before I had my baby. And could apply for passport directly

The other thing that makes me even more confused is that HO issues EEA national doc certifying permanent residence where as non eea are issued permanent resident card. This is stated on the EEA PR form.

I just want to be sure I can automatically qualify for PR and if HO recognises this when it comes to citizenship of a child born in the UK

You are clearly a great and fiercely-protective mother of your child, s/he is truly blessed.

The parent in this type of case has to be settled.
You are settled as you have acquired PR by a combination of:
a) being a dependent family member (spouse) of an EEA national who was exercising their treaty rights
plus b) you have RoR after divorce.

And yes HO definitely recognises your route to PR as being a legitimate route.
See

You can also get permanent residence if you’ve lived in the UK for a continuous period of 5 years:

...

first as the family member of an EEA national and then with a retained right of residence

Ref: https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-a-uk-resid ... dence-card

On your second point or question: before someone acquires PR they can be issued a Residence Card (RC) - it is not a 'permanent resident card' it's a 'residence card' - they are 2 different cards.

If you also read the following in the MN1 guidance it may make it all a little clearer:

Automatic acquisition of British citizenship
Children who have automatically acquired British citizenship do not need to be registered.

There are two ways a child can automatically be a British citizen without needing to register

British citizenship otherwise than by descent
1) A child born in the UK to parents one or both of whom are British citizens, or are settled in the UK at the time the child is born, ...

[dunca]

Thanks . But what has confused me now is that the fact EEA is what is mentioned on the BNA and as u stated above . That is in terms of children born of an EEA national.
My question is still surrounding the automatic acquisition of PR. So I want to know if a NON EEA can also automatically acquire PR. and whether HO recognises this .

Based on my timeline I stated above, if a non eea automatically acquire PR, then I did before I had my baby. And could apply for passport directly

The other thing that makes me even more confused is that HO issues EEA national doc certifying permanent residence where as non eea are issued permanent resident card. This is stated on the EEA PR form.

I just want to be sure I can automatically qualify for PR and if HO recognises this when it comes to citizenship of a child born in the UK

You are clearly a great and fiercely-protective mother of your child, s/he is truly blessed.

The parent in this type of case has to be settled.
You are settled as you have acquired PR by a combination of:
a) being a dependent family member (spouse) of an EEA national who was exercising their treaty rights
plus b) you have RoR after divorce.

And yes HO definitely recognises your route to PR as being a legitimate route.
See

You can also get permanent residence if you’ve lived in the UK for a continuous period of 5 years:

...

first as the family member of an EEA national and then with a retained right of residence

Ref: https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-a-uk-resid ... dence-card

On your second point or question: before someone acquires PR they can be issued a Residence Card (RC) - it is not a 'permanent resident card' it's a 'residence card' - they are 2 different cards.

If you also read the following in the MN1 guidance it may make it all a little clearer:

Automatic acquisition of British citizenship
Children who have automatically acquired British citizenship do not need to be registered.

There are two ways a child can automatically be a British citizen without needing to register

British citizenship otherwise than by descent
1) A child born in the UK to parents one or both of whom are British citizens, or are settled in the UK at the time the child is born, ...

Many thanks . You have been so helpful to me.sorry I no very little about the immigration laws hence the advice we get from people like you on this forum is invaluable. But if u can answer this one last question , I will stop bugging you.
I understand a child can automatically qualify if one parent is settled at the time of birth.

What I am trying to ascertain is if I was actually settled at the time of birth. as previously stated following your first post , I stated that I qualified for PR end of March and my baby was born in June. But following application for PR, it was granted this September. So as a non eea , do we also automatically acquire PR or is it the date on the sticker issued by HO that matters.

Reason I am asking is to know if I should go ahead and apply for His passport (if I automatically acquired PR end of March ) or apply to have him registered as BC first( that is is what counts is the date on the PR sticker I have).


If I acquired PR automatically depending on your response to my questions above, do I have to submit all documents showing ex era spouse and myself were exercising treaty right and a worker respectively to the HO when applying for the BC?

Apologies if I am loosing the plot

[noajthan]

Many thanks . You have been so helpful to me.sorry I no very little about the immigration laws hence the advice we get from people like you on this forum is invaluable. But if u can answer this one last question , I will stop bugging you.
I understand a child can automatically qualify if one parent is settled at the time of birth.

What I am trying to ascertain is if I was actually settled at the time of birth. as previously stated following your first post , I stated that I qualified for PR end of March and my baby was born in June. But following application for PR, it was granted this September. So as a non eea , do we also automatically acquire PR or is it the date on the sticker issued by HO that matters.

