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Strange situation - child rendered stateless

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winder30
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Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:20 pm

Strange situation - child rendered stateless

Post by winder30 » Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:28 pm

I'm from Azerbaijan and now have British Citizenship via the spouse route (before June 2012)
I would like to bring my child, who is under 10, to the UK from Azerbaijan.

However, as I have British Citizenship, I have automatically lost my Azerbaijanian Citizenship.

As the father of my child is not Azerbaijanian, this means that my child is stateless in the eyes of Azerbaijan so cannot have travel documents or a passport.
Azerbaijanian officials said that I should talk to my (British) embassy as it is not their problem.

I spoke to the Home Office and their answer is that they cannot give legal advice...

What could be done in this situation?
Would there be some way to claim British citizenship for my child as he is stateless?

Wanderer
Diamond Member
Posts: 10511
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 1:46 pm
Ireland

Re: Strange situation - child rendered stateless

Post by Wanderer » Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:36 pm

winder30 wrote:I'm from Azerbaijan and now have British Citizenship via the spouse route (before June 2012)
I would like to bring my child, who is under 10, to the UK from Azerbaijan.

However, as I have British Citizenship, I have automatically lost my Azerbaijanian Citizenship.

As the father of my child is not Azerbaijanian, this means that my child is stateless in the eyes of Azerbaijan so cannot have travel documents or a passport.
Azerbaijanian officials said that I should talk to my (British) embassy as it is not their problem.

I spoke to the Home Office and their answer is that they cannot give legal advice...

What could be done in this situation?
Would there be some way to claim British citizenship for my child as he is stateless?
The child's alleged statelessness is no concern to the British Gov., why can't the child immigrate to UK via the normal route, i.e. to join family in the UK?
An chéad stad eile Stáisiún Uí Chonghaile....

noajthan
Moderator
Posts: 14911
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:31 pm
Location: UK

Re: Strange situation - child rendered stateless

Post by noajthan » Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:45 pm

winder30 wrote:...
Would there be some way to claim British citizenship for my child as he is stateless?
A foreign-born child cannot 'inherit' your recent British citizenship; he is not British.

What is nationality of father?
And why does child stop having a certain nationality just because you did?
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

winder30
Newly Registered
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:20 pm

Re: Strange situation - child rendered stateless

Post by winder30 » Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:48 pm

Wanderer wrote:
winder30 wrote:I'm from Azerbaijan and now have British Citizenship via the spouse route (before June 2012)
I would like to bring my child, who is under 10, to the UK from Azerbaijan.

However, as I have British Citizenship, I have automatically lost my Azerbaijanian Citizenship.

As the father of my child is not Azerbaijanian, this means that my child is stateless in the eyes of Azerbaijan so cannot have travel documents or a passport.
Azerbaijanian officials said that I should talk to my (British) embassy as it is not their problem.

I spoke to the Home Office and their answer is that they cannot give legal advice...

What could be done in this situation?
Would there be some way to claim British citizenship for my child as he is stateless?
The child's alleged statelessness is no concern to the British Gov., why can't the child immigrate to UK via the normal route, i.e. to join family in the UK?
This would be due to lack of passport or travel documents. It is not even possible to get a TB test without these.

winder30
Newly Registered
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:20 pm

Re: Strange situation - child rendered stateless

Post by winder30 » Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:52 pm

noajthan wrote:
winder30 wrote:...
Would there be some way to claim British citizenship for my child as he is stateless?
A foreign-born child cannot 'inherit' your recent British citizenship; he is not British.

What is nationality of father?
And why does child stop having a certain nationality just because you did?
The father's nationality is unknown.

Possibly German, Polish, Russian or some combination of these. He had a number of passports and it would appear to be impossible to know what truth there is in his Citizenship status.

In Azerbaijan, Citizenship is hereditary and not based on birth location. If neither parent has Azerbaijani Citizenship, the child does not either.

Wanderer
Diamond Member
Posts: 10511
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 1:46 pm
Ireland

Re: Strange situation - child rendered stateless

Post by Wanderer » Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:53 pm

winder30 wrote:
Wanderer wrote:
winder30 wrote:I'm from Azerbaijan and now have British Citizenship via the spouse route (before June 2012)
I would like to bring my child, who is under 10, to the UK from Azerbaijan.

However, as I have British Citizenship, I have automatically lost my Azerbaijanian Citizenship.

As the father of my child is not Azerbaijanian, this means that my child is stateless in the eyes of Azerbaijan so cannot have travel documents or a passport.
Azerbaijanian officials said that I should talk to my (British) embassy as it is not their problem.

I spoke to the Home Office and their answer is that they cannot give legal advice...

