PRC advise needed

[Orsolya]

Hi All,

Me and my partner would like to apply for permanent residency. But I'm not sure if we will get it, because we did not reported the second employer to Home Office in the first year. We only reported the 1. and the 3. employer in the first year.

We are Hungarians.

In details:
My partner:
- Came to the UK 12 Aug 2009. Started to work for the first employer from 12 Aug 2009. He got the Registration Card and the registration certificate dated 05 October 2009.
- Changed employer 2 month later, which was not reported. It was an agency.
- Changed employer from 15 February 2010 and it was registered with Home Office on 18 May 2010. He worked for this company until 11 January 2016.
- He started to work for a new employer from 11 January 2016.

My questions are:
- if he applies now for permanent residency, can he get it?
- From which date will his 5 years count? 18 May 2010 or 01 May 2011 or only from 11 January 2016 (because the registration with Home Office was not complete?)

My case:
- Came to the UK 12 Aug 2009. Started to work for the first employer from 12 Aug 2009. I got the registration card on 05 October 2009 and the registration certificate too.
- Changed employer from 20 October 2009. It was not reported to Home Office.
- Changed employer from 18 February 2010. It was registered on 26 May 2010 (It is the date of the registration certificate).
- Become self employed from October 2014.

My questions are:
- Will I be able the get permanent residency if I apply now?
- From which date will my 5 years count?

Thank you for any advise in advance.

Orsolya

[noajthan]

Hi All,

Me and my partner would like to apply for permanent residency. But I'm not sure if we will get it, because we did not reported the second employer to Home Office in the first year. We only reported the 1. and the 3. employer in the first year.

We are Hungarians.

In details:
My partner:
- Came to the UK 12 Aug 2009. Started to work for the first employer from 12 Aug 2009. He got the Registration Card and the registration certificate dated 05 October 2009.
- Changed employer 2 month later, which was not reported. It was an agency.
- Changed employer from 15 February 2010 and it was registered with Home Office on 18 May 2010. He worked for this company until 11 January 2016.
- He started to work for a new employer from 11 January 2016.

My questions are:
- if he applies now for permanent residency, can he get it?
- From which date will his 5 years count? 18 May 2010 or 01 May 2011 or only from 11 January 2016 (because the registration with Home Office was not complete?)

My case:
- Came to the UK 12 Aug 2009. Started to work for the first employer from 12 Aug 2009. I got the registration card on 05 October 2009 and the registration certificate too.
- Changed employer from 20 October 2009. It was not reported to Home Office.
- Changed employer from 18 February 2010. It was registered on 26 May 2010 (It is the date of the registration certificate).
- Become self employed from October 2014.

My questions are:
- Will I be able the get permanent residency if I apply now?
- From which date will my 5 years count?

Thank you for any advise in advance.

Orsolya

As you know A8 nationals had to be fully and properly registered for WRS in first 12 months of work.

As you didn't comply fully with the registration process both your PR clocks will only have started in May 2011 (after WRS ended).
(Technically those companies committed an offence by employing non-registered staff).

Its not the end of the world, you both should have acquired PR by last May (2016).
That is assuming neither of you have enjoyed any prolonged absences from UK since 2011.

If you have ambitions for the privilege of citizenship you will need to wait until you have been free of immigration time restrictions for 12 months, so you could apply to naturalise in or after May 2017;
(assuming all other requirements for naturalisation have been/can be met).

[Orsolya]

As you know A8 nationals had to be fully and properly registered for WRS in first 12 months of work.

As you didn't comply fully with the registration process both your PR clocks will only have started in May 2011 (after WRS ended).
(Technically those companies committed an offence by employing non-registered staff).

Its not the end of the world, you both should have acquired PR by last May (2016).
That is assuming neither of you have enjoyed any prolonged absences from UK since 2011.

If you have ambitions for the privilege of citizenship you will need to wait until you have been free of immigration time restrictions for 12 months, so you could apply to naturalise in or after May 2017;
(assuming all other requirements for naturalisation have been/can be met).

Thank you for the answer.

[Orsolya]

Hi!

I would like to ask more, please can you help me?

I have just realized, that I will not get a worker status (I was always employed or self employed), but I did not have enough income to qualify for worker status, because my first son was born in 2012 and my second son in 2013 and I was mainly at home with them and I did earn enough. I have earned something but it is not enough.

Our sons were born in the UK.

How can we now apply for permanent residency card? What is the best option for us?
Is there any earning minimum what my partner needed to earn to be able to register me as a family member?

We are not married, we are only engaged. (So maybe extended family member?)

Thank you in advance.

[noajthan]

Hi!

I would like to ask more, please can you help me?

I have just realized, that I will not get a worker status (I was always employed or self employed), but I did not have enough income to qualify for worker status,...

How can we now apply for permanent residency card? What is the best option for us?
Is there any earning minimum what my partner needed to earn to be able to register me as a family member?

We are not married, we are only engaged. (So maybe extended family member?)

Thank you in advance.

Yes if unmarried you are an EFM. You have to have had a RC all this time in UK in order to apply for DCPR (but I think you said you have).

