In Europe with non EU spouse. What can we do?

[wssw]

Hi everyone.

I am in Europe with my family. I have an EU passport, our young son has his EU passport, but my wife does not have hers. She is a Canadian without a visa.

We are starting to run a bit low on funds, but we don't want to give up on our plans just yet, so we're exploring our best course of action. I am a musician, so there isn't much chance of me being able to sponsor my wife's visa/right of abode/residency, especially for the UK. We have attempted the Surinder Singh route a couple of times, but it seems to be too reliant on me. Being able to support my family while paying rent, taxes, bills etc on one unqualified worker's wages seems impossible. Again, I'm the strongest link (as her British citizen husband), yet weakest (unqualified). So on top of running low on funds, we are running low on ideas.

You could say that the crux of the problem is the person qualified for a more stable job, my wife, is not able to work without a lot of bureaucracy that pertains to me exercising my rights somewhere, and doing that is the most difficult aspect! It's a self fulfilling prophecy.

So, we want to be in a situation where I AND my wife are able to work (she is a school teacher) no matter what EU country it is at this point. We are currently housesitting in France and her 90 days in the Schengen area is almost up.

I'm thinking Ireland might be our only option. Who's got ideas for us? Thanks!

[noajthan]

Hi everyone.

I am in Europe with my family. I have an EU passport, our young son has his EU passport, but my wife does not have hers. She is a Canadian without a visa.

We are starting to run a bit low on funds, but we don't want to give up on our plans just yet, so we're exploring our best course of action. I am a musician, so there isn't much chance of me being able to sponsor my wife's visa/right of abode/residency, especially for the UK. We have attempted the Surinder Singh route a couple of times, but it seems to be too reliant on me. Being able to support my family while paying rent, taxes, bills etc on one unqualified worker's wages seems impossible. Again, I'm the strongest link (as her British citizen husband), yet weakest (unqualified). So on top of running low on funds, we are running low on ideas.

You could say that the crux of the problem is the person qualified for a more stable job, my wife, is not able to work without a lot of bureaucracy that pertains to me exercising my rights somewhere, and doing that is the most difficult aspect! It's a self fulfilling prophecy.

So, we want to be in a situation where I AND my wife are able to work (she is a school teacher) no matter what EU country it is at this point. We are currently housesitting in France and her 90 days in the Schengen area is almost up.

I'm thinking Ireland might be our only option. Who's got ideas for us? Thanks!

Don't be too hard on your self.

For Surinder Singh (which seems your best bet) you do need to be exercising treaty rights for this to work out.
It can be as an employee or self-employed.
There is no minimum number of hours or salary specified in the rules.

You are a musician, so how about tutoring music.

Are you a native (or good) English speaker? If you go to a non-English speaking EU country think teaching English;
(ESOL qualification preferable ofcourse but can be obtained for modest investment of time & money).
- this could work well for your wife too.

Can you drive? - think: 'man with a van' &/or taxi work.

Once you are exercising rights, in a large or small way, your wife will have the right to work (or study) too. Cha-ching!

Suggest take a look at Malta as an alternative to Eire.

• English-speaking.
  Good climate!
  Tourist sector

- think: hotel work (season will be opening in April so it's good timing);
Also think: entertainment work, gigging, artist management & etc.

You could start here for Malta:
http://britcits.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/ ... guide.html

& see this blog - involves a Canadian spouse too:
https://anundividedfamilyinmalta.wordpress.com

Background on free movement to fill in the gaps:
http://ec.europa.eu/justice/policies/ci ... nt_low.pdf

Best of luck.

[wssw]

Hi everyone.

I am in Europe with my family. I have an EU passport, our young son has his EU passport, but my wife does not have hers. She is a Canadian without a visa.

