SS route via ROI with dependent mother

[shpirtshqipe]

Hi all,

This is my first post and like so many of you I'm on the same boat
As I have taken so much from this forum it is time I give something in return

My story so far has been a success and hope the following will help others:

UPDATE ONE:

1. BACKGROUND
I am a naturalized British citizen and have been residing in the ROI since January of this year. YOU MUST show full integration in Ireland. This means that YOU MUST cut all ties with the other EEA country - in my case the UK. By doing this you reaffirm your residence status in the ROI
I have one parent who is a window, over the age of 63, retired, lives alone and I am the only living child

2.
Secured a full time job
Rented a house and signed a one year contract - VERY IMPORTANT TO HAVE - make sure you ask the estate agents they register you with a Secure Deposit Scheme - In doing so you will receive a letter which can be used with your application for RESIDENCE CARD
Registered for the PPSN number (this can take up to one month to get when registering for the 1st time)
Opened bank account
Setup direct debits for utility bills
All of the above are crucial evidence to prove your residence in the ROI when applying for C Visa or Residence Card
INSIST IN ALL OCCASIONS THAT YOU OBTAIN OFFICIAL LETTERS FROM ANYWHERE OR ANY DEPARTMENT YOU APPLY - THIS WILL SEAL YOUR PROOF OF RESIDENCE IN THE ROI

3.
Moved my whole family in the ROI - THIS IS IMPORTANT FOR THE RESIDENCE OF YOUR DEPENDENT RELATIVE
Registered my child to a local school

4.
3 months into the country and I was able to apply for a Short Stay C Visa for my relative with SUCCESS
MY ADVISE - don't be greedy and apply for multiple entry visa for the 1st time as it may get refused. The C Visa will ensure your relative has higher chances of getting the Single entry visa. From then on you can apply for either a multiple entry visa extension or Residence card
MOVE TO ROI FIRST THEN APPLY FOR YOUR RELATIVE TO JOIN YOU ON C VISA

5.
PREEMPTIVE WORK IS THE KEY!
Before you consider taking this route for RESIDENCE CARD you MUST make sure that you prove your financial support to your relative.
So I'd suggest that you start sending money each month for the last 6 months (open an account online with the likes of MoneyGram or WesternUnion so that you can download an online transaction statement to provide as proof of financial support when applying for RESIDENCE CARD)
Also any assets on your relative(s) name(s) should be kept at a minimum because such evidence could reduce the chances of a Successful Residence card application . Remember you need to prove to the Immigration Officer that the relative is dependent on you so having large assets will weaken your case

5.
Make sure that you have a relatively good private health insurance policy for yourself and family before applying for the RESIDENCE CARD. Once your relative is in the ROI you can add them to your policy before applying for the RESIDENCE CARD

So my next step will be to apply for the Residence Card. This is a personal choice but some of you may want to consider applying for multiple entry visitor visa then the Residence Card

I will keep you posted on my progress

Any Suggestions you may have I will grateful to receive

Thanks and good luck to you all

[noajthan]

Welcome to the ImmigrationBoards community.

To avoid confusion & jumbled responses, I have moved your post to its own thread (this one).

[Hamza2013]

Hi shpirtshqipe,

I am expecting a decision for my parents for residence card soon and will keep u posted.

Did you travel with your mother from UK to ROU?

Theoretically nothing wrong but I have seen people accused of using British visa to enter Ireland and or going back to UK via SS.

Regards

[shpirtshqipe]

Hi shpirtshqipe,

I am expecting a decision for my parents for residence card soon and will keep u posted.

Did you travel with your mother from UK to ROU?

Theoretically nothing wrong but I have seen people accused of using British visa to enter Ireland and or going back to UK via SS.

Regards

Hi Hamza2013

I will be very interested to learn how you have got on with the Residence Card please and I will be doing the same when I lodge mine

For my mother I applied in my country of birth, although she has had previous UK visitor visas. In my experience with the Home Office I have learned the hard way not to mix the two together

As for the returning back to the UK this has been an issue for people that I know mostly because they have not used the SS route appropriately i.e. they got the 5 year Residence card and within a month of issue have returned in the UK, or more foolishly not cut ties completely with the UK prior to leaving for Ireland.
On the flip side I have known people who have been successful in using the SS route by staying in the EEA country for at least 6 months after their relative's 5 year visa was issued and had ties completely cut with the UK. That is not to say that the Home Office did not give them a hard time but nothing a good laywer and solid evidence can't solve

Cheers

[shpirtshqipe]

Welcome to the ImmigrationBoards community.

