Date for application for PR

[lolal]

Hello and hope you are well.

I would be grateful for your suggestion on simple question - which date shall I apply for PR.
I am non-EEA family member of British citizen (Surrinder Singh case). Just trying to understand when I can apply for Permanent Residence as couldn't find this specific answer or something common to my case..

I had simple UK C-visa 27.04.2011 - 27.10.2011, then I received visa EEA Family Member 23.07.2011 till 23.01.2012 , then 5 years residence card EEA Family Member 07.03.2012-07.03.2017

The only stamp I discovered from UK immigration officer is 17.09.2011 from Bristol (not clear if in or out the UK), all other stamps are from France immigration officers, from where we moved to the UK..
Shall I consider 17.09.2011 the date I entered to the UK (which falls within activity of visa EEA Family Member) or shall I calculate 5 years from the date 5 years residence card was issued (07.03.2012)?

Other question is while we slowly were moving to the UK and I started to work in the UK from 10.2011, my husband was back and forward France-UK, completing things in France, and our first rental agreement in the UK started from January 2012 when he finally moved to the UK.. Once again , I was working in the UK from Oct.11..

Thank you in advance for your kind support!

[noajthan]

Hello and hope you are well.

I would be grateful for your suggestion on simple question - which date shall I apply for PR.
I am non-EEA family member of British citizen (Surrinder Singh case). Just trying to understand when I can apply for Permanent Residence as couldn't find this specific answer or something common to my case..

I had simple UK C-visa 27.04.2011 - 27.10.2011, then I received visa EEA Family Member 23.07.2011 till 23.01.2012 , then 5 years residence card EEA Family Member 07.03.2012-07.03.2017

The only stamp I discovered from UK immigration officer is 17.09.2011 from Bristol (not clear if in or out the UK), all other stamps are from France immigration officers, from where we moved to the UK..
Shall I consider 17.09.2011 the date I entered to the UK (which falls within activity of visa EEA Family Member) or shall I calculate 5 years from the date 5 years residence card was issued (07.03.2012)?

Other question is while we slowly were moving to the UK and I started to work in the UK from 10.2011, my husband was back and forward France-UK, completing things in France, and our first rental agreement in the UK started from January 2012 when he finally moved to the UK.. Once again , I was working in the UK from Oct.11..

Thank you in advance for your kind support!

Do you have an exit stamp from France?

What colour is the UK stamp of 17 Sept 2011?
Does it show the air/port name?

Do you have a copy of the original RC application form? that should contain date of entry into UK too.

Pro tip always scan and keep copies of everything relating to immigration matters. For ever.
You never know when you will need the information.
Because chances are HO will have it on a databank in the bowels of HO HQ - and will be crosschecking you.

You could request a SAR from UKVI & that may well show the date of interest too.

Obviously you know your movements from that time best of all. Chances are it was 17/9 (as you were in harness and at work by October) unless you were flitting across the Channel too.
Worst case use the RC date.

Continuity of residence is maintained if absences are ordinarily less than 6 months in a 12 month period (from the anniversary of a person's arrival/re-entry into UK).
So as long as hubby kept the trips back and forth short all should be well.

However you need to be sure hubby came to UK on same date that you did; ie the effective start date of SS rights in UK.
Did he return to UK with you on 17/9?

One thought, if you only rented your place in January (2012) where did you live initially ie from September 2011?

[lolal]

Thank you so much. It is getting clearer.
Looked at all docs and stamps again.
I understand that the date of entry depends on my hubby entrance starting to exercise TR in the UK and me being present in the UK. It also relates to activity of visa EEA FP or RC (time spent in the UK under C-visa doesn't count?).
Now big question!
I was in the UK under Visa EEA FP Family Member to acc my hubby since 17Sep11, started to work October, applied for NIN in October.
I found the letter from UK Border Agency when they confirmed my application for RC on 21Dec11.
So, which date shall I count - Sep entry or Dec application date?

Regarding the TR of my hubby. We have some bank statements from September stating the address we lived by - at his mother home.. We don't have the bills. I have my P45 issued on the same address. Will this be sufficient? We started the rental agreement in January12.