What could be done in this situation?
Would there be some way to claim British citizenship for my child as he is stateless?
The child's alleged statelessness is no concern to the British Gov., why can't the child immigrate to UK via the normal route, i.e. to join family in the UK?
This would be due to lack of passport or travel documents. It is not even possible to get a TB test without these.
I can't see why the child is not Azeri because the parents aren't. From Wiki

The Azerbaijani nationality law provides provisions in which a person can automatically become an Azerbaijani citizen at birth:

1. When at least one of the parents is a citizen of Azerbaijan.
2. When the person born abroad is of an Azerbaijani father and foreign mother, and if the mother does not object.
3. When the person is born within the territory of Azerbaijan and both parents are unknown.

Seems to me 1. applies....
An chéad stad eile Stáisiún Uí Chonghaile....

Wanderer
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Posts: 10511
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 1:46 pm
Ireland

Re: Strange situation - child rendered stateless

Post by Wanderer » Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:56 pm

winder30 wrote:
noajthan wrote:
winder30 wrote:...
Would there be some way to claim British citizenship for my child as he is stateless?
A foreign-born child cannot 'inherit' your recent British citizenship; he is not British.

What is nationality of father?
And why does child stop having a certain nationality just because you did?
The father's nationality is unknown.

Possibly German, Polish, Russian or some combination of these. He had a number of passports and it would appear to be impossible to know what truth there is in his Citizenship status.

In Azerbaijan, Citizenship is hereditary and not based on birth location. If neither parent has Azerbaijani Citizenship, the child does not either.
But when the child was born you had Azeri citizenship, seems unfair the child should lose it when you did. Anyway, that's a battle between you and the Azeri Government, not UKVI, there's no 'fast track' to BC, doubt any of us have the knowledge to advice other than what we can Google.
An chéad stad eile Stáisiún Uí Chonghaile....

geriatrix
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Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 3:30 pm
Location: does it matter?
United Kingdom

Re: Strange situation - child rendered stateless

Post by geriatrix » Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:52 pm

Found this on the web - The Law of the Azerbaijan Republic on Citizenship of the Azerbaijan Republic, which doesn't seem to suggest that the child has been rendered stateless.

But, as Wanderer has rightly pointed out, this neither a UKVI problem nor anything that UKVI can help with.
Not a "UK immigration" matter!!
Life isn't fair, but you can be!

secret.simon
Moderator
Posts: 11260
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:29 pm

Re: Strange situation - child rendered stateless

Post by secret.simon » Sat Apr 30, 2016 12:52 pm

Wanderer wrote:But when the child was born you had Azeri citizenship, seems unfair the child should lose it when you did.
May be unfair to you, but it is quite common in citizenship laws in Asia for the citizenship status of the child to be dependent on the citizenship of the parents. For instance, Section 8(2) of the Indian Citizenship Act 1955 also states that minor children of a person who renounces Indian citizenship also lose Indian citizenship, though it can be resumed when that child attains adulthood. I believe that Japanese and Malaysian citizenship also has similar provisions.

While the link provided by geriatrix does not state explicitly that a child whose parent renounces Azeri citizenship also loses Azeri citizenship, I think that scenario is implied by Article 22 of that document.

However, Article 26 of the document also states;
International Treaties of the Azerbaijan Republic shall apply in the cases of conflict between this Law and International Treaties of the Azerbaijan Republic.
Azerbaijan is a signatory to the Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness and I would imagine that, as a signatory, Azerbaijan cannot make a child stateless. So, if you can prove to the Azeri authorities that the child has not or can not acquire the other parent's citizenship, then the child's Azeri citizenship will persist.

But, as geriatrix has advised, it is not a UKV&I or Home Office issue. It is a matter for the Azeri authorities.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

member
Member of Standing
Posts: 297
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:23 am

Re: Strange situation - child rendered stateless

Post by member » Sat Apr 30, 2016 1:26 pm

winder30 wrote:I'm from Azerbaijan and now have British Citizenship via the spouse route (before June 2012)
I would like to bring my child, who is under 10, to the UK from Azerbaijan.

However, as I have British Citizenship, I have automatically lost my Azerbaijanian Citizenship.

As the father of my child is not Azerbaijanian, this means that my child is stateless in the eyes of Azerbaijan so cannot have travel documents or a passport.
Azerbaijanian officials said that I should talk to my (British) embassy as it is not their problem.

I spoke to the Home Office and their answer is that they cannot give legal advice...

What could be done in this situation?
Would there be some way to claim British citizenship for my child as he is stateless?
What is the citizenship status of the
child's mother?

secret.simon
Moderator
Posts: 11260
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:29 pm

Re: Strange situation - child rendered stateless

Post by secret.simon » Sat Apr 30, 2016 1:28 pm

winder30 wrote:I'm from Azerbaijan and now have British Citizenship via the spouse route (before June 2012)
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

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