PR/comprehensive sickness insurance/national health insuranc

[Rebs222]

Hi All,

I have a question in relation to Permanent Residency in the UK and comprehensive sickness insurance. I'd be really grateful for your help.

I've been living in the UK for 8 years now. 5 of those years were as a student, 1 year as an intern (sometimes paid, sometimes unpaid), and now I've been working for around 2 years. I've been enquiring about PR and came across the CSI - something that I suspect comes as a shock to many, as it seems that a lot of people have no idea that this is requirement (and I was one of them). As a student, I was only temporarily covered by my country's equivalent of NHS (I think for around 2 years, out of 5) - unfortunately my parents don't live there either so I have no ties with their healthcare system anymore. I only recently bought private medical insurance just to be on the safe side, but it seems that those 5 years, plus 1 year as an intern (I'm not sure if it counts, and not sure if part-time work counts???) don't count towards the residency period which, as you may appreciate, is truly infuriating. This is especially so given that I cannot have any NHS-style healthcare insurance in my native country because I've never worked there. My question is: is there really absolutely no way of getting PR in my situation? I've only been working for 2 years, so that's not enough for PR, and as far as I understand the self-sufficient status also requires the CSI - so basically am I right in thinking the only thing I could possibly do is to wait another 3 years?

I'd also like to add that during those 5 years as a student I wasn't actually self-sufficient - I was entirely provided for by my parents. Does this matter?

Thanks so much for your help - I have been given various contradictory responses.

Rebs

[LilyLalilu]

Unfortunately, as per the EEA regulations, student years only count towards PR if you held CSI or a non-UK EHIC during those years. If you did not have this, then you were not exercising treaty rights and the years do not count towards your time for PR. Were you maybe working full- or part-time during your student years and could claim having excercised treaty rights as a worker instead? That's how I got around the CSI requirement..
If that's not the case then it looks like you will unfortunately have to wait a few more years to attain PR status.

[Rebs222]

Thanks so much for a quick response. I had a small part-time job but not a regular one and that didn't cover 5 years - so I guess it doesn't count?

Just a quick follow-up question: what do you mean by treaty rights (are we talking about the Treaty of Rome)? If I didn't exercise the treaty rights, then on what legal basis did I reside in the UK?

Thanks!

Rebs

[noajthan]

Hi All,

I have a question in relation to Permanent Residency in the UK and comprehensive sickness insurance. I'd be really grateful for your help.

...

Thanks so much for your help - I have been given various contradictory responses.

Rebs

It's a longshot but here goes...

Firstly:
There was a transitional arrangement made at the time the requirement to hold CSI began to be enforced, ie during 2012.

That is holders of a RC issued to them as a student are not required to demonstrate they had CSI (or foreign-issued EHIC).

So the $64,000 question is: do you have such a RC, issued to you in or before 2012

Secondly, the only other possible option would be:
to apply as the dependent family member of an EEA national if your parent/s were in UK & continuously exercising treaty rights (eg as a worker) at the same time as you were in UK studying.
(Assuming your parent/s are EEA national/s).

So were they present in UK on that basis & at the relevant time

[Rebs222]

Unfortunately none of this applies to me... My parents live abroad, but not in the UK...

Just to follow up on my other question - how can it be that I have not been exercising treaty rights?

[LilyLalilu]

EEA citizens have an initial 3 month right to reside. After this period they are required to 'exercise treaty rights' which means doing one of the following:

- working
- being self-employed
- studying + have sufficient funds and CSI
- being self-sufficient (= have enough funds and CSI)
- job seeking (usually for no longer than 6 months unless exceptional circumstances apply)

As long as an EEA national does that they have an extended right to reside past the initial three-month period.
However, in reality there are no checks on whether EEA nationals who are in the UK for longer than the initial three months actually exercise treaty rights and their stay is not seen as illegal if they don't. Problems therefore normally only occur once they decide to apply for a Document Certifying PR as some of them (especially students unaware of the not very well advertised CSI requirement) did not actually exercise treaty rights as per the EEA regulations 2006.
So the fact that you don't seem to have been exercising treaty rights during some of your time in the UK won't cause any legal problems but will mean that your qualifying period for Permanent Residence unfortunately starts later than expected which I understand must be rather frustrating.

[secret.simon]

For the purposes of PR, you need five continuous years of exercising treaty rights in any combination of the ways listed in Chapter III, Article 7 of Directive 2004/38/EC. As a Directive of the EU, it is applicable by transposition in all EEA countries.

