Surinder Singh Route via Denmark/Sweden

[_Angel_]

hi all,

I am a naturalized British citizens currently living in UK. I am thinking of moving to Denmark in Sept so I can qualify for Surinder Singh and can apply for my brother.

Assuming, the remain wins, I have following questions

- What will be the chances of renegotiation effects on SS route if I apply in December 2016 for my brother visa. My plan is to move to Denmark in Sept 2016 and after three months apply for my brother visa in Dec. 2016.
- Any member on this forum, who has utilized this route via Denmark/Sweden and can share their experience with me.

Thanks

[CR001]

None of us can guess what the post referendum effect will be on the SS route. See the link below for many topics and discussions.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/eu-ref ... -deal-f55/

How old is your brother?

What does he do in his home country?

Does he have family in home country?

[noajthan]

- a brother is an extended family member so does he have recent prior dependency on you
What sort of dependency?

And/or has he lived in your household recently, where you were the head of the house

[_Angel_]

How old is your brother? He is 22 years old
What does he do in his home country? He is student
Does he have family in home country? He is unmarried and lives with our parents

a brother is an extended family member so does he have recent prior dependency on you
What sort of dependency? - He is financially dependent upon myself and our parent

And/or has he lived in your household recently, where you were the head of the house - We only have one house in my home country and that is on my fathers' name. I am currently living in UK, and he is living in Pakistan. I send them money regularly...

[CR001]

I don't think he will qualify to be honest. He is not solely dependent on you, does not live with you and has not recently lived with you in YOUR household. If you are a naturalised BC, then you have likely been living in the UK for at least 3-6 years.

Do you have a spouse/children?

If yes, would they move to Denmark/Sweden too??

[_Angel_]

I don't think he will qualify to be honest. He is not solely dependent on you, does not live with you and has not recently lived with you in YOUR household. If you are a naturalised BC, then you have likely been living in the UK for at least 3-6 years.

Do you have a spouse/children?

If yes, would they move to Denmark/Sweden too??

Thanks for replying. Yes, I have been living in UK for last 6 years. I do have kids and they will move to Denmark/Sweden with me.

If you don't mind me asking, why you think he will not qualify, as he is financially dependent upon me? or is there anything else/basic I am missing? I have gone through thiswebsite to gather the information.

[CR001]

Other family members (e.g. siblings, cousins, etc.) if they are dependent on the Union citizen/EEA national or are living under his/her roof in the country they come from

Can't see how your brother can be WHOLLY dependent on you if he is living with and also being supported by your parents.

How often do you send money and whose name do you send it to (brother, father, mother)?

What has made you decide on Denmark/Sweden??

[noajthan]

If you don't mind me asking, why you think he will not qualify, as he is financially dependent upon me? or is there anything else/basic I am missing? I have gone through thiswebsite to gather the information.

You will have to meet the Danish requirement for siblings which is intimated here:

Union citizens/EEA nationals can obtain more information about which family members may be eligible for a registration certificate or residence card and the conditions that must be satisfied at their local Regional State Administration

Have you checked the details with SRA?

And, in order for brother to return to UK with you, you will need to:
1) satisfy the UK against their definition of dependency. Probably/possibly different from Danish test.

It may not have to be 100% support (in UK context) but it will have to be for essential needs. If parents also provide essential needs (eg food, housing) you may have to fight your corner.

2) Meet the UK's 'centre of life' acid test or wrapper around the cleaner, purer EU law.
.
Be aware that in event of Bremain (instead of Brexit) this area is likely to change (drastically).
HO already plays hardball with 'family reunification' so listen out for the sound of screeching goalposts.

[_Angel_]

How often do you send money and whose name do you send it to (brother, father, mother)?

I send them every month, some on my father's name and some on my brother name for his education and other stuff

What has made you decide on Denmark/Sweden??

