visa for joining family member in uk

[cheoxenham]

hi i hope im in the right section my son a british citizen is engaged to a new zealander they plan to marry in the uk if she can join him and they have a daughter 4 years old also born in nz who desperatly want to join my son here in the uk we have filled out the joining family application but is this the only way my future daughter in law can reside and Work in the UK. We dont understand the amount of money she is supposed to have being £22,000 for the application so my son if it is right is helping to sponsor her but we dont want to send application if she cannot meet the amount of money would she be allowed to have received as a gift money towards this amount? Also i was reading that my grandaughter may be able to apply for a british passport through her father as he is her guardian is this correct? We are just checking as application is over £900 and is non refundable so we really want to check all avenues. My son is here in the UK with me and his fiance and daughter are in new zealand. would really appreciate some help.

[Casa]

You've misunderstood. £22,000 is the minimum annual income level that your son must show as her sponsor + 1 child, although you don't need to include the child in the calculation if she is able to obtain British Citizenship, which would mean your son would only have to show £18,600 p.a income.
However, in order to enter the UK as your son's fiancee, she would have to apply for a fiancee visa and marry within 6 months of arrival. After the wedding she would apply for a spouse settlement visa on form FLR(M) which would grant her an initial 2.5 years of residence. Alternatively, they could marry in NZ and apply for a spouse settlement visa from there.
She will also have to pass the pre-entry A1 English test before submitting her application.
I will let others advise on what the procedure would be to apply for entry clearance for their daughter.

[cheoxenham]

thanks for response can i just ask can my son and his fiance jointly share the financial requirement eg my son is earning £16000 and if she has in savings £8,000 would this be acceptable. Also is the fiance application the UK Visa for family settlement VAF4A? Is this the correct form that she would still complete or is it another form?

[Casa]

thanks for response can i just ask can my son and his fiance jointly share the financial requirement eg my son is earning £16000 and if she has in savings £8,000 would this be acceptable. Also is the fiance application the UK Visa for family settlement VAF4A? Is this the correct form that she would still complete or is it another form?

Unfortunately, only savings over £16,000 will be considered. VAF4a is the correct form, but please be aware that unless your son is able to increase his earnings and show that higher level for the 6 month period prior to submitting the application, it will be refused.

[secret.simon]

she has in savings £8,000

Savings are taken into account in a different way.

The first £16,000 in savings are not taken into account. Then, for every £1 in income shortfall, £2.50 in savings are needed.

So, in this case, for a £2600 shortfall, she would need (£16000+(2.50*2600)) savings. That works out to £22500 in savings required.

Does your son's fiance have any British born grandparents? Even if she has one and she has the documentation to prove the ancestry (all the relevant birth and marriage certificates), she can qualify for an Ancestry visa in her own right. That route does not have any salary requirements.

She will also have to pass the pre-entry A1 English test before submitting her application.

New Zealanders are exempt from the language test.

[Casa]

Thanks secret.simon...I missed the language exemption.

[cheoxenham]

hi no she does not have any british ancestry at all. the difference then of the £16000 plus she has around £8,000 would be enough but is this amount that they show each year as my sons earnings of £16000 are fine but his fiance has really good job prospects in the uk once they are married she is earning over £20,000 at the moment in nz but of course will be giving up her job to come over to be with my son so what would happen then as they will be married within a month of her arriving if she gets her visa. Also is there any other way should could come on a work visa for herself as an alternative albeit she has her daughter but my son is willing to go to nz to bring her over seperatly and then could his fiance apply for a work visa? Its all so complicated they just want to be a family here for a few years then may move to australia in the future.

[secret.simon]

How old is she? If she is under 30 on the date of application, she may be eligible for a Youth Mobility visa. But that will strictly be for two years only and she will have to leave after that.

Can your son not take a part-time/weekend job to make up the £2600 difference? I had to do two jobs for about a year when getting my visas in place.

[cheoxenham]

just had a look at the visa you mentioned my question there is it says you cant have a child living with you or financially responsible for so the financial responsibility part is fine as my son would be financially responsible and he could go to nz to get his daughter legally of course but what about the part that says cannot have a child Living with you as my grandaughter would be living with both her mum and dad here once she got this work visa would that be allowed?

[Casa]

hi no she does not have any british ancestry at all. the difference then of the £16000 plus she has around £8,000 would be enough but is this amount that they show each year as my sons earnings of £16000 are fine but his fiance has really good job prospects in the uk once they are married she is earning over £20,000 at the moment in nz but of course will be giving up her job to come over to be with my son so what would happen then as they will be married within a month of her arriving if she gets her visa. Also is there any other way should could come on a work visa for herself as an alternative albeit she has her daughter but my son is willing to go to nz to bring her over seperatly and then could his fiance apply for a work visa? Its all so complicated they just want to be a family here for a few years then may move to australia in the future.

The £22,500 savings is required in addition to your sons's earnings. The Home Office won't take into account her earning potential. She could of course apply for a work permit if she feels she qualifies. It would be wise for your son to look into his daughter's right to British citizenship as this can take a considerable time.
I think you've misunderstood. This won't be applicable if your grandchild has British nationality.

