P11 refused as replacement of RT FPS

[ericn]

My extension has been refused as I submitted P11 instead of RT FPS.

The reply quoted paragraph 46-SD(h)(i) of Appendix A of Immigration Rules. And said form 2013 the appropriate evidence is RT FPS and I have not submitted this.

I check the appendix A 46-SD, it only said P11 is acceptable evidence. The 2013 rule change is mentioned nowhere. Have anyone find this rule anywhere?

[aby00156]

If you look at the guidance and the form it does not mention anything about P11

All it asks for is :

• Documentation to prove the employee was a settled worker;
• For directors - a printout from Companies House of the company’s filing history page and of a Current Appointment Report to show that the applicant is/was a director of each business for the period;
• Employee Payment Records, Real Time-Full Payment Submissions (either a series of individual monthly submissions or summaries), or original HM Revenue & Customs P45 or P46;
• Pay or wage slips to cover total period of employment created for each worker.

[ericn]

I have been told by my accountant that P11 is also called Employee Payment Records. Isn't it?

[zimba]

The exact clause for this requirement is written under 46-SD(h)(i):

evidence to show the applicant is reporting Pay As You Earn (PAYE ) income tax appropriately to HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC), such as printouts of Employee Payment Records, Real Time-Full Payment Submissions (either a series of individual monthly submissions including the first submission or summaries), or original HM Revenue & Customs P45 or P46, which either together or individually show the total payments made to the settled workers, as well as the tax deducted and date which they started work with the applicant’s business;

Given the recent refusals, I highly suspect that the the Employee Payment Records mentioned above does not mean P11 but possibly refers to the old P35 reports (before RTI reporting came into force in 2013)
Now that everyone has to report via RTI, P35 is not used at all. However it appears in the rules for people who might have to score points for any employment created in early 2013 or earlier and outside RTI.

My claim can be supported if you pay more attention to a similar clause which applies only to applicants who have joined/taken over an existing business. In their case, the rules clearly differentiate between the two and demand you to send either a P35s for pre-RTI and FPS reports for post RTI.
This is written under 46-SD(h)(vii):

if the applicant took over or joined a business that employed workers before he joined it, he must provide the following documentation for the year immediately before the jobs were created and the year that the jobs were created, showing the net increase in employment and signed and dated by the applicant:
(1) duplicate HM Revenue & Customers Full Payment Submission sent to HMRC under Real Time; or
(2) if the business started employing staff for which points are being claimed before they were reporting under Real Time, a form P35,

[FKS21177]

sorry to hear that.....i am having the same issue my accountant say his software does not produce FPS and gave me P11 which seems to be not acceptable, anyone who know can please suggest what alternative solution i have i am also few months away from extension.

[noajthan]

sorry to hear that.....i am having the same issue my accountant say his software does not produce FPS and gave me P11 which seems to be not acceptable, anyone who know can please suggest what alternative solution i have i am also few months away from extension.

1) Change accountant

or
2)

evidence to show the applicant is reporting Pay As You Earn (PAYE ) income tax appropriately to HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC), such as printouts of Employee Payment Records, Real Time-Full Payment Submissions (either a series of individual monthly submissions including the first submission or summaries), or original HM Revenue & Customs P45 or P46, which either together or individually show the total payments made to the settled workers, as well as the tax deducted and date which they started work with the applicant’s business

[zimba]

sorry to hear that.....i am having the same issue my accountant say his software does not produce FPS and gave me P11 which seems to be not acceptable, anyone who know can please suggest what alternative solution i have i am also few months away from extension.

Most Payroll softwares are free for small businesses and you are not forced to use one specific one as long as they can do RTI submissions. Use MoneySoft software which produces good quality FPS reports.

[FKS21177]

sorry to hear that.....i am having the same issue my accountant say his software does not produce FPS and gave me P11 which seems to be not acceptable, anyone who know can please suggest what alternative solution i have i am also few months away from extension.

Most Payroll softwares are free for small businesses and you are not forced to use one specific one as long as they can do RTI submissions. Use MoneySoft software which produces good quality FPS reports.

