Questionable information by Nationality checking service

[Wacky]

Hi All

I am new here. I would like to start off by saying thank you and even though I did not post any questions I searched your forums extensively and the advice here proved invaluable when it came to filling the application form and abating any doubts that I had.

First of all I like to provide you with some background information. I am British (born and bred here) my wife is from Pakistan. She has been in the united kingdom for nearly 7 years now (she has indefinite leave to remain) and I have only just decided to apply for her citizenship. She has never left the country since she came here, as of yet has never worked in the UK, has no criminal convictions and we have two gorgeous kids in the intermittent period.

My wife came over in 2009 on her initial Pakistani passport which expired in April 2014. In April 2015 (a year later after her original passport expired) I applied for a new Pakistani passport as I thought various organisations may not except her expired passport as form of ID. When it came to the application at the nationality checking service the officer said that I need to show evidence that my wife was in the country in the year not covered by the two passports. I did pose the question to the officer, how was she supposed to leave the country if she had no passport? Please note the passports are sequentially numbered so her second passport has the same passport number as the first with the exception of the last digit which is 2, instead of 1.

The officer suggested I ask my local NHS surgery for a letter showing that my wife attended appointments during the year not covered by the 2 passports. I have asked the local surgery and they say it may take up to 6 weeks. The officer will kindly hold back the application to the home office for a short while until I provide the letter to her, if I can't deliver the letter to her, she will forward the application and I will have to respond if the Home Office ask for further evidence.

Now sorry for the rather long prelude, but has the officer got it right? is this all necessary (additional documentation) when my wife clearly couldn't have left the country without her passports?

[Chinho2k]

I'm sure I've read somewhere in the guide that in the absence of the travel documents, further evidence in the form of tax or medical records etc may be required, but as a belt and braces there is no harm in providing both passports and further supporting evidence to avoid delays in the process. (I'm no expert so please wait for expert opinions).

[Wacky]

I'm sure I've read somewhere in the guide that in the absence of the travel documents, further evidence in the form of tax or medical records etc may be required, but as a belt and braces there is no harm in providing both passports and further supporting evidence to avoid delays in the process. (I'm no expert so please wait for expert opinions).

Hi Chinho2k, thanks for your quick response and I'd just like to add that I that I totally agree that its better to be safe than sorry, therefore providing the additional information is a no brainier. And thinking about it I guess my wife could have left the country using travel documents.

There is a second concern on my behalf (most probably due to my ignorance). The nationality checking service officer didn't apply for naturalisation for my wife based on marriage to a British Citizen. She applied fro naturalisation based on her own residence in the United Kingdom. I am not fully certain as to the wisdom behind why the officer did this (perhaps due the to fact your aloud a longer period, 450 days, outside the country), but I do know my wife has been here long enough to satisfy both conditions. My only concern is that if she has applied for her naturalisation based on her own residence in the UK, would my wife's employment, or lack thereof, have an impact on this or is this something not considered?

[CR001]

Employment is NOT a requirement for citizenship. She qualifies under both routes and the result will be the same if granted, it makes no difference really on 5 or 3 year route.

[ohara]

There is no requirement for employment regardless of marriage to a British citizen or not

It is probably right that the NCS adviser asked for proof that your wife was in the UK for the year gap. I acquired permanent residence in 2012, but only applied for naturalisation this year, and I had to include proof that I was still resident in the UK for the period 2012-2016. I used P60's for this.

[Wacky]

Employment is NOT a requirement for citizenship. She qualifies under both routes and the result will be the same if granted, it makes no difference really on 5 or 3 year route.

Thanks for the clarification CR001, it was just an assumption on my behalf that if someone is applying for naturalisation based on their own residence then they should be self sustainable. however given that they don't ask for the partner's employment details & history, when applying for naturalisation based on marriage to a British citizen, I guess in hindsight it makes absolute sense that her self-sustainability or financial status (as long as she hasn't been declared bankrupt) is irrelevant applying for applying for naturalisation based on their own residence.

Ps.CR001 you deserve a medal given your contribution to the forum and the help you have given to many lost souls like myself.

[Wacky]

There is no requirement for employment regardless of marriage to a British citizen or not

It is probably right that the NCS adviser asked for proof that your wife was in the UK for the year gap. I acquired permanent residence in 2012, but only applied for naturalisation this year, and I had to include proof that I was still resident in the UK for the period 2012-2016. I used P60's for this.