[secret.simon]

If the grandchild was born out of wedlock (I know I sound like a disapproving matron from Downton Abbey, but the phrase is descriptive), a recent change in the law (September 2015) requires a DNA test in order to prove that the grandchild is a British citizen by descent and hence entitled to a British passport. A birth certificate won't be sufficient.

[Casa]

+1 secret.simon This was my concern over the length of time the BC application may take to process and issue a passport.

[cheoxenham]

hi my son is a british citizen other than by descent as he was born in australia and through this wonderful site we managed to get him his british passport so i am unsure about his daughter being able to get a british passport. what i need to check is , If my sons fiance does apply for the Youth mobility scheme which she is within the age group If my son goes to nz to collect his daughter legally and brings her here to live with us and his fiance applies for the visa can she do this as it specifies that she cannot apply if her child is financially dependant on her which she would not be as my son will be. but it says i quote
have children under 18 years old who are either living with them or financially
dependent upon them. Once my sons fiance is here is she allowed to live under the same roof or not? this is our worry as this would be a better course of action.

[cheoxenham]

If my sons fiance does apply for the Youth mobility scheme which she is within the age group If my son goes to nz to collect his daughter legally and brings her here to live with us and his fiance applies for the visa can she do this as it specifies that she cannot apply if her child is financially dependant on her which she would not be as my son will be. but it says i quote
have children under 18 years old who are either living with them or financially
dependent upon them. Once my sons fiance is here is she allowed to live under the same roof or not? this is our worry as this would be a better course of action. Please can someone help me on this i have read it all but that is the only issue

[secret.simon]

Your son's choices are being to look fewer and fewer to the point of there being none.

Is he by any chance on any benefits? Certain disability benefits can remove the financial requirements completely.

Has he looked at moving to another EU country, like Ireland? EU laws are more relaxed that UK immigration law. If he moves to another EU country and exercises treaty rights (by working or seeking work, for instance), he has the right to have his spouse and children join him. Then, if he can convince the UKV&I that the "center of his life" was in the EU country and not in the UK, he can bring them back with him to the UK. This is called the Surinder Singh route.

It does seem that his only other option may be to settle at the Antipodes himself.

[cheoxenham]

hi so can i get from your response even if he does bring his daughter here to live with him as his dependent child that his fiance would not be able to apply for the youth mobility work visa scheme even though he was financially looking after his daughter and if she obtained the work visa she could not live under the same roof?

[CR001]

if she obtained the work visa she could not live under the same roof?

No one has said this is the case.

The problem with what you are proposing is that the mother will not declare she has a dependent child, when she clearly does. She cannot then rely on the child later if she has not declared such. HO keeps all records and cross checks information. If she withholds the child information, it is false representation and deception.

As the child is currently an NZ citizen, your son would not just be able to 'bring the child over', even if British as the child will still be a dual citizen and resident in NZ. There are laws regarding removing children across borders and it is more than likely going to have to be a court order etc. obtained.

[cheoxenham]

hi sorry we would definitely not deceive anyone my sons fiance would be advising on her application that their daughter is residing with her father which he of course has a right. Their daughter is from NZ born and bred and we have a fantastic family lawyer who would of course deal with any paper work quickly for her to join her dad he would be flying out to nz to collect her. Is there anything illegal about this scenario a we would never contemplate doing anything unless it is totally above board. It really is in the descriptive on the work visa application saying  they cannot have children under 18 years old who are either living with them or financially dependent on them. so my theory to this is that my son will be the person supporting his daughter financially and their daughter would be living with her dad and not his fiance at the time of the application. Your views would be appreciated on this scenario. Our last hope.

[CR001]

If the child is unable to obtain a British passport, she will need a visa to return to the UK with her father. For this, he would have to show sole responsibility.

If she qualifies for a British Passport, the process takes many months and as already advised, DNA proof will be required to prove he is the father. Is he named on the child's birth certificate?

[cheoxenham]

yes he is on his daughters birth certificate. he is applying for parental responsibility which i have downloaded the forms which will be signed by both parents. Is his daughter not eligible to get a british passport through her father being a british citizen (other than by descent)?

[CR001]

Through which route/how/form did he apply for British Citizenship? What are the family links to the UK?

[secret.simon]

hi my son is a british citizen other than by descent as he was born in australia

If he was born in Australia, he is a British citizen by descent.

Is his daughter not eligible to get a british passport through her father being a british citizen (other than by descent)?

As a British citizen by descent, any children of his born overseas are not British citizens by birth and therefore are not entitled to a British passport. There are some provisions in the British Nationality Act 1981 that provide for registration of such children after residence in the UK for three years. But I am not fully au fait with them and I will wait for others to comment on them.

he is applying for parental responsibility which i have downloaded the forms which will be signed by both parents.

I believe that (and as CR001 has already stated) he needs to show sole parental responsibility, either by being the sole surviving parent or by court order of custody.