We are starting to run a bit low on funds, but we don't want to give up on our plans just yet, so we're exploring our best course of action. I am a musician, so there isn't much chance of me being able to sponsor my wife's visa/right of abode/residency, especially for the UK. We have attempted the Surinder Singh route a couple of times, but it seems to be too reliant on me. Being able to support my family while paying rent, taxes, bills etc on one unqualified worker's wages seems impossible. Again, I'm the strongest link (as her British citizen husband), yet weakest (unqualified). So on top of running low on funds, we are running low on ideas.

You could say that the crux of the problem is the person qualified for a more stable job, my wife, is not able to work without a lot of bureaucracy that pertains to me exercising my rights somewhere, and doing that is the most difficult aspect! It's a self fulfilling prophecy.

So, we want to be in a situation where I AND my wife are able to work (she is a school teacher) no matter what EU country it is at this point. We are currently housesitting in France and her 90 days in the Schengen area is almost up.

I'm thinking Ireland might be our only option. Who's got ideas for us? Thanks!

Don't be too hard on your self.

For Surinder Singh (which seems your best bet) you do need to be exercising treaty rights for this to work out.
It can be as an employee or self-employed.
There is no minimum number of hours or salary specified in the rules.

You are a musician, so how about tutoring music.

Are you a native (or good) English speaker? If you go to a non-English speaking EU country think teaching English;
(ESOL qualification preferable ofcourse but can be obtained for modest investment of time & money).
- this could work well for your wife too.

Can you drive? - think: 'man with a van' &/or taxi work.

Once you are exercising rights, in a large or small way, your wife will have the right to work (or study) too. Cha-ching!

Suggest take a look at Malta as an alternative to Eire.

• English-speaking.
  Good climate!
  Tourist sector

- think: hotel work (season will be opening in April so it's good timing);
Also think: entertainment work, gigging, artist management & etc.

You could start here for Malta:
http://britcits.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/ ... guide.html

& see this blog - involves a Canadian spouse too:
https://anundividedfamilyinmalta.wordpress.com

Background on free movement to fill in the gaps:
http://ec.europa.eu/justice/policies/ci ... nt_low.pdf

Best of luck.

Thanks very much for your positive response! So much info. Excellent.

You're right about tutoring. That is sort of our plan if we do return to Ireland. I've already been in contact with a tutoring program. It's just a matter of finding a place to live. I looked this morning on the most popular site and one ad already had 1000 views 48 mins after it was posted! Having said that, now you've got me thinking about Malta, and I'm excited to do some research.

Only thing is, my wife's passport was stamped in Belgium in early November, so that means she only has until early February in the Schengen area, correct? Unless there's some kind of exception...

[noajthan]

Only thing is, my wife's passport was stamped in Belgium in early November, so that means she only has until early February in the Schengen area, correct? Unless there's some kind of exception...

Is it a short-stay visa (type C)? ie 90 days per 6 month period.

Anyway see Q7 here:
http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/wh ... ons_en.pdf

The thing is to be exercising treaty rights, ideally as a worker or self-employed, (in Belgium or Eire or Malta!) & then apply for a RC asap for your wife.
Then it doesn't matter about the Schengen visa expiring.

[wssw]

Only thing is, my wife's passport was stamped in Belgium in early November, so that means she only has until early February in the Schengen area, correct? Unless there's some kind of exception...

Is it a short-stay visa (type C)? ie 90 days per 6 month period.

Anyway see Q7 here:
http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/wh ... ons_en.pdf

The thing is to be exercising treaty rights, ideally as a worker or self-employed, (in Belgium or Eire or Malta!) & then apply for a RC asap for your wife.
Then it doesn't matter about the Schengen visa expiring.

It wasn't any kind of special visa. We simply flew into Brussels and they stamped her passport upon entry. That was Nov 5th.

[noajthan]

It seems very straightforward to obtain a Malta e-Residence card...

http://www.howtomalta.com/2014/02/how-t ... -card.html

[noajthan]

It wasn't any kind of special visa. We simply flew into Brussels and they stamped her passport upon entry. That was Nov 5th.

