Naturalisation and proof of residence as an EEA citizen

[etalgor]

Hi,
I have a few questions myself as well...
I am considering applying for naturalisation as EEA citizen, using the Nationality Checking Service (NCS).
I am quite confused regarding what documents i need to send with my application (if any) to prove residence during the last 5( or 6?) years.
I have in fact applied for for the Permanent Residence confirmation more than 3 years ago (i got the blue papercard with the PR confirmation in March 2013) but for various reasons I did not apply for naturalisation one year later. At that time PR certifying document was not a requirement for naturalisation applications, but I was thinking that it might help me when I would eventually apply

Now, that I waited for more than 1 year, I was hoping that it would be enough just to send my PR papercard and nothing else as proof of lawful residence - but i find the AN form/AN guide/ AN booklet quite confusing. Do I need to send again all the proofs i had sent with the PR application 3 years ago (those covering 2008-2013)? Or only those covering the last 5 years? Or perhaps only the last 3 years since I got the PR document?
What annoys me is that about 5 years ago i had an period of about 14 months when i was not working - when I applied for PR i covered this periods with various documents showing that i was exercising my treaty rights by looking for jobs (like interview appointment emails, just printed out, nothing very official). At the time, I wasn't very sure if this would go well with my application, but all was fine (risk was low anyway, as PR application was free in those times). I was hoping I do not have to send all this evidence again (anyway I am not sure if this evidence, which at the time was fine to prove that i was exercising treaty rights, is now fine to prove residency during the last 5 or 6 years - as I said, some of it was just email printouts...).

I guess many others might be in the same position as me - although not necessarily having been waiting for 3 years after PR - but nevertheless, what is necessary to prove "lawful residence" during the qualifying period, what documentation was submitted with successful results?

Many thanks for any feedback or shared experiences!

[noajthan]

To avoid confusion & jumbled responses, I have moved your question to its own thread (this one).

[Noetic]

I can't speak of success yet but I took along 6 years worth of P60s plus the PR card issued 2014 (although by my calculations I attained PR around mid-2007) to my NCS appointment. I too got PR card well before starting on the citizenship path and am now very glad I did!

I had already submitted to HO for PR application evidence covering 2001-2014 (including an employer letter covering 2001-2009, a period during which I believe I attained PR - I didn't enter EEA path until mid-2002 when I got my 5 year residence card) so I am hoping P60s from 2010 onwards will be sufficient for me.

NCS were quite confused and were adamant you only need a passport in their guidelines and weren't even aware of the need to prove lawful residence (!) but were happy to copy the P60s anyway, they didn't want the earlier P60s that I had also brought with me though.

If HO want/need more evidence they will ask for it but at the very least P60s covering the full 5 years before application should be included if your passport doesn't get stamped - HO will possibly only be interested in you proving the time since PR card was issued though.

Presumably that is partly the point of having to hold a PR card already when applying for naturalisation - less paperwork for HO to check since they already covered the part where they check for exercising of treaty rights and only need to concern themselves with the lawful residence side and LITUK/language tests as far as documentation is concerned.

[noajthan]

The privilege of citizenship is quite separate from acquiring PR (which itself is just one way to acquire a form of settled status).

The legislation and requirements are different and unconnected.

For example, Union citizens (and associated family members) on an EU migration trajectory are not subject to immigration control under the Immigration Rules. Their travel documents are not endorsed.
The regulations on absences from UK are different too.

Proof of 'residency' is not the same as reconfirming exercising treaty rights.

A confirmation of PR card could have been obtained years before someone decides to shoot for citizenship.
(As is the case for OP).

It's also important to note that PR status will be lost after an absence from UK of 2 years;
caseworkers need to examine whether PR, once acquired, has not been lost again.

The BNA requires that an applicant for naturalisation proves they were physically present in UK either 5 or 3 years (to the day) from date of application; it depends whether the application is made under section 6(1) or 6(2).
That's a big ask especially when EEA nationals are not stamped into or out of UK.