Thanks Zimba for your reply.. i ve already changed the accountant so currently i am getting FPS reports not the same format as u submitted but it says FPS but the trouble is i dont have FPS for previous period and that accountant can provide me FPS he gave me P11 which does not seems to be good enough.. Any other way i can get these FPS for that period i mean HMRC Will they provide u reckon ??

[FKS21177]

sorry to hear that.....i am having the same issue my accountant say his software does not produce FPS and gave me P11 which seems to be not acceptable, anyone who know can please suggest what alternative solution i have i am also few months away from extension.

1) Change accountant

or
2)

evidence to show the applicant is reporting Pay As You Earn (PAYE ) income tax appropriately to HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC), such as printouts of Employee Payment Records, Real Time-Full Payment Submissions (either a series of individual monthly submissions including the first submission or summaries), or original HM Revenue & Customs P45 or P46, which either together or individually show the total payments made to the settled workers, as well as the tax deducted and date which they started work with the applicant’s business

i ve already changed it but the problem is that period when he was running our payroll.

[aby00156]

i ve already changed it but the problem is that period when he was running our payroll.

The guidance states :

HMRC are unable to action requests for printouts or copies of Full Payment Submissions (FPS) for individual customers. HMRC will only provide FPS information to employers whose records have been stolen or destroyed so that their payroll can be restored. More information on Real Time and PAYE reporting can be found on the HM Revenue and Customs page of gov.uk.

Thus try calling HMRC and see what happens.

[FKS21177]

sorry to hear that.....i am having the same issue my accountant say his software does not produce FPS and gave me P11 which seems to be not acceptable, anyone who know can please suggest what alternative solution i have i am also few months away from extension.

1) Change accountant

or
2)

evidence to show the applicant is reporting Pay As You Earn (PAYE ) income tax appropriately to HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC), such as printouts of Employee Payment Records, Real Time-Full Payment Submissions (either a series of individual monthly submissions including the first submission or summaries), or original HM Revenue & Customs P45 or P46, which either together or individually show the total payments made to the settled workers, as well as the tax deducted and date which they started work with the applicant’s business

hi Noajthan... yhis P45 means from our side or his previos employer? coz he is still working with me.i got his P45 given to him by his previous employer.

[noajthan]

...

hi Noajthan... yhis P45 means from our side or his previos employer? coz he is still working with me.i got his P45 given to him by his previous employer.

You are not trying to prove the ex-employee of somebody else has paid his tax.

In my understanding, this is all about your business and your process practice - so the P45s, P46s & etc would be those as issued by you/your company.

[FKS21177]

...

hi Noajthan... yhis P45 means from our side or his previos employer? coz he is still working with me.i got his P45 given to him by his previous employer.

You are not trying to prove the ex-employee of somebody else has paid his tax.

In my understanding, this is all about your business and your process practice - so the P45s, P46s & etc would be those as issued by you/your company.

Thanks Noajthan for reply.... my employee is still working with me so i cant provide P45 and i think we can use P46 only to prove the starting date of employee as P46 is for those without P46 i dont think P46 will fill the Gap of FPS.

[zimba]

i think we can use P46 only to prove the starting date of employee as P46 is for those without P46 i dont think P46 will fill the Gap of FPS.

P46 is not used any more.

[FKS21177]

i think we can use P46 only to prove the starting date of employee as P46 is for those without P46 i dont think P46 will fill the Gap of FPS.

P46 is not used any more.

this seems to be so tricky for me now as P11 is not accepted and my employee is still working so no P45 and i ve no FPS, what could be the possible way out please if you know ?

[thutmose]

Even if you manage to get a p45 by firing and hiring again. I think home office will still wanna see fps. It's a box ticking thing for them.

I think the best will be to call HMRC and tell them all data were lost and now you need them. They will probably be able to provide you a data set

[regularuser]

I have submitted my file last month and same as others My payroll software is not producing RTI/FPS. My Solicitor advice me to submit P11 + P46 (Starter checklist)for Start date and P45 for who left from the firm. I made request to HMRC and they just send the current RTI details of plain piece of paper.

