Sisters Tibetan fiance wants to live and work in the UK

[ManWithoutAPlan]

Hi,

My sister (British born and resident) got engaged to a Tiben refugee earlier this year. He now has his 'green' documents (whatever they are), but seems to be under the impression that he cannot just come over. I know UK law can change , so I thought a current question would be more accurate.

She went to see him last week, and is now feeling down because she has to wait until she can see him next.

Just in case she has misinterpreted something in the law, what is the best way to get him in this country so he can gain citizenship? He is able to work, and can speak English.

Thanks in advanced.

[secret.simon]

Marriage followed by a spouse visa or fiance visa that requires a marriage to occur in the UK within six months. He can not work on a fiance visa in the UK until after marriage. Eligibility requirements are listed here.

If he is a Tibetan refugee, I presume that he is resident in India. Or is it some other country?

I do not recognise the reference to "green documents". I presume that it is the equivalent of a refugee document that allows him to travel (he would not get a passport from China as he has fled Tibet and not the host country if he is not a citizen of that country) or it could be an exit visa that allows him to leave the country he is in (yes, they still exist in some countries, such as China). But it does not sound like a document issued by the UK government.

[ManWithoutAPlan]

Thanks for the quick reply. I'll have a look at the link now.

Apparently he does not have a passport, and it is a refugee document. He currently lives in India. My sister has just come back from living in the middle east for a few years, and is currently looking for a job.

Is it possible to get a sponsorship of some sort? Is not having a passport the biggest issue?

[secret.simon]

Is it possible to get a sponsorship of some sort?

He could look for a sponsor for a Tier 2 work visa. A list of current holders of companies and organisations who have a license to hire Tier 2 employees is here. Be aware that companies have very limited number of licenses. Obviously, if he is very good, any organisation that hires him, even one not on the list, can apply to the government for a license. But he has to be good enough for the company to go through the hassle of getting a license. He will also need to paid a certain amount (currently £36000 or more) for him to qualify to settle in the UK in the long run on his own steam.

My sister has just come back from living in the middle east for a few years, and is currently looking for a job.

She needs to be earning at least £18,600 a year, or alternatively, savings of £62,500, for her to sponsor a non-EU/EEA spouse. I believe (I could be wrong) that she will need to have held the job for at least six months before sponsoring him.

Alternatively, rather than get a job in the UK, if she were to get a job in any other country in the EEA (EU+Norway, Iceland & Liechtenstein), she would have the absolute right (i.e it can not be refused) to bring her spouse to that country without any salary restrictions under EU law. After having proven that the "center of her life" is in that EU country while exercising EU treaty rights, she would then have the right, under EU law, to bring her husband into the UK. This is called the Surinder Singh route and Ireland is the country of choice for exercising it, though it can be done in any EU country.

Just to underscore the point, your sister will have to marry him to progress this. Alternatively proof of living in a relationship akin to marriage (i.e. living together, with joint bills, bank accounts, etc) for at least two years would be required. Being engaged is not sufficient grounds to get a visa.

[Casa]

secret.simon has given you good advice. He is correct that 6 months employment in the UK would be required before submitting either a fiance visa application to marry here, or after marrying in the country where her fiance is legally resident and then applying for a spouse settlement visa. Alternatively, she would need to show that she has been earning the equivalent of £18,600 outside of the UK for the 6 months prior to submitting the application and has a confirmed job offer to start within 3 months of arrival...again with an annual salary of £18,600.
They should both be aware that there is no quick route to British citizenship. At present this would be a minimum of five years to permanent settlement before qualifying for BC.

[ManWithoutAPlan]

Wow, seems like there are lots of conditions and, I think I've made the wrong part the priority. She wants to get him in the UK asap. It's quite tough on her being so far apart. Citizenship is not the urgent factor.

She was earning more than £18,600pa outside of the UK (but outside of the EU). However, she is currently unemployed and looking for a job. What about being self-employed? Can it be done pro-rata?

I am curious about this 'Surinder Singh' option. Would she need to be a permanent resident of Ireland (for example)? How long would she need to be living there? Does she need to show earnings, etc?
I have read a few articles relating to this, but I'm not good with the legal terms and boundaries.

She intends to marry him when he comes to the UK (so family can be there, etc). However, this could be done outside the UK without 'too' much trouble.

Thanks for all the help so far

[secret.simon]

Wow, seems like there are lots of conditions

Immigration is not nearly as easy as what the Daily Mail makes it sound like.

She wants to get him in the UK asap.

Presumably after getting him to the UK, she would like to keep him in the UK?

What about being self-employed? Can it be done pro-rata?

To the best of my knowledge, self-employed people need to show at least one year's worth of income through self-employment before sponsoring a spouse. But I could be wrong.

I am curious about this 'Surinder Singh' option. Would she need to be a permanent resident of Ireland (for example)?

No

How long would she need to be living there?

At least three months, though the longer the better. And remember that crucially, she needs to be there with him. Provided they are married, Ireland would be obliged under EU law to issue him a visa. So, marriage will have to come before moving there.

Does she need to show earnings, etc?

No earnings requirement. But she needs to show that the "center of her life" is in Ireland, not the UK. So an Irish bank account, etc. The first post of this thread is a good guide to start with.

Thanks for the compliment, Casa.