Thank you for your suggestions!

[noajthan]

Thank you so much. It is getting clearer.
Looked at all docs and stamps again.
I understand that the date of entry depends on my hubby entrance starting to exercise TR in the UK and me being present in the UK. It also relates to activity of visa EEA FP or RC (time spent in the UK under C-visa doesn't count?).
Now big question!
I was in the UK under Visa EEA FP Family Member to acc my hubby since 17Sep11, started to work October, applied for NIN in October.
I found the letter from UK Border Agency when they confirmed my application for RC on 21Dec11.
So, which date shall I count - Sep entry or Dec application date?

Regarding the TR of my hubby. We have some bank statements from September stating the address we lived by - at his mother home.. We don't have the bills. I have my P45 issued on the same address. Will this be sufficient? We started the rental agreement in January12.

Thank you for your suggestions!

As hubby is British he didn't need to exercise treaty rights in UK.
All that matters is when was he back in UK to reside. (Cohabitation helps but not actually mandatory under EU law).

Your date of working is irrelevant.

Did hubby return to live in UK in September?
The date of RC may be slightly relevant if you have no other way of proving hubby was back in UK.

As treaty rights don't come into the equation for a returned SS-er, the only other thing you need is proof of residence (as well as identity and relationship ofcourse).

[lolal]

Good question.
He is self-employed, however opened his company in the UK in Feb2012..
However we have bills from bank from Oct 10 showing his UK address (with his mother address), and my payment slips also direct to the same address.
Also, as I understand I won't be able to enter the UK if not to join my hubby (it is stated in visa description..)?-
Would bank statement and my pay slips to the same address be enough to confirm his residence in the UK?
Thank you

[noajthan]

Good question.
He is self-employed, however opened his company in the UK in Feb2012..
However we have bills from bank from Oct 10 showing his UK address (with his mother address), and my payment slips also direct to the same address.
Also, as I understand I won't be able to enter the UK if not to join my hubby (it is stated in visa description..)?-
Would bank statement and my pay slips to the same address be enough to confirm his residence in the UK?
Thank you

Yes, as per entry visa you would have had to join or accompany your husband.
But just because it was issued on that basis doesn't prove hubby was actually in country waiting for you (if he was).
You need proof he was in UK.
Got anything else - travel booking, ticket stub? (passport stamp?).

[lolal]

I have only stamp in my passport upon entering UK, he didn't need his being stamped. Immigration officer wouldn't stamp my visa if my hubby wouldn't be standing near..
Why is the bank statement not enough?
Confused now.. Any other options to confirm his presence in the UK?
Thank you

[noajthan]

I have only stamp in my passport upon entering UK, he didn't need his being stamped. Immigration officer wouldn't stamp my visa if my hubby wouldn't be standing near..
Why is the bank statement not enough?
Confused now.. Any other options to confirm his presence in the UK?
Thank you

A bank statement (by itself) doesn't prove where someone lives. I have a relative who's been abroad for 3 months; their bank statements still come to the house.

You need to show when hubby returned to UK because that's when the returning rights as a Surinder Singh-er kicked in.
For something that significant it would be good to have a travel booking confirmation, a ticket stub, (passport stamp) & etc.
If you can't satisfy HO of that then the whole basis of you being in UK falls down.

[lolal]

I understand, thank you, this is really helpful.
He actually drove his car to the UK, so no train or plane tickets are available.
We have rental agreement on our both names for flat in the UK starting Jan12.. Do you think this would satisfy the requirement for an entry date?
Thank you

[noajthan]

I understand, thank you, this is really helpful.
He actually drove his car to the UK, so no train or plane tickets are available.
We have rental agreement on our both names for flat in the UK starting Jan12.. Do you think this would satisfy the requirement for an entry date?
Thank you

Rental agreement. Now you're talking.
If it was signed by all parties it shows presence in UK in the January.

And at least that's saved you 2 months compared to using the date of RC (issued on basis of having a sponsor). But of course include RC in bundle too.