Reason I am asking is to know if I should go ahead and apply for His passport (if I automatically acquired PR end of March ) or apply to have him registered as BC first( that is is what counts is the date on the PR sticker I have).

If I acquired PR automatically depending on your response to my questions above, do I have to submit all documents showing ex era spouse and myself were exercising treaty right and a worker respectively to the HO when applying for the BC?

Apologies if I am loosing the plot

The MN1 guidance doesn't talk about PR cards it is all about settled status (which you state you have acquired already, automatically).

I think on that basis you have enough to go ahead & apply for a passport.
It's also less outlay at risk if all goes wrong and you are denied for some reason.

Another option is to apply for confirmation of nationality status:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... us-form-ns
However based on what you've posted I don't think that is necessary.

The passport form shows the requirements:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... s_4_14.pdf

For a child you need to demonstrate your immigration status as parent.
It doesn't go into specifics.
Note you may need father's parental permission as well as giving your own for the passport to be issued.

If the PR card was issued in September is it dated September (or March?).
Have you anything in writing to demonstrate you acquired PR in March but card was only issed to confirm this in September?

Anyway you can't be the first parent with PR who is applying for child's passport.
In your case why not approach the HMPO passport helpline to find out exactly what they expect you to submit.

[noajthan]

One more thing that should float your boat......

A person under 18 who was born in the UK?
•
Completed application form MN1 (available on Home Office website),
•
Child’s full UK birth certificate (showing child and parent’s details), and passport if available;
•
Evidence that at least one parent has either indefinite leave to remain, a Permanent Residence card or is a British citizen;*
•
If the parents are married, it may be useful to supply the marriage certificate.

*Parents who are EEA nationals and who do not hold a permanent residence card may be deemed to be settled after having exercised EU Treaty rights in the UK for a continuous period of five years.

That parent or parents should produce evidence covering that five-year period, such as P60s, wage slips, retrospective letters from employers confirming dates of engagement, self-assessment statements, National Insurance receipts etc

See http://www.lbhf.gov.uk/Images/Document% ... 166072.pdf

So with or without submitting PR card you are good to go.

[noajthan]

See http://www.lbhf.gov.uk/Images/Document% ... 166072.pdf

So with or without submitting PR card you are good to go.

Similar examples - it doesn't matter parent was EEA & you are not as you now have PR/settled status (via an EEA route):
http://www.immigrationboards.com/britis ... l#p1019802

An older case - still a success:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/britis ... 68320.html

[dunca]

If the PR card was issued in September is it dated September (or March?).
Have you anything in writing to demonstrate you acquired PR in March but card was only issed to confirm this in September?

the PR I have is dated September. no I have got anything in writing to state that I acquired PR automatically , but based on eea regulations, I understand PR is attained automatically after 5 continuous residence in UK as a family member of EEA national. (Apologies, I don't know the laws that very much).

.

[noajthan]

If the PR card was issued in September is it dated September (or March?).
Have you anything in writing to demonstrate you acquired PR in March but card was only issed to confirm this in September?

the PR I have is dated September. no I have got anything in writing to state that I acquired PR automatically , but based on eea regulations, I understand PR is attained automatically after 5 continuous residence in UK as a family member of EEA national. (Apologies, I don't know the laws that very much).

.

It's critical that HMPO understands you had PR in March (before child was born) for the timings to work out in the correct sequence:
acquired PR (March) --> child born in UK (June) => entiltled to passport directly

If PR card shows September that may confuse them.

As posted earlier there is a way to submit other evidence, see here:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/britis ... l#p1242392

[dunca]

I spoke to HMPO and they advised that automatic automatic acquisition of PR using treaty rights is only applicable to EEA citizens. I have been asked to apply to have the child registered as a BC since the child was born before I became settled (PR , issued)

Though he kept talking about indefinite leave zzzzzzzz

[secret.simon]

I spoke to HMPO and they advised that automatic automatic acquisition of PR using treaty rights is only applicable to EEA citizens.

The Home Office phone lines have been known to give incorrect information. You may have confused the person by specifically asking about Non-EEA citizens. Noajthan has been correct in his advice in this thread.

Here is how it works. You can start on either the EEA pathway to immigration or the UK pathway to immigration. One excludes the other. You came here under the EEA Regulations and then retained a right of residence (RoR) under those regulations. You therefore automatically acquired PR on completion of five years under the EEA Regulations.

If I acquired PR automatically depending on your response to my questions above, do I have to submit all documents showing ex era spouse and myself were exercising treaty right and a worker respectively to the HO when applying for the BC?