[ManWithoutAPlan]

Thanks Casa,

Yes, when he comes to the UK, she wants him to stay. I doubt she'll let him leave

I think we have a the correct path to go. However, he doesn't have a passport. I am unsure how he can get to another EU country...? Whenever I type "refugee coming to EU without passport" in a search engine, I get lots of scare stories, as you can imagine...

[Wanderer]

Thanks Casa,

Yes, when he comes to the UK, she wants him to stay. I doubt she'll let him leave

I think we have a the correct path to go. However, he doesn't have a passport. I am unsure how he can get to another EU country...? Whenever I type "refugee coming to EU without passport" in a search engine, I get lots of scare stories, as you can imagine...

I think best if they marry in India if possible, she finds as job as outlined and waits six months, during that time he attempts get get a passport or Travel document and apply for spouse visa.

I wouldn't rely on Surinder Singh, it's seen as a universal panacea here but a lot of us feel UKVI is closing this door as tightly as they can, on the grounds that many are using it to 'circumvent the iUK immigration rules', which in most cases it quite plainly is. We've already seen denials on those grounds.

[secret.simon]

Whenever I type "refugee coming to EU without passport" in a search engine, I get lots of scare stories, as you can imagine...

That is probably because that is the wrong choice of words to search.

Firstly, I think I found what your sister's Tibetan fiance has been issued. The Green Book is not a travel document, but a document issued by the Tibetan Government-in-exile. However, he can apply to the Tibetan Government in Exile to request the Indian Government to issue him a travel document. However, India is not a signatory to the 1951 Convention on Refugees, so it is not very clear as to the nature of the document that he would be issued and its international recognition.

He might, depending on his age & family circumstance, also be an Indian citizen and hence eligible for an Indian passport, though whether he wishes to exercise it is a matter for him.

Once he has a travel document, either a refugee travel document or an Indian passport, he can travel based on that. First-hand experience of Indian bureaucracy suggests to me that it would be between six months and two years for him to get such a travel document. It is only after he gets one of the travel documents listed above that your sister can start looking at sorting out the visa side of things.

[Wanderer]

Whenever I type "refugee coming to EU without passport" in a search engine, I get lots of scare stories, as you can imagine...

That is probably because that is the wrong choice of words to search.

Firstly, I think I found what your sister's Tibetan fiance has been issued. The Green Book is not a travel document, but a document issued by the Tibetan Government-in-exile. However, he can apply to the Tibetan Government in Exile to request the Indian Government to issue him a travel document. However, India is not a signatory to the 1951 Convention on Refugees, so it is not very clear as to the nature of the document that he would be issued and its international recognition.

He might, depending on his age & family circumstance, also be an Indian citizen and hence eligible for an Indian passport, though whether he wishes to exercise it is a matter for him.

Once he has a travel document, either a refugee travel document or an Indian passport, he can travel based on that. First-hand experience of Indian bureaucracy suggests to me that it would be between six months and two years that he would get such a travel document. It is only after he gets one of the travel documents listed above that your sister can start looking at sorting out the visa side of things.

Good research SS!

[secret.simon]

Brickbats and bouquets in a matter of hours.

Thank you, Wanderer.

[Wanderer]

Brickbats and bouquets in a matter of hours.

Thank you, Wanderer.

Ooo, great, I'm gonna read that link, love a good forum spat!!

[ManWithoutAPlan]

Thanks for he help guys. This all good food for thought.

Apparently, another option to get passed the passport path is getting a 'yellow book' as a student with my sister sponsoring him.

However, unless I'm grabbing at the wrong end of the stick here, as long as he can meet up with her and live somewhere in the EU for 6 months, and they can get married, even if he is there as a student?

[secret.simon]

It seems, from this site that the "yellow book" is the colloquial term for the refugee travel document issued by the Indian Government that I wrote about earlier. Essentially, he will have to work at getting it. That is a matter between him, the CTA (Tibetan Government-in-exile) and the Indian authorities. Your sister or the UK government or the EU authorities won't be able to do much.

Once he has that travel document (essentially like a passport), your sister can initiate the visa process.

But first, he must get a travel document, either a "yellow book" or an Indian passport on his own.

If he is married to an EEA citizen, like your sister, he does not need to be a student. He can come and live anywhere in the EEA but the UK purely on the basis of his marriage. They must live together in this non-UK EEA country for more than three months, with your sister exercising treaty rights. This has a very specific meaning. Have a look through the EEA Route applications forum and also google "Surinder Singh route".

[ManWithoutAPlan]

Again, thank you for all your help.

It now seems the toughest part is actually getting a travel document. Hopefully it will be easier than it sounds.

You've been a great help

[WomaninLove]

Hi ManWithoutAPlan,

Can you please keep us posted on how it goes with your sister and her fiancee.

I am in a very similar but slightly different position. I will be working in UK under a Tier 2 work visa. My fiancee is Tibetan currently living in India. It will be our 2 years anniversary soon and we are still working on being together. We now understand that Indian passport is not an option even though the law stated that Tibetan refugees born in certain period in India are entitled Indian citizenship, the passport office does not issue the passport to Tibetans. There are only 3 passports issued via court. (of course more Tibetans have indian passport but via other channels).

The solution that we are going for is that we will get married in India, then apply for a dependent visa with his yellow book. However I am not sure whether this is viable as the Yellow Book is not a passport so not recognised by other country. Therefore I am researching on this matter and stumbled upon your post.

It is frustrated to be apart with him for so long and not have a solution yet. I will be very grateful to know if your sister has figured out a workable way.

I will also be grateful if anyone can shin some light on this.

Thank you.