UK to leave EU - Surinder Singh consequences?

[sadmanonatrain]

We plan on getting into and living in the UK via this route. The likely outcome looks as though the UK will leave. What are the implications specifically to people using this route? If any? I understand it's at least two years for it to come into effect. Will it be status quo for that time period? And what happens after?

I got the consensus that it wont affect it at all months ago? As in it'll be like Switzerland or Norway, as in within the European Economic Area? Or was I misreading?

I appreciate any in depth opinions/facts. Thanks.

[gillacious_505]

I have the same question. Will the status quo remain for Surinder Singh?

[Casa]

With yesterday's vote to leave, the days are numbered for the SS route and it will be a question of how much longer it will be in place, which no one can forecast at present. Caution in using SS has been recommended on the forum for some time. Even if the vote had been to remain, this route was likely to have been tightened considerably. .

[gillacious_505]

Having said that the UK is still legally obliged to comply with EU directives and law until it formally exits the Union after invoking the Article 50 of Lisbon Treaty. And that would begin from October 2016 when Cameron resigns.
It can take upto 2 years from October for this to happen.

As immigration is main agenda, UK wont compromise on Freedom of Movement.

I have made up my mind. I will be going through Surinder Singh Category. The initial visa (ec directive 2004/38 is already granted from the non-eu country. And its just the case of how quickly I can get Residence Card in Germany. I am hoping to do within 1 month of arrival in Germany.(hopefully not sounding over-ambitious)

If UK plays hard ball and fails to recognise the SS category during the processing of invoking the Lisbon Treaty(during re-negotiations of Leave), might just stay in Germany for good.

I think voting to Leave has lead to the situation where if a person wants to go for SS category, it has given a relatively more time then what it would given if UK would have remain. Because as a part of pre brexit negotiations, there was a probability of scrapping the SS category from immediate effect if UK opted to Remain. But now UK has opted to Leave. So the status quo remains for about +2 years from October.

I would wait for couple of weeks before I finally decide to go for this. That's my perspective. Any comments from experienced and senior members would be appreciated.

[sadmanonatrain]

Interesting. So Remain might have been worse for this route? But not legally according to a barrister “It is part of the draft which comes under ‘clarifications’, not treaty change, and Surinder Singh is a right which comes under the EU treaty,” he said. “Whether that ‘clarification’ will have any legal effect is questionable.”

What has happened or has been happening in a nutshell for this route to have become more risky and not recommended Casa? Is Ireland a no-go these days then?

It should remain status quo shoudn't it? Like our passports, drivers licences that all say EU on them.

I wonder how the, what is essentially a spouse visa for the UK, negotiations are going in regards to the potential lowering of the financial requirement/time needed to be in the job; that half of population can not meet.

[CR001]

What has happened or has been happening in a nutshell for this route to have become more risky and not recommended Casa? Is Ireland a no-go these days then?

Migrants have abused the route, particularly through Ireland, to bring mother, brother, uncle, aunty etc to the UK.

I wonder how the, what is essentially a spouse visa for the UK, negotiations are going in regards to the potential lowering of the financial requirement/time needed to be in the job; that half of population can not meet.

This has nothing to do with the leaving the EU. It is UK immigration rules alone and the UK government can decide what to do if they wish to raise it, lower it or make it tougher.

[secret.simon]

Having said that the UK is still legally obliged to comply with EU directives and law until it formally exits the Union after invoking the Article 50 of Lisbon Treaty. And that would begin from October 2016 when Cameron resigns. It can take upto 2 years from October for this to happen.

I agree with this assessment.

So Remain might have been worse for this route?

Remain would have triggered the EU-EU deal, which would have made SS more difficult. Leave means that SS, unamended, is still in place for two years. So, ironically, Remain was worse than Leave for SSers in the short-term.

I wonder how the, what is essentially a spouse visa for the UK, negotiations are going in regards to the potential lowering of the financial requirement/time needed to be in the job; that half of population can not meet.