Yes. Submit this proof (should be the same proof as you used when you applied for your PR card) with your child's passport application. Just be aware that because the application is complex, due to your personal circumstances, that it may take longer than usual for the application to be approved.

And yes it may be confusing, the citizenship rules are not 'laws' as such but are based on the fact citizenship is a privilege; it is gifted at the Queen's pleasure as it depend on the Royal Prerogative.

My bad - I was thinking of passports when I added the above.
Correction...

Citizenship is and has always been something granted by Parliament, never by the Sovereign on their own. Originally, it required private Acts of Parliament for each person or family, such as the Sophia Naturalisation Act 1705. It is now granted by the Secretary of State under powers delegated by Parliament to them under the British Nationality Act 1981. The most that can be granted by the Queen-in-Council without Parliamentary approval is the status of a "denizen", which would, in my opinion, amount to the same as a person settled in the UK (i.e. equivalent to ILR/PR).

Passports are granted under the Royal Prerogative, but that, like most actions carried out by ministers, is subject to judicial review. Canada has seen some judicial developments in this specific area.

[dunca]

Many thanks Secret.simon and Noajoathan for your time. I completely take on your advises and will go ahead to apply for his passport directly.

Can I ask please. Should I just post the application to passport office directly or use the check and send service or what is the best method in this case. I guess the check and send won't understand my case and may not accept the application as their eyes will be glued to the PR card that was issued to me this month , thereby thinking that I became settled after child birth.

I presume it is of the utmost importance to include a well detailed cover letter. Please pleasw please, forgive me if I could naive. Can you draft me a template please, quoting the relevant EU regulation sections /statements that my situation is based on to back up the application.

Please don't know much about the regulations

Many thanks

[secret.simon]

Should I just post the application to passport office directly or use the check and send service

I would suggest sending by post. I would also suggest not sending your PR card as that would also confuse the Home Office Caseworker. Just the passport form and the evidence that was submitted for the PR application.

A cover letter is a good idea. I don't think there is a template as your circumstances are pretty specific.

[noajthan]

Many thanks Secret.simon and Noajoathan for your time. I completely take on your advises and will go ahead to apply for his passport directly.

Can I ask please. Should I just post the application to passport office directly or use the check and send service or what is the best method in this case. I guess the check and send won't understand my case and may not accept the application as their eyes will be glued to the PR card that was issued to me this month , thereby thinking that I became settled after child birth.

I presume it is of the utmost importance to include a well detailed cover letter. Please pleasw please, forgive me if I could naive. Can you draft me a template please, quoting the relevant EU regulation sections /statements that my situation is based on to back up the application.

Please don't know much about the regulations

Many thanks

Suggest read this post again as you assemble your application:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/britis ... l#p1242392
(See the pdf mentioned in the post).

Good question about C&S service, such an application may confuse them.
One minor plus is the secure mail cost is included in the fee.

And should you send your PR card?
If they associate it with September it won't help.
The proof of your PR is the type of evidence mentioned in the pdf in the link.

Agree, a cover letter would back up your application.

I'm on my cp just now so can' t help with letter at the moment. I may be able to put a few bullet points together later - you just need edited highlights of this topic really.

[noajthan]

Bullet points for a cover letter:

Mention:
Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006 and the Free Movement of
Persons Directive 2004/38/EC

See if anything in here to quote from:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _v12_0.pdf

Any quotes from here too - for RoR:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... s_v2_0.pdf

Explain you have settled status (since <date>) on basis of:
dependent family member of EEA national - for x years
PLUS
as family member who has RoR

Quote from relevant section/paragraph of UK child registration guidance and refer to BNA to state your child is BC and entitled to apply for passport directly - hence your application.
See https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... e_2015.pdf

Add some pleasant courtesy fluff;
give your full details & contact details if they have queries.

(Keep copy for your records!)

Does that help get you started ...

[noajthan]

Bullet points for a cover letter:

Mention:
Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006 and the Free Movement of
Persons Directive 2004/38/EC

...
...

Add some pleasant courtesy fluff;
give your full details & contact details if they have queries.

(Keep copy for your records!)

Does that help get you started ...

More on the cover letter...

Add an appendix to your letter that cross-references & itemises the evidence you supply.

Suggest use the info in this pdf as a guide on what to provide:
http://www.lbhf.gov.uk/Images/Document% ... 166072.pdf
- as well as anything else you originally used in PR card application.

[vinny]

Alternatively, if you acquired PR prior to child's birth, then child may also apply for confirmation of British Nationality status (fees).