Did the border official not stamp (or annotate) the passport with an exit date as well?
Suggest dig into that to be sure.

If you're not moving on it might be advisable to file a RC application.

[wssw]

It wasn't any kind of special visa. We simply flew into Brussels and they stamped her passport upon entry. That was Nov 5th.

Did the border official not stamp (or annotate) the passport with an exit date as well?
Suggest dig into that to be sure.

If you're not moving on it might be advisable to file a RC application.

The border official stamped the passport with an entry date only.

Are you suggesting we apply for a residence card for Malta before we go (if we go there)?

[noajthan]

The border official stamped the passport with an entry date only.

Are you suggesting we apply for a residence card for Malta before we go (if we go there)?

No, you would have to be there. But easy when you are there.

Googling 'musician work malta' brings up bunch of leads to follow.

[wssw]

The border official stamped the passport with an entry date only.

Are you suggesting we apply for a residence card for Malta before we go (if we go there)?

No, you would have to be there. But easy when you are there.

Googling 'musician work malta' brings up bunch of leads to follow.

So, by applying for the residence card, my wife can void the 90 day visa (Malta is in the Schengen area)?

[noajthan]

So, by applying for the residence card, my wife can void the 90 day visa (Malta is in the Schengen area)?

Yes, sort of - once you are there you can apply for the RC, on 1 of various grounds; (work; self-employment; self-sufficiency & etc).

But note that, if you plan to return to UK in the end, the UK will (controversially) only accept work/self-employment type activities as evidence of having shifted your 'centre of life'.

And yes, Malta is in the Schengen area.
What's not to like!

[wssw]

So, by applying for the residence card, my wife can void the 90 day visa (Malta is in the Schengen area)?

Yes, sort of - once you are there you can apply for the RC, on 1 of various grounds; (work; self-employment; self-sufficiency & etc).

But note that, if you plan to return to UK in the end, the UK will (controversially) only accept work/self-employment type activities as evidence of having shifted your 'centre of life'.

And yes, Malta is in the Schengen area.
What's not to like!

Very nice. So once we arrive in Malta, theoretically, my wife would have until Feb 5th (when her 90 days are up), which means, before that, I should probably try to land a job and get the application for her RC on the go.

We probably would return to the UK afterward, unless of course we like Malta too much. Actually, I shouldn't say "return" to the UK, as we have lived mostly in Canada (I was born in Glasgow, hence the UK citizenship).

[ALKB]

Hi everyone.

I am in Europe with my family. I have an EU passport, our young son has his EU passport, but my wife does not have hers. She is a Canadian without a visa.

We are starting to run a bit low on funds, but we don't want to give up on our plans just yet, so we're exploring our best course of action. I am a musician, so there isn't much chance of me being able to sponsor my wife's visa/right of abode/residency, especially for the UK. We have attempted the Surinder Singh route a couple of times, but it seems to be too reliant on me. Being able to support my family while paying rent, taxes, bills etc on one unqualified worker's wages seems impossible. Again, I'm the strongest link (as her British citizen husband), yet weakest (unqualified). So on top of running low on funds, we are running low on ideas.

You could say that the crux of the problem is the person qualified for a more stable job, my wife, is not able to work without a lot of bureaucracy that pertains to me exercising my rights somewhere, and doing that is the most difficult aspect! It's a self fulfilling prophecy.

So, we want to be in a situation where I AND my wife are able to work (she is a school teacher) no matter what EU country it is at this point. We are currently housesitting in France and her 90 days in the Schengen area is almost up.

I'm thinking Ireland might be our only option. Who's got ideas for us? Thanks!

In all of that and before you move anywhere, you might want to research the laws of that specific country regarding foreign-qualified teachers.

Otherwise you might end up with her unable to work in her profession, not due to lack of permission to work in general but because she might need to pass tests or retrain to a certain extent.

[wssw]

Hi everyone.

I am in Europe with my family. I have an EU passport, our young son has his EU passport, but my wife does not have hers. She is a Canadian without a visa.