That Directive was passed in 2004, with the UK implementing it into UK law by transposition in 2006.

a) Working: Someone is a 'worker' if they perform work which is 'effective and genuine' and not on such a small scale as to be purely 'marginal and ancillary'. The DWP classifies work that results in weekly earnings of less than £153 as marginal, but the Home Office has not yet taken that view. You are also classified as working if you were working and take maternity leave. (Paragraph a)

b) Seeking work: If you are registered with Job Centre Plus or you have proof that you were actively looking for work (email trail, letters inviting you to interviews), that counts.

c) Studying: Studying counts if the EEA student has either private health insurance or an EHIC card from another EEA country (Paragraph c).

d) Self-sufficiency: The EEA citizen needs to prove that he will not be a burden on the social assistance system of the state and also requires comprehensive sickness insurance (Paragraph b).

The last two requirements have required comprehensive sickness insurance since inception in 2006, but it only started being enforced since 2011, when the first PR cases started coming through.

As LilyLalilu points out, technically, you have no legal right to stay in the UK on the basis of being an EEA citizen if you are not exercising one of these rights. But that is seldom checked, except when applying for various paperwork from the Home Office, such as a Family Permit or a PR Card, etc.

[noajthan]

Unfortunately none of this applies to me... My parents live abroad, but not in the UK...

Just to follow up on my other question - how can it be that I have not been exercising treaty rights?

Have you double-checked whether you had a RC issued to you as a student?

Otherwise it's going to be a case of waiting until your PR clock has run its course.

[NicolettaL]

[quote="secret.simon"]For the purposes of PR, you need five continuous years of exercising treaty rights in any combination of the ways listed in Chapter III, Article 7 of Directive 2004/38/EC. As a Directive of the EU, it is applicable by transposition in all EEA countries.


c) Studying: Studying counts if the EEA student has either private health insurance or an EHIC card from another EEA country (Paragraph c).

Hi
I have two questions on this regard

1- When studying for a MSc in the UK, when does the MSc period begin exactly? First day of lessons (eg 2st of November) or payment of the tuitions (eg August)? Also when does it end? When the dissertation is handed in? (eg OCtober) or when the results are handed out (eg April following year)?

2- I was studying from 2010 to 2012 and I was covered by EHIC
However, my card has now expired and I have renewed it and trashed the old one.
How can I proof that I was under health insurance then?
Is there a record of sort at the EHIC database?

Thanks
NIcoletta

[LilyLalilu]

1) Neither. The first day of the postgraduate academic year (academic calendars are available on the uni websites and specify this - usually September) to the date your MSc award was made by the conferment board (usually Oct/Nov or March/April). You can easily get the correct dates by emailing your University Registry Office; they can issue you with a letter confirming your course dates.
2) Can you ask the health authorities in your country of origin for a letter confirming your level of cover? The Home Office usually accepts these type of letters as a substitute for a lost EHIC.

[Rebs222]

Thanks everyone for your help. I find this baffling - surely my university should have communicated this to me, i.e. the legal basis for my stay? I'm pretty sure virtually none of my friends knew about CSI! How odd.

I know in law ignorance is no excuse, but I have applied to attend a UK university via UCAS and should have been informed about the legal basis on which I can study in the country, just like non-EU students are. But that's water under the bridge now.

On the registration certificate, I have never applied for it - can it be issued automatically? Do you get a piece of paper? Could I have it and be unaware of it?

Thanks!

[noajthan]

Thanks everyone for your help. I find this baffling - surely my university should have communicated this to me, i.e. the legal basis for my stay? I'm pretty sure virtually none of my friends knew about CSI! How odd.

I know in law ignorance is no excuse, but I have applied to attend a UK university via UCAS and should have been informed about the legal basis on which I can study in the country, just like non-EU students are. But that's water under the bridge now.

On the registration certificate, I have never applied for it - can it be issued automatically? Do you get a piece of paper? Could I have it and be unaware of it?

Thanks!

You would know if you had a student RC as you would have applied for it.

CSI is not really about using the NHS. So if 'habitually resident' in UK (as you must have been) you can use NHS services.

And university staff are not immigration officials (nor any part of a government agency/Home Office) so they may not necessarily have informed everyone about CSI.
Although I have seen information leaflets from certain universities with clued-up & proactive international student support groups that do mention all of these things.

Unfortunately it seems you are an innocent abroad & have slipped through the cracks. You are not alone.

But without that RC or other exemption & without option of claiming sponsorship by a parent, sadly it leaves you in a bit of a pickle.

You mentioned you were dependent on your parents even as a student. However even the qualified person category of 'self-sufficient' person (living on 'own means' even if actually via generous parents) would require that you had had CSI.

It looks like you will have to hang on (and continue exercising treaty rights) until you have a valid 5-year period that qualifies for acquiring PR.

PS As you are working now you clearly have a valid legal status in UK;
noone is going to come bashing down your door & carting you off just because you didn't have CSI in the past.

Good luck.

[Rebs222]

This all makes sense. I might be in more than 'a bit of a pickle' if the UK leaves the EU though.

Thanks very much for your help!