That is awaiting a ruling from the UK Supreme Court. Nothing to do with with EU, as CR001 said.

[Petaltop]

I wonder how the, what is essentially a spouse visa for the UK, negotiations are going in regards to the potential lowering of the financial requirement/time needed to be in the job; that half of population can not meet.

If all you earn is national minimum wage, then you can meet the requriements by working 49 hours at NMW and you can do more than 1 job to meet this. For the next visa, both of the couples wages can be used to meet the 18.6

You will havet to earn more money under the welfare reforms anyway. The 18.6 was based on the poverty level for couples for the benefit Working Tax Credits. WTC is one of the benefits being relaced by Universal Credit. The Tax Credits couple rate benefit won't exist under UC. Even if you have a child, under UC you and your wife will have set amounts to earn each week or will face UC conditions i.e. workfare.

[secret.simon]

The minimum wage/national living wage is going up anyway. I am sure they will factor that into the calculations for the threshold for the spouse visa.

[khanmzk]

i know i am going to ask a out of discussion question but because of this unexpected brexit.it came to
my dumb mind.after government invokes article 50 and start formally pulling out UK from EU.sooner or later
SS route will be closed completely.also the minimum wage rule which is 18600 is already been challenged in the court back in February has also been considered as not a absurd rule.where 70% of UK population fail to achieve this figure.now after UK completely pull out from EU in 2 years or so does it make any difference for British citizens to join there family members in UK which have been chucked out of the country and in self exile..whereas European nationals take benefits live with there families in council homes claim tax credits etc etc.and on top of everything marry non EU nationals mostly from 3rd world countries to get them papers to stay in UK.i personally know people who are proud of Beating the UK immigration system by doing so.i am not pointing any community or country at all.but on the other hand UK government have made this tougher rule of 18600 for is the win of poor.does poor won?.UK pull out of EU to give all this quality life to there own citizens will it happen ?.i was reading a article in a newspaper the other day it said if you are poor you vote for Brexit.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/com ... estminster

[secret.simon]

70% of UK population fail to achieve this figure.

Nowhere near 70%

https://www.jcwi.org.uk/blog/2016/01/27 ... r-uk-under

Additionally, these Rules disproportionately affect women, 55% of whom earn less than £18,600, compared to 27% of men. These Rules also put young people at a disadvantage. 53% of 20-29 year olds would not meet the minimum income requirement as opposed to 36% of people aged 46-60 years old. Finally, those living outside of London are at a disadvantage with, on average, 43% earning less than the income threshold, compared to 27% of Londoners.

[noajthan]

We plan on getting into and living in the UK via this route. The likely outcome looks as though the UK will leave. What are the implications specifically to people using this route? If any? I understand it's at least two years for it to come into effect. Will it be status quo for that time period? And what happens after?

I got the consensus that it wont affect it at all months ago? As in it'll be like Switzerland or Norway, as in within the European Economic Area? Or was I misreading?

I appreciate any in depth opinions/facts. Thanks.

In my understanding, free movement derives from membership of EEA. And it is 'only' the EU that UK has decided to leave.

Be that as it may, noone starting (or continuing) their EU migration journey via UK now will have time to acquire PR (except perhaps retirement or invalidity and similar special cases).

Noone knows what they may be but, presumably, there will be transitional arrangements put in place for those still on an EU migration trajectory when the exit actually occurs. (Including those who taken the SS route via Europe).
Think of it as the British sense of fair play, if you will.

[mkhan2525]

If the UK government doesn’t apply transitional arrangements to those non-eu family members of the British Citizens currently in another member state upon return, I’m sure their entry would be covered under Article 8. This is likely to be the view of the ECJ as the UK will not be withdrawing from the Human Rights Act.

We may get the decision on the MM case by 29th July before the supreme court adjourns for the summer break which may take some pressure off the SS route if in our favour.

[ouflak1]

I’m sure their entry would be covered under Article 8. This is likely to be the view of the ECJ as the UK will not be withdrawing from the Human Rights Act.