You can be included as EFM of your EEA sponsor/spouse.

HO will apply PET/MET test to sponsor/spouse's income:
https://www.freemovement.org.uk/using-m ... ne-worker/

[Orsolya]

Hi!

Thank you for your reply. I'm Hungarian, so I did not need a residency card. Also I had full time job, before my first son was born 4 years ago.

- So as I see if I would not pass the PET/MET test, it is better to include me in my partners application for PRC?
- Or should we get married? We are together for 10 years now with 2 kids. Marriage just did not happened yet....
- As I read EFM can only get the permanent resident card for 6 month. Is it right or did I miss something?

Orsolya

[noajthan]

Hi!

Thank you for your reply. I'm Hungarian, so I did not need a residency card. Also I had full time job, before my first son was born 4 years ago.

- So as I see if I would not pass the PET/MET test, it is better to include me in my partners application for PRC?
- Or should we get married? We are together for 10 years now with 2 kids. Marriage just did not happened yet....
- As I read EFM can only get the permanent resident card for 6 month. Is it right or did I miss something?

Orsolya

It may be better to be included as a family member if you don't have adequate evidence of exercising treaty rights in your own right.

But unmarried partners are supposed to have a RC before applying for confirmation of PR so lack of one seems to be a problem.

Which card are you referring to here?

I got the registration card on 05 October 2009 and the registration certificate too.

A RC for EFMs is issued for 5 years not 6 months.

See HO guidance on EFMs:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _clean.pdf
- see page 32+

Residence in line with the regulations
The applicant must be able to show they have met the conditions of regulation 8 for five continuous years. For example, an applicant who was issued a residence card as an extended family member on the basis that they were a member of the EEA national’s household, must show evidence of cohabitation with that EEA national of the five year qualifying period for permanent residence.

There may be circumstances where the five year qualifying period is made up of residency as a family member and as an extended family member. This is acceptable provided that the total five year period in question is continuous.

The applicant must provide the required documents, or they will not be able to count that period towards the five year qualifying criteria

Applying for permanent residence
Under regulation 8 of the regulations you cannot consider an applicant to be the extended family member of an EEA national until they have been issued either a registration certificate, or residence card.

An extended family member is not eligible for a document certifying permanent residence or a permanent resident card if they have not previously been issued with one of the above documents

[Orsolya]

I got the registration card on 05 October 2009 and the registration certificate too.

I ment Working registration certificate (WRS).

I don't understand anything now..... sorry....

[noajthan]

I got the registration card on 05 October 2009 and the registration certificate too.

I ment Working registration certificate (WRS).

I don't understand anything now..... sorry....

Your partner can apply for confirmation of PR in their own right.

If you have not exercised treaty rights in your own right then you can't apply (& succeed) in your own right..

To apply as a family member of your partner/sponsor it appears you need to have held a RC first (because you are an EFM).
I don't know if that means you have to have held such a RC for 5 years or just to have one now.

[Orsolya]

Your partner can apply for confirmation of PR in their own right.

So it means he can apply for permanent residency card? Just would like to know if confirmation of PR means that.

To apply as a family member of your partner/sponsor it appears you need to have held a RC first (because you are an EFM).

What about if we get married now?

[noajthan]

Your partner can apply for confirmation of PR in their own right.

So it means he can apply for permanent residency card? Just would like to know if confirmation of PR means that.

To apply as a family member of your partner/sponsor it appears you need to have held a RC first (because you are an EFM).

What about if we get married now?

Yes, 'confirmation of PR' card means DCPR.

If you get married you will be a direct family member but note the following advice from the document I linked for you above:

There may be circumstances where the five year qualifying period is made up of residency as a family member and as an extended family member. This is acceptable provided that the total five year period in question is continuous.

The applicant must provide the required documents, or they will not be able to count that period towards the five year qualifying criteria

[Orsolya]

If you get married you will be a direct family member but note the following advice from the document I linked for you above:

There may be circumstances where the five year qualifying period is made up of residency as a family member and as an extended family member. This is acceptable provided that the total five year period in question is continuous.

The applicant must provide the required documents, or they will not be able to count that period towards the five year qualifying criteria

So it means I will start my five years period when I get a RC or we get married?
Which one should I go for now?

[noajthan]

So it means I will start my five years period when I get a RC or we get married?
Which one should I go for now?

Marriage should not be done for migration reasons alone so maybe the RC is the way to go.

Once you have your RC, perhaps for a year or so, you could always test the water with an application for DCPR. After all you only risk a £65 fee.

[Orsolya]

Marriage should not be done for migration reasons alone so maybe the RC is the way to go.

Once you have your RC, perhaps for a year or so, you could always test the water with an application for DCPR. After all you only risk a £65 fee.

Can you help me how to apply for RC?
There are so many ways: https://www.gov.uk/eea-registration-certificate

[noajthan]

Can you help me how to apply for RC?
There are so many ways: https://www.gov.uk/eea-registration-certificate

It's this one:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... rm-eea-efm

Guidance:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... -nationals

Have a look, come back with any questions - surely someone can help.