To avoid confusion & jumbled responses, I have moved your post to its own thread (this one).

Thank You Admin

[Hamza2013]

Hi shpirtshqipe,

Not sure what you mean by cutting ties, but you will need to move your center of life to Eire. I am sure visiting UK meeting friends and family should not be showing strong ties with UK.

I reckon you will need to prove center of life move to Ireland and not factors to show you have cut ties with UK.

Moving back straightaway after receiving 5 years residence card is not wrong as i see, a 5 years residence permit shows the dependency of your parents/spouse and also a legal right for them to stay in Eire.

Please share your experiences regarding above, Thanks

[shpirtshqipe]

Hi shpirtshqipe,

Not sure what you mean by cutting ties, but you will need to move your center of life to Eire. I am sure visiting UK meeting friends and family should not be showing strong ties with UK.

I reckon you will need to prove center of life move to Ireland and not factors to show you have cut ties with UK.

Moving back straightaway after receiving 5 years residence card is not wrong as i see, a 5 years residence permit shows the dependency of your parents/spouse and also a legal right for them to stay in Eire.

Please share your experiences regarding above, Thanks

Hi Hamza2013,

You are correct that in the eyes of the law you should technically have no problems moving back your center of life to the UK soon after your dependent relative gets the 5 year residence card, however I have seen the form you need to complete using the SS route and it is lengthy with questions that shouldn't really be there but hey, they do exist

Their argument is that in order for one person to move the Center of life to another EEA country must in effect demonstrate they have left the UK. Sorry for my vague statement previously but by cutting ties completely with the UK I was referring to registered institutions in the UK i.e. work, benefits, large assets, not owning a house on your name, moving the rest of your immediate family i.e. wife & children, Not availing routine NHS services (emergency care is a different matter) in the UK. All these are evidence that the Home Office can use against you to weaken your case
Rightly as you have said this does not stop you from visiting friends and family in the UK or holding a bank account.

I know I am being extreme in my suggestions about cutting ties (moving the center of life) but all I am saying is that the Home Office will give you a hard time on your return, that's not to say it will not be granted eventually. By prolonging your stay in ROI from the date the 5 year visa is issued (say 3-6 months) the Home Office will have a harder time to decline your application upon your return

By the way Hamza2013, can you tell me did you apply for the Residence Card after the C Visa or did you get a multi-entry visa first?
At the moment I am weighing my options and not sure if I should be applying straight for the Residence Card or Multi-entry visa?

Your suggestion is appreciated

Regards

[Hamza2013]

Hi shpirtshqipe,

Thanks for further information, just to add, having house in your name in UK cannot be a sign of strong ties with Uk as long as it is rented for lkbg term, as correctly said having registered with NHS over there claiming child benefit can go against you.

With regards to residence card we applied as soon as my parents arrived from their home country in Ireland. They only had 90 days single entry visa. We didn't applied for multiple visa as we were not planning to travel in near future. We are waiting for final decision on their residence card, hope this helps. Thanks

[HRH]

Congratulations shpirtshqipe.

Very insightful & inspiring read indeed.

Its almost 5 months & I am still waiting for D visa for my mum. God knows when will it happen...

Please feel free to share your views.

[shpirtshqipe]

Hi shpirtshqipe,

Thanks for further information, just to add, having house in your name in UK cannot be a sign of strong ties with Uk as long as it is rented for lkbg term,

Hi Hamza2013
Never thought of it but it sounds like a very plausible workaround idea to consider long term let of owned property whilst living in another EEA...

I will keep my fingers crossed for your parents and God's will it will be granted soon for you. Like yourself I will be applying a week before her single entry visa expires

Thanks

[shpirtshqipe]

Congratulations shpirtshqipe.

