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Ireland Visit

Forum to discuss all things Blarney | Ireland immigration

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samancia
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Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2015 8:09 pm

Ireland Visit

Post by samancia » Sat Sep 05, 2015 8:25 pm

Hi All,

I am a non-EU national currently holder of a F card from Belgium (which I believe is the equivalent of the Irish 4EUFam card).

I was informed by the Irish embassy in Brussels that I would need a visa to enter Ireland + pay the standard visa fee. However, based on the below guidance, it is clear that I will not need a visa.

Link : http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Re ... %20Citizen

Could you please perhaps guide me through on how I might proceed further?

Purpose of my visit to Ireland = short team, official/work purposes (attending a seminar)- in and out in 2 days with a return ticket back to Belgium. My wife (EU citizen) will not accompany me for the entire duration of my visit in Ireland.

I look forward to receiving your feedback.

Many thanks in advance.

mgb
Senior Member
Posts: 649
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:28 pm

Re: Ireland Visit

Post by mgb » Sat Sep 05, 2015 8:53 pm

If you got a
Carte F: Carte de séjour de membre de la famille d’un citoyen de l’Union

there is no visa required due to
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2012 ... e/en/print
section 3c

Problem is maybe a border officer who don't understand french.

samancia
Newly Registered
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2015 8:09 pm

Re: Ireland Visit

Post by samancia » Sat Sep 05, 2015 9:26 pm

mgb wrote:If you got a
Carte F: Carte de séjour de membre de la famille d’un citoyen de l’Union

there is no visa required due to
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2012 ... e/en/print
section 3c

Problem is maybe a border officer who don't understand french.

Dear MGB

Many thanks for your swift reply.

Indeed it is Carte F

However, perhaps one other issue to clarify :
Do you know if I am allowed to travel alone/all by myself - without being accompanied by my spouse?

The reason being - I just came across other posts on this forum where people have been quoting Directive 2004/38/EC - Article 3 - which mentions that the spouse must travel / accompany me for the entire duration of the visit.

This would mean that for my every single business visits/conferences, I will have to ask my spouse to join me...

I also downloaded the 20014/38/EC Directive just now which states, under Article 3:

1. This Directive shall apply to all Union citizens who move to or reside in a Member State other
than that of which they are a national, and to their family members as defined in point 2 of Article 2
who accompany or join them.



This means I will not be able to do business trips alone without being accompanied by spouse...which is not feasible. His employer will not approve frequent absences.

What would you advise in my situation, please?

Thanks in advance.

mgb
Senior Member
Posts: 649
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:28 pm

Re: Ireland Visit

Post by mgb » Sat Sep 05, 2015 9:55 pm

There is no precondition in irish law about accompany of the eea citizen.
Due to Article 37 of the directive the member states can handle eea citizen and family members more favourable than defined in the directive.
Btw. take a printout of the linked law with you.

mgb
Senior Member
Posts: 649
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:28 pm

Re: Ireland Visit

Post by mgb » Sat Sep 05, 2015 10:27 pm

No precondition for RC holders.

samancia
Newly Registered
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2015 8:09 pm

Re: Ireland Visit

Post by samancia » Sat Sep 05, 2015 10:56 pm

mgb wrote:There is no precondition in irish law about accompany of the eea citizen.
Due to Article 37 of the directive the member states can handle eea citizen and family members more favourable than defined in the directive.
Btw. take a printout of the linked law with you.

Dear MGB,

Many thanks again for your swift reply.
I am grateful for your invaluable comments.

For sake of clarity, I am summarizing below our discussions/conclusions so that other readers can also benefit from it.

1.1 In the Irish legislation, SI No. 417/2012 - it is not a requirement to have EU spouse accompanied with you.

Article 3 (c) non-nationals who are family members of a Union citizen and holders of a document called “Residence card of a family member of a Union citizen”, as referred to in Article 10 of the Directive of 2004,


1.2 The same rules of SI 417/2012 also mirror the information available on inis.gov.ie website :

Link:

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Re ... %20Citizen


Residence card of a family member of a European Union Citizen

If you are:
*a family member of a European Union citizen, and
*a holder of a document called “Residence card of a family member of a Union citizen” as referred to in Article 10 of Directive 2004/38/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 29 April 2004 on the right of citizens of the Union and their family members to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member State,

-> You are not subject to an Irish visa requirement.
If you require guidance on whether a card that you hold falls within the terms of the Directive, as implemented by the Member State concerned, you should contact the appropriate issuing authority of that Member State.




2. The Directive 2004/38/EC however requires that the EU Spouse must accompany the non-EU spouse.

Article 3 - This Directive shall apply to all Union citizens who move to or reside in a Member State other than that of which they are a national, and to their family members as defined in point 2 of Article 2 who accompany or join them.



Based on 1. and 2. above - these rules contradict each other.
The Irish law is less stricter than the Directive 2004/38/EC itself


Furthermore,

3. Article 37 of the Directive 2004/38/EC which states that, as correctly pointed in our above post, the Directive 2004/38/EC would allow the member state to implement rules which are more favourable than defined in the Directive.

Article 37
More favourable national provisions:
The provisions of this Directive shall not affect any laws, regulations or administrative provisions
laid down by a Member State which would be more favourable to the persons covered by this
Directive.




Do you agree?
Many thanks again. You have been extremely helpful.

mgb
Senior Member
Posts: 649
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:28 pm

Re: Ireland Visit

Post by mgb » Sun Sep 06, 2015 12:02 am

Right and if you take a printout of SI 417/2012 with you, you can show every ignorant irish border officer that you have the right to enter visafree and there is no clause about accompanying.

samancia
Newly Registered
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2015 8:09 pm

Re: Ireland Visit

Post by samancia » Sun Sep 06, 2015 8:32 am

mgb wrote:Right and if you take a printout of SI 417/2012 with you, you can show every ignorant irish border officer that you have the right to enter visafree and there is no clause about accompanying.
Many thanks MGB

samancia
Newly Registered
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2015 8:09 pm

Re: Ireland Visit

Post by samancia » Tue Sep 15, 2015 3:40 pm

I was informed by the Irish Embassy today that I would need to apply for a visa + pay also EUR 60,00 visa fee

:(

mominshah
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Posts: 24
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 10:18 pm

Re: Ireland Visit

Post by mominshah » Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:16 am

Hi there,
I am a non EU national and i have a Permanent residence which is issued on an A4 sheet not on the passport , what i want to know is that if i could travel to ireland on my documents without a visa ? Thanks in advance

mgb
Senior Member
Posts: 649
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:28 pm

Re: Ireland Visit

Post by mgb » Wed Sep 16, 2015 2:18 pm

It is a little bit problematic. Permanent residence cards from a other eu country as referred in article 19 of the directive are not covered by irish law.

mgb
Senior Member
Posts: 649
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:28 pm

Re: Ireland Visit

Post by mgb » Wed Sep 16, 2015 2:21 pm

samancia wrote:I was informed by the Irish Embassy today that I would need to apply for a visa + pay also EUR 60,00 visa fee

:(
Did you point at
S.I. No. 417/2012 - Immigration Act 2004 (Visas) Order 2012.

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