So it may be becoming clearer that possession of what is merely a confirmatory PR document/card is not enough to fulfill the different and stringent requirements set down by the BNA.

The AN guidance is quite clear on what type of supporting documents are required.

Pro tip: err on the side of caution. Take to NCS or submit more than the bare minimum.
Why give HO the Spam of 'wriggle room'.

[Noetic]

A confirmation of PR card could have been obtained years before someone decides to shoot for citizenship.
(As is the case for OP).

It's also important to note that PR status will be lost after an absence from UK of 2 years;
caseworkers need to examine whether PR, once acquired, has not been lost again.

In OP's case they got the PR card in 2013 in mine in 2014.

In both cases I would think that the same proof of lawful residence in the UK over 5 years prior to application is also sufficient as proof that you have not left the UK for more than 2 years at a time since PR card was issued.

Logic dictates (this probably means it doesn't apply...) that you should only have to submit more than 5 years of evidence of residence in the UK for an EEA naturalisation application if your PR document was issued more than 7 years ago, as you then have to account for the 2+ years in between your PR card's issue date (from your date of starting to exercise treaty rights, up until your application for PO, HO case worker should have verified PR was attained and not lost since) and the 5 year span prior to application for naturalisation.

[etalgor]

Many thanks for the answers and for sharing your story.
I was indeed suspecting that the legislation covering naturalisarion is not the same as the one for EEA PR. Hence they want to see proof of lawfull residence during the last 5 years, as opposed to evidence of exercising treaty rights for 5 years for PR via EEA. The problem is, that while for non EEA route, that is trivial - just the passports, for me, as i am on the EEA route, the alternative proof is not that simple. I have - in theory- P60s for the last 3 years, though nowadays they are just online (i guess just printing them out would not be necessarily acceptable). Perhaps getting a "special" letter from my employer saying i have been employed since etc etc would help - also i might add some pension related letters. Before these 3 last years (which are also the years since i have the PR document) i can cover another year with a P45 (as i was for a short period in between jobs exactly at the end of financial year so no P60) or with some other odd letters from the previous employer. Great. But before that, to cover my 5th year in the past, i do not have much paperwork. That was not a problem when applying for PR, as i was able to show i was exercising treaty rights just with some email printouts, job adverts printouts etc. That might not be much in the sense of proving lawfull residence i guess... I was hoping not to have to cover this 5th year again!! I am very frustrated by all these rather absurd requirements - in the end, why all this demanding evidence, just to make up for the absence of some entrance stamps in the passport?? Ok, asking for some evidence since the PR status was obtained (in my case last 3 years), it makes some sense -not necessarily to check if PR was lost, because residence/number of absence day criterion will be broken much quicker than loosing PR by being away for 2 years. I just don't see what the entrance stamps in the passport can prove in the sense of "lawfull residence" as opposed to showing that one has PR status. Those entry stamps are not even enough to show the absence period... My impression was that the passport with the stamps can only show that the person was not residing illegally in UK and nothing more- if this is the case, having proof of PR does not account for exactly the same thing??

[Noetic]

Employer letters are good but obviously you can only get those if the business still exists. For PR I used a letter of reference from my manager which I'd requested when leaving that job - more common in Europe but was handy for PR as well as applying for subsequent jobs.

Where have you been living in the period not covered by the P60? Maybe you have tenancy agreements, mortgage statements, council tax bills, GP letters etc covering that time?

You can also request an employment history from HMRC if you're missing payslips or P60s.

[noajthan]

Many thanks for the answers and for sharing your story.
I was indeed suspecting that the legislation covering naturalisarion is not the same as the one for EEA PR. Hence they want to see proof of lawfull residence during the last 5 years, as opposed to evidence of exercising treaty rights for 5 years for PR via EEA. The problem is, that while for non EEA route, that is trivial - just the passports, for me, as i am on the EEA route, the alternative proof is not that simple.