[Orsolya]

Thank you so much.

Once you have your RC, perhaps for a year or so, you could always test the water with an application for DCPR. After all you only risk a £65 fee.

- Why could I test the water after 1 year? I just don't understand the 1 year. Why could I apply and with what status?

[noajthan]

Thank you so much.

Once you have your RC, perhaps for a year or so, you could always test the water with an application for DCPR. After all you only risk a £65 fee.

- Why could I test the water after 1 year? I just don't understand the 1 year. Why could I apply and with what status?

I'm suggesting take a chance and apply on basis of an EEA partner/sponsor (who should have DCPR in less than a year) plus you will have a RC by then.
It doesn't mean it will work. Desperate times call for desperate measures.

[Orsolya]

I'm suggesting take a chance. It doesn't mean it will work. Desperate times call for desperate measures.

Thank you, but why after 1 year? Why not 5 years? And would I apply as an extended family member?

[noajthan]

Thank you, but why after 1 year? Why not 5 years? And would I apply as an extended family member?

Because in 5 years there will be no PR if UK really has left EU.
So you haven't got enough time to acquire PR in the normal way (that is after 5 years).

I'm suggesting take a risk and apply for confirmation in around a year on the basis of being an EFM with sponsorship by your partner/sponsor over past years (plus you will have had a RC for a year).
If that's not good enough you will lose £65. If it works you get the comfort of confirmation of PR while UK is still in EU.

If it gets to the time of UK's final exit from EU (and you still haven't got PR at that time) then you will have to rely on whatever transitional arrangement UK government chooses to put in place (if any) for you (& thousands of others).

[Orsolya]

Thank you. I understand.

So thinking about marriage. It would not be a good choice to get married at any time, because if we married, I will need 5 years marriage to be able to apply for PRC (FM)? Or it would be same and I could try to apply for PRC(FM) after 1 year too?

[noajthan]

Thank you. I understand.

So thinking about marriage. It would not be a good choice to get married at any time, because if we married, I will need 5 years marriage to be able to apply for PRC (FM)? Or it would be same and I could try to apply for PRC(FM) after 1 year too?

Marriage is fine too.
As the guidance clearly says (as quoted above), you can mix and match time as an EFM and time as a FM if you wish to.
As soon as you are married you can apply for a RC as a spouse. No doubt about that.

But if you want to mix the two statuses the HO caseworker will also be looking for an earlier EFM RC too.
Suggest get that one then get married. (Marriage plans take time anyway).
Then get the FM RC.

I'm not sure if you have to hold the EFM RC for all the years you were an EFM or if you just have to have had an EFM RC issued to you (even for a short time).
That's why I suggested applying for DCPR in about year to see what happens. It's worth a shot in the circumstances.

[Orsolya]

Thank you so much!
You are really really helpful.

[Orsolya]

Hi!

I have more questions.

- Can you help me where I can find that a family member (wife) need to be married for 5 years to be able to apply for a PRC (FM)? Application guidance does not say that a family member needs to be married 5 years to be able to apply for PRC(FM). Only the family member needs to be living in the UK for 5 years.

I have found that a family member needs to live in the UK for 5 years, but I did not find that this 5 years need to be as a family member.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... s_v3_0.pdf
"If they have lived in the UK for a continuous period of 5years, direct family members of an EEA national sponsor are allowed to live in the UK on a permanent basis."

If we marry now, I will be a family member. I have lived here more than 5 years, so it looks we have everything what we need, don't we?

[noajthan]

Hi!

I have more questions.

- Can you help me where I can find that a family member (wife) need to be married for 5 years to be able to apply for a PRC (FM)? Application guidance does not say that a family member needs to be married 5 years to be able to apply for PRC(FM). Only the family member needs to be living in the UK for 5 years.

I have found that a family member needs to live in the UK for 5 years, but I did not find that this 5 years need to be as a family member.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... s_v3_0.pdf
"If they have lived in the UK for a continuous period of 5years, direct family members of an EEA national sponsor are allowed to live in the UK on a permanent basis."

If we marry now, I will be a family member. I have lived here more than 5 years, so it looks we have everything what we need, don't we?

The categories of family members come from EU law and Directive 2004/38/EC.

This is transposed into UK law:

Family members who come under regulation 7(1)(a),(b) and (c) of the Immigration (EEA) Regulations 2006 (‘the Regulations’) are often called ‘core ‘or ‘direct’ family members.
The following can be considered as direct family members: spouse or civil partner

You are only a direct family member (as a spouse) by becoming married.

If you are unmarried you are an extended family member and have to be in a durable relationship (unmarried partners).

Just by marrying now does not backdate your status to have been a direct family mrmber in past years.

See HO guidance on these vital matters...
FM:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... s_v3_0.pdf
& EFM:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _clean.pdf

[noajthan]

... note the following advice from the document I linked for you above:

There may be circumstances where the five year qualifying period is made up of residency as a direct family member and as an extended family member. This is acceptable provided that the total five year period in question is continuous.

The applicant must provide the required documents, or they will not be able to count that period towards the five year qualifying criteria