Hi Ohara, I am assuming you didn't have a valid passport or was a citizen of the EU (probably Irish) as under page 15 of the Home Office Guide AN it states,

Guide AN, page 15

APPLICATIONS MADE ON THE BASIS OF RESIDENCE IN THE UNITED KINGDOM

Evidence of lawful residence during the 5 (or, if the applicant is married to or in civil partnership to a British citizen, 3) years before the date of the application

• Your passports OR say why you are unable to provide one on page 24 and supply
• Letters from employers, educational establishments or other Government Departments indicating the applicant’s presence in the United Kingdom during the relevant period.

with the emphasis on "OR", not "AND". I perhaps wrongly assumed if I provided both passports I would not need any further supporting document. However,once again in hindsight, I technically can not provide a passport for the absent year (because my wife never had one). Having said that the information should be clearer from the Home Office and it should clearly state that you need to provide a passport covering the length of period required for naturalisation (last 3 years for marriage or the last 5 years on the basis of residency).

Having said all the above in the last two post. Regardless, there is absolutely no way that my wife could have spent the permitted 450 days (for naturalisation based on residence) outside the country in the period she had no passport.

Anyways, thanks for your help Ohara.

[CR001]

Employment is NOT a requirement for citizenship. She qualifies under both routes and the result will be the same if granted, it makes no difference really on 5 or 3 year route.

Thanks for the clarification CR001, it was just an assumption on my behalf that if someone is applying for naturalisation based on their own residence then they should be self sustainable. however given that they don't ask for the partner's employment details & history, when applying for naturalisation based on marriage to a British citizen, I guess in hindsight it makes absolute sense that her self-sustainability or financial status (as long as she hasn't been declared bankrupt) is irrelevant applying for applying for naturalisation based on their own residence.

Ps.CR001 you deserve a medal given your contribution to the forum and the help you have given to many lost souls like myself.

Thank you for the compliment, very much appreciated given that we do a thankless job mostly.

Rest assured that the fact she does not work is irrelevant to her naturalisation application and many stay at home moms and housewives or househusbands have been successful with their applications.

[ohara]

Hi Ohara, I am assuming you didn't have a valid passport or was a citizen of the EU (probably Irish)

...


Having said all the above in the last two post. Regardless, there is absolutely no way that my wife could have spent the permitted 450 days (for naturalisation based on residence) outside the country in the period she had no passport.

Anyways, thanks for your help Ohara.

Irish I am not, but an EU passport I do hold in fact my current passport goes all the way back to August 2006 although has zero stamps as I've only travelled inside the EU since then.

As for there being no way your wife could have spent so long outside the UK...surely it's possible that she could have exited the UK before her old passport ran out, then re-entered a year (or more) later on a new passport? It is probably this which the Home Office wants to make sure hasn't happened

[Wacky]

Irish I am not, but an EU passport I do hold in fact my current passport goes all the way back to August 2006 although has zero stamps as I've only travelled inside the EU since then.

As for there being no way your wife could have spent so long outside the UK...surely it's possible that she could have exited the UK before her old passport ran out, then re-entered a year (or more) later on a new passport? It is probably this which the Home Office wants to make sure hasn't happened

Hi Ohara, as a citizen of EU, you can travel freely without a visa & passport within the schengen region. The only time you a required to show a passport would be when boarding a flight, due to security concerns by the airliners. Even though UK is not a part of the schengen region and therefore you do need a passport when travelling to anywhere in the EU, I believe the passport is not necessarily stamped. Hence as a citizen of the EU, it is incredibly difficult to track you movements and therefore it is only logical that the Home Office would ask for further evidence to prove you were a residence here during the last 3-5 years depending on you application.

As for there being no way your wife could have spent so long outside the UK...surely it's possible that she could have exited the UK before her old passport ran out, then re-entered a year (or more) later on a new passport? It is probably this which the Home Office wants to make sure hasn't happened

My wife cannot travel to most countries without a visa or passport. If she had left on her old passport and come back on her new. then both would have been stamped on the date of her departure and arrival back to the UK (as they were when she entered the country 7 years ago). Hence her movements are easy to track via her passport. Now I am not necessarily saying I am right but the guide should be clearer.

Ps. Why the irish surname?

[ohara]

When operating properly, there is usually no need to show a passport at all when travelling inside the Schengen area. I've flown from Finland to Sweden in the past without showing a passport, although that may have been due to the Nordic Passport Union and the fact that I do look Nordic.

You are right that EU passports are not stamped inside the EU. Even a non-EU passport should not be stamped when travelling between EU countries, only when entering and exiting the Schengen area.

Ps. my surname is not Ohara, it's just something I nabbed ages ago from another forum

[ohara]

Just a thought - isn't it true that a family member of an EEA citizen, who also holds an article 10 residence card, will not have their passport stamped when entering the EU with or to join their EEA family member?