This argument has already been made and failed. The counter argument being that the UK citizen can always go live with their spouse in the spouse's country with no restriction.

[mkhan2525]

Well that view may change when the Supreme Court gives its judgement on the MM case. The court also heard the SS Congo case alongside the MM case which touches upon this territory.

For now this issue is far from settled.

[lurli]

SS route is as open today as it was 2 years ago, for people aspiring this route, I must stress that they should extend their sincere gratitude for the people who voted leave. There is no concern to SS route now for the next two years at least.

[ouflak1]

Well that view may change when the Supreme Court gives its judgement on the MM case.

What would the counter argument be? That it is 'humanely' unreasonable to expect the UK spouse to go their spouse's country? I'm not sure how that argument could stand considering the non-UK spouse has got to take the same flight, except in the opposite direction.

[jonathan1989]

What if the UK spouse is denied residency or even entry into their spouses country though?

[logical_1]

Me and my BC spouse have been resident in Germany for last 3months, I have been issued with a German residence card which is valid for 5 years. Would it be possible for usbto do S.S, are there any risks for us in future?

[noajthan]

Me and my BC spouse have been resident in Germany for last 3months, I have been issued with a German residence card which is valid for 5 years. Would it be possible for usbto do S.S, are there any risks for us in future?

Well you clearly won't have time to come back to UK and reside there for 5 years in order to acquire PR in the regular way.
Whatever happens for you will probably depend on any transitional arrangements that may be put in place for those who are still 'in flight' on an EU migration trajectory when the final exit actually occurs.

[logical_1]

Me and my BC spouse have been resident in Germany for last 3months, I have been issued with a German residence card which is valid for 5 years. Would it be possible for usbto do S.S, are there any risks for us in future?

Well you clearly won't have time to come back to UK and reside there for 5 years in order to acquire PR in the regular way.
Whatever happens for you will probably depend on any transitional arrangements that may be put in place for those who are still 'in flight' on an EU migration trajectory when the final exit actually occurs.

So, is it safer if we stay in Germany instead??
All this is really confusing and affecting us specially when you have children.
S.S aside do you think its better to settle on Germany nowvthat the UK has left the EU?

[noajthan]

So, is it safer if we stay in Germany instead??
All this is really confusing and affecting us specially when you have children.
S.S aside do you think its better to settle on Germany nowvthat the UK has left the EU?

I can't possibly comment. Depends if you like Germany and Germany likes you.

Don't forget UK hasn't left yet.
Even the go-signal to leave has yet to be given (Article 50).
So the final exit probably won't be for 2.5 to 3 or more years from now.

But you can do the maths - the chances are there's not going to be time to come back and then spend 5 years in UK and get PR.
There won't be any 'PR' by then.

And if all goes to plan (whatever the final plan is), UK will just be a little island floating in the Atlantic by then.

[logical_1]

It's quite nice here apart from the language barrier but hopefully that shouldn't be a problem if we plan on staying here.

What if we were to get EEA2 in time before the UK leaves the EU officially.I'm sure people on EEA2's won't be kicked out.

[noajthan]

It's quite nice here apart from the language barrier but hopefully that shouldn't be a problem if we plan on staying here.

What if we were to get EEA2 in time before the UK leaves the EU officially.I'm sure people on EEA2's won't be kicked out.

That will depend on the British sense of fair play and any transitional arrangements that may or may not be put in place. Noone knows.

[sadmanonatrain]

I've appreciated the discussion. It's been slightly calming, informative and interesting. Is there an easy way or space to follow that supreme courts ruling on the UK's own immigration in regards to spouses?

In regards to a commenter stating a do-able method with the current 18.6 requirements. I get that. But don't you also need to have been in that job for a fairly long time? Is a year? 6 months? I'm not getting married to then not be separated with my partner you know? I think most people agree the requirements are strict and has been a main reason for people seeking the SS route??

There will likely be transitional policies in place for people who have got into the UK via SS and were on path to a permanent residency Imo - as far more experienced folk have suggested.

What does MM stand for xD? Marriage..mate?