I am not bit worries as now they are refusing on this basis as well

[sm12]

FPS are usually plain reports, RegularUser. At least the ones I've seen are just plain text based.

[regularuser]

yes you are right. HMRC only provide you to restore your payroll. I don't think so HO will consider this document as they require.

[Mrchaany]

This is the original paragraph 46-SD(h)(i) of Appendix A of Immigration Rules

(h) if the applicant is required to score points for job creation in Table 5 or Table 6, he must provide the following:
(i) evidence to show the applicant is reporting Pay As You Earn (PAYE ) income tax appropriately to HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC), such as printouts of Employee Payment Records, Real Time-Full Payment Submissions (either a series of individual monthly submissions including the first submission or summaries), or original HM Revenue & Customs P45 or P46, which either together or individually show the total payments made to the settled workers, as well as the tax deducted and date which they started work with the applicant’s business; and
(ii) duplicate payslips or wage slips for each settled worker for whom points are being claimed, covering the full period of the employment for which points are being claimed; and
(iii) confirmation of the hourly rate for each settled worker used to claim points, including any changes in the hourly rate and the dates of the changes, enabling calculation of the hours of work created for each settled worker; and
(iv) documents which show the employee is a settled worker such as the biometric data page of a passport containing photograph and personal details of the employee, and where the worker is an overseas national, a copy of any UK Government stamp or endorsement within the passport, or the employees full birth certificate, showing the name of at least one parent; and
(v) if the applicant was a director of a company, a printout from Companies House of the company’s filing history page and of the applicant’s personal appointments history, and showing the date of his appointment as a director of that company, to confirm that he was a director of the company that employed the settled worker at the time that the settled worker was employed; or
(vi) if the applicant was self-employed, the specified documents in (c) above showing the dates that the applicant became self-employed, the names on the Employee Payment Record and bank account, and the address of the business;
(vii) if the applicant took over or joined a business that employed workers before he joined it, he must provide the following documentation for the year immediately before the jobs were created and the year that the jobs were created, showing the net increase in employment and signed and dated by the applicant:
(1) duplicate HM Revenue & Customers Full Payment Submission sent to HMRC under Real Time; or
(2) if the business started employing staff for which points are being claimed before they were reporting under Real Time, a form P35,

[jafersadeq]

...

hi Noajthan... yhis P45 means from our side or his previos employer? coz he is still working with me.i got his P45 given to him by his previous employer.

You are not trying to prove the ex-employee of somebody else has paid his tax.

In my understanding, this is all about your business and your process practice - so the P45s, P46s & etc would be those as issued by you/your company.

Dear members,

P45 or P46 issued by your company states leaving date only, the is no starting date.

Thanks,

[FKS21177]

...

hi Noajthan... yhis P45 means from our side or his previos employer? coz he is still working with me.i got his P45 given to him by his previous employer.

You are not trying to prove the ex-employee of somebody else has paid his tax.

In my understanding, this is all about your business and your process practice - so the P45s, P46s & etc would be those as issued by you/your company.

Dear members,

P45 or P46 issued by your company states leaving date only, the is no starting date.

Thanks,

thanks jafersadeq for your reply, I meant with P46 (employee without P45) you can only prove the starting date of your employee but cant be used as an alternative to FPS.tnx

[jafersadeq]

Dear FKS21177,

Nothing you can submit instead of FPS, but if the FPS does not include the staring-leaving dates, you have to support it with another document.
Thanks

[zimba]

P45 will work only if your employee has left, P46 is not used any more.
Given that HO is now extremely pedantic with the formatting of the report and wants to see FPS, you have the option of asking your accountant to prepare FPS reports manually and send them instead. I highly suggest you have FPS reports sent with your application as HO seems to be refusing applicants for that simple piece of paper

[regularuser]

Zimba,

I have submit P11 and P46(Starter checklist) for start date and p45 who left from the firm. Do you think so is that suffice ? or Can we send additional documents before HO made decision ?

Thanks