Very insightful & inspiring read indeed.

Its almost 5 months & I am still waiting for D visa for my mum. God knows when will it happen...

Please feel free to share your views.

Hi HRH,

Sorry to hear your mother's visa is taking this long..

Whilst we cannot do much about your existing application, if like us you are planning on applying for a residence card, we hope our shared experiences will help you. Any questions or suggestions you may have are very welcomed.

Thanks

[denver2k]

Hi shpirtshqipe,

In your initial email you advised that first apply Short Stay C Visa from non-EEA country of origin.

However, i noticed that all the questions asked in the C Visa Application form are opposite to what one would attempt to prove in the Residence Card application.

For e.g. it asks questions such as
Q1 - that you will leave Ireland at the end of your visit;
Q2- that you have sufficient resources to look after yourself while you are here;

If we say YES for Q1then application for Residence Card afterwards will be contradiction, isinit?

Thanks

[noajthan]

Hi shpirtshqipe,

Thanks for further information, just to add, having house in your name in UK cannot be a sign of strong ties with Uk as long as it is rented for lkbg term ...

This approach would seem compatible with the spirit of EU law and ideals of free movement.

Whether HO would see it in the same way, in the context of the UK's centre of life test is the $64,000 question.

[shpirtshqipe]

Hi shpirtshqipe,

In your initial email you advised that first apply Short Stay C Visa from non-EEA country of origin.

However, i noticed that all the questions asked in the C Visa Application form are opposite to what one would attempt to prove in the Residence Card application.

For e.g. it asks questions such as
Q1 - that you will leave Ireland at the end of your visit;
Q2- that you have sufficient resources to look after yourself while you are here;

If we say YES for Q1then application for Residence Card afterwards will be contradiction, isinit?

Thanks

Hi denver2k,

Yes questions from application to application differ and most of the times like you pointed out contradict one another

Because these are two different applications altogether they are considered in their own merit first however previous evidence is also taken into account

So to take your example:

Q1 - Your relative will be respecting the conditions of Visa C because you will be applying for the Residence Card BEFORE the C Visa expires thus meeting the C Visa conditions...It is clearly stipulated that whilst a new application is lodged then the applicant will benefit from the same visa conditions providing they remain in Ireland.
By applying in Ireland whilst your relative is here, the amount of papers requires reduces DRAMATICALLY...

Q2 - Presumably your relative will have sufficient funds in their bank account when application for Visa C is lodged i.e. 1000, 2000 Euro etc. You, the sponsor will also have submitted bank account statements and other supporting evidence that you will be sponsoring their stay in Ireland FULLY.
Point to note: Your relative(s), by having sufficient funds in the bank i.e. 1000 euro does not automatically mean they are NOT dependent on you...Therefore when you apply for the residence card you can argue the case of DEPENDENCE by providing solid evidence of continuous financial support over a number of months or even better years i.e. statements of MoneyGram, Western Union, Bank transfers on your relative(s) name(s)
All you and your relative are showing when applying for C Visa is that they are relatively financially sound for THAT PARTICULAR VISIT.

Hope this provides some clarification

ShpirtShqipe

[shpirtshqipe]

Hi shpirtshqipe,

Thanks for further information, just to add, having house in your name in UK cannot be a sign of strong ties with Uk as long as it is rented for lkbg term ...

This approach would seem compatible with the spirit of EU law and ideals of free movement.

Whether HO would see it in the same way, in the context of the UK's centre of life test is the $64,000 question.

hi noajthan,


I have a friend who was able to get both of his parents in the UK last year using the Right to Free Movement route with the only difference of him living there for 10 years. He was able to apply through his wife who is an EEA national but not British

It is the exact same principle at present, that providing you have moved as fully as you can your Center of Life in the UK, they will eventually come around and approve the application. The difference between succeeding or failing is heavily dependent on the person's ability to provide ample and solid evidence of their relative's dependence
I do agree with you it is tough and would strongly suggest for people considering the UK as an option, a good Immigration Lawyer is a must

Because of the current political climate and the referendum looming over I would suggest extreme caution for anyone who's thinking of moving over there now...Very uncertain times indeed

ShpirtShqipe