Nothing specifically. my first choice was Ireland, but on this forum, I found out that Irish authorities are delaying any of these cases so just picked Denmark/Sweden as I have few friends in both the countries who are willing to help me in settling down there. So wherever I find my field (IT) related job is really the criteria. In your opinion, is it a bad choice? Do you know any other country with less strict criteria than Denmark/Sweden?

[Casa]

IMHO 'education and other stuff' won't prove that your brother is wholly dependent on you. Even more difficult to establish when money is sometimes transferred to your father.

[noajthan]

How often do you send money and whose name do you send it to (brother, father, mother)?

I send them every month, some on my father's name and some on my brother name for his education and other stuff]

It's not as simple as sending some money; it may not have to be 100% support (under UK Regulations) but it will have to be for essential needs;
eg food, housing.

You will need to be sure both Denmark (or wherever) & UK recognise and accept the support that is provided (on their own terms). It's no good satisfying one country's requirements but not the other.

Have you contacted SRA (in Denmark) yet?

[_Angel_]

You will need to be sure both Denmark (or wherever) & UK recognise and accept the support that is provided (on their own terms). It's no good satisfying one country's requirements but not the other.

Have you contacted SRA (in Denmark) yet?

I have not contacted them yet. I am gathering some information online to check how to proceed with this one in a very smooth manner.

I have looked at their website and the local (Danish) Law webiste in Danish as well. Just reading through this and trying to understand the best possible way to approach.

Also, have gone through this document
http://ec.europa.eu/justice/citizen/doc ... 013_en.pdf

Do you have any suggestions about how I should approach this? I am willing to move to any other country as well if that makes things easier/simpler?

[noajthan]

Do you have any suggestions about how I should approach this? I am willing to move to any other country as well if that makes things easier/simpler?

Sounds like you are doing all the right things.

EFMs only have to be facilitated in Union states which is why there are some variations for EFMs across countries.
EU case law applies across the board though.
I'm not aware of any member state where EFMs get an easy ride.

The point is you will have to satisfy both countries in the equation, the temporary host and then UK.

[_Angel_]

Do you have any suggestions about how I should approach this? I am willing to move to any other country as well if that makes things easier/simpler?

Sounds like you are doing all the right things.

EFMs only have to be facilitated in Union states which is why there are some variations for EFMs across countries.
EU case law applies across the board though.
I'm not aware of any member state where EFMs get an easy ride.

The point is you will have to satisfy both countries in the equation, the temporary host and then UK.

Thanks for replying. One more question, Are EFMs allowed to stay in the temporary host (assuming they are granted entry clearance) as long as they want, if you decide not to move back to UK?

[noajthan]

Thanks for replying. One more question, Are EFMs allowed to stay in the temporary host (assuming they are granted entry clearance) as long as they want, if you decide not to move back to UK?

The EU doc you linked above explains all that.

As long as they have a sponsor in country who is a qualified person then yes the EFM may reside, work, study in the member state.
And after 5 years the EFM may acquire PR in that country.

Any path to citizenship then depends on the specifics for that country under the domestic law of the land.

[secret.simon]

I am going to take a slightly different angle from Noajthan here and will undoubtedly be corrected if my interpretation is incorrect, but as I understand it, EFMs are subject to domestic law and the only requirements of the Directive are that

• a) their applications must be considered more favourably than the equivalent non-EEA citizen's application,
  
  b) there can not be standard rules for EFMs and each application must be considered on its individual merits and
  
  c) each refusal must be accompanied by reasons and must be open to judicial review.

Have a read of an analysis of the Rahman judgment of the CJEU.

As an aside, one thing that you should factor in is that Denmark has the most opt-outs of EU law after the UK. In the event of a Brexit, it is the leading candidate to be the next country to have a referendum on leaving the EU. It is highly eurosceptic and had voted against both the Maastricht Treaty (hence the many optouts, which induced them to accept it in a second referendum) and the euro.

While Sweden is famous for its liberalism, the recent migrant crisis is testing patience even there.

For the purposes for getting your brother to the EU, I would suggest the following steps.

First study the national laws of each EU country as regards EFMs. As the article I linked to above makes clear, they can vary.