Pro tip: keep scans/copies of all documents and form and payment details you submit - for reference and in case of any dispute.

[lolal]

Now I understand!!
Ok, so the rental agreement was signed in Dec11 and may be considered as starting date for application.
I also found the bill, when my hubby bought the mobile phone card with number, signed the contract at Carphone shop, the receipts are originals and contain his name, date, his address in London, his card details. It is dated as Nov11. Can such receipt be also prove of his presence in the UK?

Another big question - I understand that we have to apply 28 days before the x date (from which we count the residence).
However if it falls to Nov or Dec with XMas all around.. can we wait and apply in January after holidays?

Thank you

[noajthan]

Now I understand!!
Ok, so the rental agreement was signed in Dec11 and may be considered as starting date for application.
I also found the bill, when my hubby bought the mobile phone card with number, signed the contract at Carphone shop, the receipts are originals and contain his name, date, his address in London, his card details. It is dated as Nov11. Can such receipt be also prove of his presence in the UK?

Another big question - I understand that we have to apply 28 days before the x date (from which we count the residence).
However if it falls to Nov or Dec with XMas all around.. can we wait and apply in January after holidays?

Thank you

Cooking on gas now!

Personally I would stick with the rental agreement.
But the phone contract/receipt may be plausible too if he signed it.

I don't know what you mean by all that "28 days" stuff.
Sounds like something to do with UK immigration/visas and not EU route(?).
Can you rephrase the question?

[lolal]

I read that we have to apply 28 days before x date (date the residence started 5 years ago).
So, if we entered in Dec11 then we can apply in Nov16..
Or does EEA route have different demand?
Which date can I date my application for PR & send it?
Thank you for suggestions!

[noajthan]

I read that we have to apply 28 days before x date (date the residence started 5 years ago).
So, if we entered in Dec11 then we can apply in Nov16..
Or does EEA route have different demand?
Which date can I date my application for PR & send it?
Thank you for suggestions!

In your case the holy grail of PR will be acquired simply after 5 years of residence (as sponsor is a returned SS-er).

But you don't have a 'visa'. Your 'leave' is not going to expire (as you don't have 'leave to remain' in the first place).
(That is all for the poor souls on the UK migration trajectory).

You could acquire PR and never apply for a 'confirmation of PR' card and you would still have settled status in UK.
Or you could apply for the card say 1,2 or 3 or more years later.
(In the current political climate you'd probably be barking mad to do that - but you still could).

So I'm not aware of any "apply 28 days early rule" for people on EU route. You'll have to give me a clue where you got that from.

[lolal]

Ok.. I see so the rule for 28 days is not applicable for EEA route.. (For ILR it is possible to apply 28 days before)..
It means I can apply on the date my 5 years knocking on the door or even later! This is really good for Xmas lovers!

As we touch & discuss the dates here.. I do plan to apply then for naturalisation.. so.. after receiving PR, I understand correct, that it is possible to apply for without waiting 1 year (as ILR holders await usually)?

Thank you!

[noajthan]

Ok.. I see so the rule for 28 days is not applicable for EEA route.. (For ILR it is possible to apply 28 days before)..
It means I can apply on the date my 5 years knocking on the door or even later! This is really good for Xmas lovers!

As we touch & discuss the dates here.. I do plan to apply then for naturalisation.. so.. after receiving PR, I understand correct, that it is possible to apply for without waiting 1 year (as ILR holders await usually)?

Thank you!

I see, you're talking about UK-route rules - not applicable.

Yes. once you have settled status and the now mandatory 'confirmation of PR' card you can shoot for the privilege of citizenship directly as you have a BC spouse. (In immigration terms at least that's about the one benefit of a BC spouse).

That's assuming you can (or will) meet all other requirements, including:
LITUK, proof English, sound mind, referees, good character, absences within UK limits (note: not EU ones!), 3 years residence, proof you were physically present in UK 3 years before date of application & etc etc.

[lolal]

Hurray enjoying clarity!
Very grateful for your kind support!