...

I am very frustrated by all these rather absurd requirements - in the end, why all this demanding evidence, just to make up for the absence of some entrance stamps in the passport?? Ok, asking for some evidence since the PR status was obtained (in my case last 3 years), it makes some sense -not necessarily to check if PR was lost, because residence/number of absence day criterion will be broken much quicker than loosing PR by being away for 2 years. I just don't see what the entrance stamps in the passport can prove in the sense of "lawfull residence" as opposed to showing that one has PR status. Those entry stamps are not even enough to show the absence period... My impression was that the passport with the stamps can only show that the person was not residing illegally in UK and nothing more- if this is the case, having proof of PR does not account for exactly the same thing??

Don't fight it.
Just go with the flow - just meet the requirements.

Citizenship comes with both rights and responsibilities. It has to be earned with time-served commiting to and integrating with life in the UK.
Its not just granted willy-nilly to any Tamas, Dirk or Jaime.

And don't forget you're dealing with a nation state and its government department here, who said anything about logic or common-sense?!
(When you get to applying for a passport there is not even a relevant law; that's all done by Royal Prerogative).

Here's a related question, may be of interest:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-ro ... 10423.html

You obviously thought ahead to apply for your PR card so long ago.

Pro tip: The trick is to keep doing that - keep thinking ahead; always research in advance for the next application you will be making.

Always line everything up to get your ducks in a row ahead of time.

So you should now be cultivating potential referees for a future passport application (if you haven't started doing that already).
And you should also be checking out the passport form to see what else is required for that.

[Noetic]

And yes as long as passports aren't stamped on entry into the UK and landing abroad they don't strictly speaking prove anything, although I would hazard a guess that having all your passport / ID numbers available would allow the HO to link all landing cards and any exit checks made against all your travel documents.

[etalgor]

I have little else as evidence for that year (2011). I was indeed in UK, but as EU citizen i was not under any pressure - i was exercising treaty rights just by looking for jobs and had a few interviews, and some light evidence was enough to cover this year when I applied for PR. Anyway, now the challenge is to prove "lawful resodence" not "treaty rights" i guess. The AN guidance says:

Your passports OR say why you are unable to provide one on page 24 and supply
• Letters from employers, educational establishments or other Government Departments indicating the applicant’s presence in the United Kingdom during the relevant period

In my view this is quite logical - either your passport shows that you were residing legally, that is, not illegally, or, otherwise, if the passport cannot show this, then evidence from employers, or educational bodies or the government - the logic being that all these bodies were aware and ideed had checked (even under a legal obligation to check) your legal residence status in UK at that time. Any other letters (from landlord, bank, medical etc) do not show much ( yes they might show that you were in UK) but they wouldn't had to know if you were legally residing there. If this is the case, then having PR status, should be enough to demonstrate that one was residing legally during the 5yr qualifying period for that PR. And afterwards, one continued to reside legally obviously even more...

[ohara]

I am an EEA citizen and I don't have a single stamp in either my current or my previous (10 year) passport!

The PR card only proves your status at the time the Home Office have deemed you to have acquired PR. If this was some time ago you could certainly have lost PR for example if you have had a long absence from the UK. As the PR card has no expiry date and is not required to be returned if PR is lost, it clearly is not proof of residence.

I acquired PR in 2012, was issued the card in 2016, and at my NCS appointment I was told I needed to prove that I was still resident from 2012-2016. P60's to cover all of these years was sufficient (I hope).

[Noetic]

I acquired PR in 2012, was issued the card in 2016, and at my NCS appointment I was told I needed to prove that I was still resident from 2012-2016. P60's to cover all of these years was sufficient (I hope).

If your evidence submitted to HO covered 2007-2016 (since 2016 was when the card was issued), wouldn't the HO have copies of all relevant documents already? Not sure how much of what you send they would've kept on file.