Make a shortlist of at least three.

Then look at the possibility that they will leave the EU and plan accordingly.

[_Angel_]

Thanks secret.simon for your comments. Now more confused though

Make a shortlist of at least three.

Do you have any suggestions regarding this?

Thanks

[secret.simon]

Being quite conservative (in terms of risk taking, not in other matters), I would prioritise Germany and France on my list. They are the cornerstone of the EU and would be the most likely to stay in the EU.

Other countries to consider (I think I read in your posts that you have a background in IT) are Finland, Estonia and possibly the other Baltic countries. Finland and Estonia have a strong background in IT services. Finland is the home of Nokia (Sweden is of course home to Eriksson). Latvia is where this forum is theoretically based (scroll right down to the bottom).

You will also have to factor in the effect of the move on your children's education.

I would suggest prioritising the search on Germany, with any of the Benelux countries a close second and France as the third option. As mentioned, have a gander at Finland and the Baltic states too. Keep in mind that Finnish and Estonian are linguistically unrelated to any other European language (apart from Hungarian) and hence quite hard to learn.

As regards Germany, perhaps you can look at settling in Aachen, a German city that is just 15 minutes by bus from both the Netherlands and Belgium. Apparently, your children could go to any of the three schooling systems.

PS: I do not know anything about the immigration systems of these countries, which would be for you to research. I just suggested the countries that I would research if I were in your shoes.

[_Angel_]

Thanks again for the detailed message. I will look into these. One of my friend has got successful SS route for his mother from Germany and she is now in UK but of course she is not considered extended family member but immediate family member.
I also know some one who has done this from Holland but, again, for mother. I have not seen any case yet for brother.

[_Angel_]

Ok... A bit of update...I manage to secure a Job in Denmark & now I need suggestions from you guys... As far as my research, I can see that Denmark is bit easy on 3rd country citizens relative of EU citizen than Sweden but I am not sure if I can manage to secure my brother entry.

So if you have done this in Denmark or have any other comments, please reply. as I desperately need suggestions.

Thanks

[_Angel_]

@noajthan
@secret.simon

Do you guys have any thoughts after exit vote?

[noajthan]

@noajthan
@secret.simon

Do you guys have any thoughts after exit vote?

You may find yourself emigrating to Denmark (for good). Lovely place btw.

[_Angel_]

@noajthan
@secret.simon

Do you guys have any thoughts after exit vote?

You may find yourself emigrating to Denmark (for good). Lovely place btw.

I used to live there for about a year before , so in your opinion, coming back to UK with SS (with brother) will be a challenge? As, I understand, there are no immediate changes in law and but home office might make it very difficult to come back.

[malik0543]

@angle
Laws are clear in Denmark but don't know how they implement them. The only issue is extended family member, and it's hard, I am trying for my bother from last 2 years in Ireland but no luck.
I have spend thousands of euros.

But anyway you can try, the good thing is that Denmark make decision in 3 months or many be quicker.

Also Czech Republic is quite good as well, they accpect extended family member Upto 25 year and studying.

I would advise you to visit all EU counties before putting application.

Germany is best for Eu citizens and families but they don't recognised extended family members.

Hungry is good as well as far rules are concerned.

Also find out where you can get full right of appeal in case they refused application so you can take to court.

Like in Uk if application refused you can take case to asylum and immigration tribunal.

I personal think UK is best country to issue EU residence card to extended family member if you are citizens other than UK.
But this is not the case right now.

So all the best. And keep us update as majority people get displaced once they sorted.

[DingDong]

I personal think UK is best country to issue EU residence card to extended family member if you are citizens other than UK.
But this is not the case right now.

Hello Malik,

I am an Irish citizen and have similar plans in the future for siblings but currently in the process of relocating to UK, have you came across any success stories for extended family members getting EU residence card if they are citizen's other then UK and especially after Brexit although I hope nothing will be changed for atleast 2 years or until they pull the Article 50 trigger.

Thanks
Hamza