We are starting to run a bit low on funds, but we don't want to give up on our plans just yet, so we're exploring our best course of action. I am a musician, so there isn't much chance of me being able to sponsor my wife's visa/right of abode/residency, especially for the UK. We have attempted the Surinder Singh route a couple of times, but it seems to be too reliant on me. Being able to support my family while paying rent, taxes, bills etc on one unqualified worker's wages seems impossible. Again, I'm the strongest link (as her British citizen husband), yet weakest (unqualified). So on top of running low on funds, we are running low on ideas.

You could say that the crux of the problem is the person qualified for a more stable job, my wife, is not able to work without a lot of bureaucracy that pertains to me exercising my rights somewhere, and doing that is the most difficult aspect! It's a self fulfilling prophecy.

So, we want to be in a situation where I AND my wife are able to work (she is a school teacher) no matter what EU country it is at this point. We are currently housesitting in France and her 90 days in the Schengen area is almost up.

I'm thinking Ireland might be our only option. Who's got ideas for us? Thanks!

In all of that and before you move anywhere, you might want to research the laws of that specific country regarding foreign-qualified teachers.

Otherwise you might end up with her unable to work in her profession, not due to lack of permission to work in general but because she might need to pass tests or retrain to a certain extent.

You are right. Thanks for the reminder.

[ALKB]

So, by applying for the residence card, my wife can void the 90 day visa (Malta is in the Schengen area)?

Yes, sort of - once you are there you can apply for the RC, on 1 of various grounds; (work; self-employment; self-sufficiency & etc).

But note that, if you plan to return to UK in the end, the UK will (controversially) only accept work/self-employment type activities as evidence of having shifted your 'centre of life'.

And yes, Malta is in the Schengen area.
What's not to like!

Very nice. So once we arrive in Malta, theoretically, my wife would have until Feb 5th (when her 90 days are up), which means, before that, I should probably try to land a job and get the application for her RC on the go.

We probably would return to the UK afterward, unless of course we like Malta too much. Actually, I shouldn't say "return" to the UK, as we have lived mostly in Canada (I was born in Glasgow, hence the UK citizenship).

Just to give yourself a bit more time and security, you could put in an application for RC as jobseeker. While it's not very likely to be granted, the authorities may take up to 6 months to decide (don't know about average processing times in Malta, Ireland takes quite long, I hear) and while they are processing the application you and your wife are absolutely fine to stay. Once you find a job you can add a copy of your contract and your pay slip(s) to the RC application. A negative decision, should she receive one, will not impact her immigration history negatively, just apply again with proof of exercising treaty rights.

That will give you a bit more time to find a job (might have to suck it up for a bit and wash dishes - as long as it's at least 16 hours/week this will make you a qualified person) I don't know anything about the state of Malta's economy but tourism is quite strong and there are plenty of English language schools popular with Europeans who want to learn English in the sun and the season for all that is starting soon.

One important point: until you find a job, you are not eligible for any sort of benefits, so running out of money could be a real problem in this endeavour (how will you rent affordable accommodation in a country where you have no credit history?). Also make sure you have some sort of health insurance until you find a job, again, research the country's health system beforehand or you might find yourself with huge medical bills if any of you falls ill.

Good luck!

[noajthan]

Just noticed that Malta (& most of rest of Europe, including Belgium) has visa-free entry for Canadian passport holders, so not even a Schengen visa is required to enter the country.

[wssw]

Just noticed that Malta (& most of rest of Europe, including Belgium) has visa-free entry for Canadian passport holders, so not even a Schengen visa is required to enter the country.

My wife's passport still got stamped though, and from what I understand, as a Canadian she can only be in the Schengen area for 90 days from the date of said stamp.

[wssw]

Does anyone know about Canadians with EU spouses being able to stay in the Schengen area for more than 90 days? (90 days per country VS 90 days in area as a whole). Is this link valid? Someone on another thread has been insisting that my wife would have 90 days per country.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 3Aen%3APDF

Maybe I should start a new thread....