I've set aside my P60s and so on to cover 2007-2010 if HO ask for them, since NCS didn't want any evidence other than the last 5/6 years of P60 (and even those I had to insist on as they were adamant they didn't need them!).

[ohara]

All of my evidence actually covered 2009-2015, except one piece which was a letter from my employer saying that I had been working there since 2007.

HO disregarded everything except the letter and recorded my PR date as 2012 (5 years from when I started working).

[Noetic]

All of my evidence actually covered 2009-2015, except one piece which was a letter from my employer saying that I had been working there since 2007.

HO disregarded everything except the letter and recorded my PR date as 2012 (5 years from when I started working).

I'd assume they still copied the evidence - although from my SARI didn't get copies included just the records discussing / listing the docs submitted for PR. As I said elsewhere though HO also couldn't be bothered to figure out my PR date so who knows what's going to go wrong with my application

[etalgor]

Indeed, that is what i was afraid for. More evidence...
At least in your case, they only asked from 2012, that is, the date from which you aquired PR status. So 4 years, not 5, not 6? Anyway, this is only what NCS asks, not necessarily what home office wants. In my case, it would still help me, since i can cover my period from the date of PR status (either 2012 or 2013 - i applied in 2013 but might have obtained status in 2012).
Ironically, i am now working in a governement department (another one not the home office ). That being said, there are no P60s any more - not printed copies anyway, everything is online. They just want make life a hell for us, i am sure they can and in fact they do check the online records from the NI number...

[Noetic]

Easiest would be to request work history from HMRC and for the 2011 period anything official including a tenancy agreement, job centre letter, GP letter etc should prove you were resident in the UK. Your PR card also covering this time would logically prove that residence was *lawful*.

[noajthan]

Anyway, now the challenge is to prove "lawful resodence" not "treaty rights" i guess. The AN guidance says:

Your passports OR say why you are unable to provide one on page 24 and supply
• Letters from employers, educational establishments or other Government Departments indicating the applicant’s presence in the United Kingdom during the relevant period

Where did you get "lawful" from

Obviously it is good to be lawful in a modern Western democracy. And anyway the good character requirements will dig deep and probe; they will weigh, measure and see if an applicant is deemed to have been found wanting.

I suspect "indicating applicant's presence" is as simple as that: presence.

[etalgor]

I have very little for 2011 - renting from a private landlord with some very infomal tennancy agreement set up ages before, then i was not even registered with GP, no job centre etc since i was looking for jobs online...all fine at the time Still i was residing very legally and even more exercising treaty rights. Anyway, any such evidence i think would be very speculative as it is nowhere required by the naturalisation guidance and has little in common with lawfull residency... If they said clearly that only evidence for the period post-PR status date is needed, that would make life easier - but even this would be exaggerated, i think that only evidence that PR status was not lost would be fair - so for example to show that was in UK at least a day every 2 years, and even this would be superfluous, since one has to declare the absence periods for the last 5 yrs, but not to prove them.

[Noetic]

Regardless of route of attaining PR/IRL, residing in the UK for the last 5 years prior to applying for naturalisation -
Including at least the last 12 months free from immigration restrictions - is one of the conditions you need to fulfil in order to apply for naturalisation.

[etalgor]

"lawful residence" is from the Guide AN:
Evidence of lawful residence during the 5 (or, if the applicant is married to or in civil partnership to a British citizen, 3) years before the date of the application

As for the presence in UK, i think is very important that the evidence of presence in UK is asked from the bodies mentioned there: employers, educational bodies or governement. These bodies do check and i think they are legally required to check legal residence status. As i said, it all makes sense, if somebody cannot show the passport evidence ( like leave to remain stamps) for whatever reason then they should explain on page 24 why they cannot produce the passport and show this alternative evidence, which in theory should have been derived from the primary evidene ( that is, it is assumed that the employer, univerisity etc had checked the passport and the leave stamps). All makes great sense for those cases, except for EEA route this makes no sense, is just left ambiguous to complicate life.