[ALKB]

Only thing is, my wife's passport was stamped in Belgium in early November, so that means she only has until early February in the Schengen area, correct? Unless there's some kind of exception...

Is it a short-stay visa (type C)? ie 90 days per 6 month period.

Anyway see Q7 here:
http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/wh ... ons_en.pdf

The thing is to be exercising treaty rights, ideally as a worker or self-employed, (in Belgium or Eire or Malta!) & then apply for a RC asap for your wife.
Then it doesn't matter about the Schengen visa expiring.

It wasn't any kind of special visa. We simply flew into Brussels and they stamped her passport upon entry. That was Nov 5th.

As a Canadian on a (Schengen) visa waiver entry - which she seems to have received - she can stay in the Schengen area 90 days out of 180, on her own or with you.

No country is going to throw you or her out, seriously, nobody has time to actively run after non-visa national spouses of EEA nationals.

The issues start when you go over 90 days and the EU national partner is not exercising treaty rights, no application is pending and you are running out of money. Otherwise, with lots of savings, you could apply for her residence card based on self-sufficiency but as long as you are not a qualified person, she will have trouble getting the right to work and as you are not eligible for benefits until you work, the problems are mostly practical rather than legal. As you have a small child I am sure you want to avoid ending up living under a bridge.

Of course, there might be further trouble ahead if you at some point decide to exit Schengen without having been employed/applied for RC and when the border officer goes to stamp her exit date on the passport page with her entry date, they will see that she stayed longer than 90 days. That might or might not mean difficulties entering Schengen in the future.

[ALKB]

Does anyone know about Canadians with EU spouses being able to stay in the Schengen area for more than 90 days? (90 days per country VS 90 days in area as a whole). Is this link valid? Someone on another thread has been insisting that my wife would have 90 days per country.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 3Aen%3APDF

Maybe I should start a new thread....

It's 90 days in Schengen, not 90 days per Schengen country.

Is your wife under 30?

If so, she might be able to apply for a working holiday visa in the Netherlands, which would give her the opportunity to work (in the Netherlands) and you time to sort things out regarding becoming a qualified person and switching her to RC.

http://www.workpermit.com/netherlands/e ... oliday.htm

[wssw]

Does anyone know about Canadians with EU spouses being able to stay in the Schengen area for more than 90 days? (90 days per country VS 90 days in area as a whole). Is this link valid? Someone on another thread has been insisting that my wife would have 90 days per country.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 3Aen%3APDF

Maybe I should start a new thread....

It's 90 days in Schengen, not 90 days per Schengen country.

Is your wife under 30?

If so, she might be able to apply for a working holiday visa in the Netherlands, which would give her the opportunity to work (in the Netherlands) and you time to sort things out regarding becoming a qualified person and switching her to RC.

http://www.workpermit.com/netherlands/e ... oliday.htm

Thanks for the suggestion! We're looking into that currently, albeit I'd be surprised if she qualified while she has a dependent.

[ALKB]

Does anyone know about Canadians with EU spouses being able to stay in the Schengen area for more than 90 days? (90 days per country VS 90 days in area as a whole). Is this link valid? Someone on another thread has been insisting that my wife would have 90 days per country.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 3Aen%3APDF

Maybe I should start a new thread....

It's 90 days in Schengen, not 90 days per Schengen country.

Is your wife under 30?

If so, she might be able to apply for a working holiday visa in the Netherlands, which would give her the opportunity to work (in the Netherlands) and you time to sort things out regarding becoming a qualified person and switching her to RC.

http://www.workpermit.com/netherlands/e ... oliday.htm

Thanks for the suggestion! We're looking into that currently, albeit I'd be surprised if she qualified while she has a dependent.

Would an EU spouse and child even count as dependents? Neither of your would need a residence permit to stay... Clearly a question to ask the Dutch authorities.