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ILr - Tier 1 (G) route - review

Only for queries regarding Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR). Please use the EU Settlement Scheme forum for queries about settled status under Appendix EU

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confused456
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ILr - Tier 1 (G) route - review

Post by confused456 » Sun Jul 17, 2016 3:17 am

Hi All,

I have a particular case

1. 1st Tier 1 (g) , based on overseas income in 2009 , for 3 years, came in uk for few days in 2009 , then came in 2011 , didnt get job in UK
2. 1st Extension in 2011 completely based on overseas income, 2 years extension and again went out (not worked in UK as no job in uk)
3. came back in 2012, got permanent job, tax is paid using paye and continued stay in uk , got my 2nd extension in 2013 and 3rd extension in 2015

ilr due next year in 2017
I consider myself resident from 2012
do you think i can have any issues regarding taxes or residency for ilr and any steps i can take to avoid any potential issues ?

Thanks

iberia
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Re: ILr - Tier 1 (G) route - review

Post by iberia » Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:00 pm

similar case. same question.

not sure if HO will find trouble on overseas earnings and tax issue.

Wanderer
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Re: ILr - Tier 1 (G) route - review

Post by Wanderer » Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:11 am

Was the overseas income disclosed on SA302 self-assessment and any UK tax due paid?
An chéad stad eile Stáisiún Uí Chonghaile....

tier1extend
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Re: ILr - Tier 1 (G) route - review

Post by tier1extend » Mon Jul 18, 2016 11:30 am

mine is also very similar case.

1. got T1 visa stamped in Oct 2008 for 3 years
2. Entered first time only in Sept 2011 for a week and got my visa extended using only foreign earnings
3. Was in UK again in Nov 2011 for a interview and opened a Ltd company . It didn't work out and hence returned in 3 days
4. Eventually came in UK in May 2012 and has been here since.

I know my accountant did file the company returns as dormant for nov 2011-nov 2012. But i don't think we filed SA for 2011-2012.

as per this https://www.gov.uk/tax-foreign-income/residence, we shouldn't be liable for tax on overseas income?

i guess my extra concern is opened a limited company in Nov 2011. So i should have submitted a Self assesment for 2011-2012 even though there was no trading and company returns were submitted as dormant for that year

tier1extend
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Re: ILr - Tier 1 (G) route - review

Post by tier1extend » Mon Jul 18, 2016 11:51 am

found this for residency rules pre 2013

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... /hmrc6.pdf

Wanderer
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Re: ILr - Tier 1 (G) route - review

Post by Wanderer » Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:00 pm

tier1extend wrote: as per this https://www.gov.uk/tax-foreign-income/residence, we shouldn't be liable for tax on overseas income?
Residency for tax purposes is a very tricky area. You can be tax resident in several countries at the time unless you take steps to make sure that you aren't.

The only way to be 100% safe is not to maintain any UK presence at all, which may well call into question the validity of the T1G.

If UK presence was maintained, ie home u lived in, etc - u are tax resident in UK.

In any case the SA302 requires you to record your overseas income there's no escaping that.
An chéad stad eile Stáisiún Uí Chonghaile....

tier1extend
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Re: ILr - Tier 1 (G) route - review

Post by tier1extend » Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:12 pm

agree its a tricky area. But what makes you think this (when i was less than 183 days in the UK in 2011-2012)
Wanderer wrote:In any case the SA302 requires you to record your overseas income there's no escaping that.
.

Wanderer
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Re: ILr - Tier 1 (G) route - review

Post by Wanderer » Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:15 pm

tier1extend wrote:agree its a tricky area. But what makes you think this (when i was less than 183 days in the UK in 2011-2012)
Wanderer wrote:In any case the SA302 requires you to record your overseas income there's no escaping that.
.
https://www.gov.uk/tax-foreign-income/paying-tax

and

https://www.gov.uk/tax-foreign-income/residence

The 183 day thing is not the only test, I nearly fell down this hole when I was about to work in Libya for three years literally one week before the US-led coalition 'liberated' it.
An chéad stad eile Stáisiún Uí Chonghaile....

tier1extend
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Re: ILr - Tier 1 (G) route - review

Post by tier1extend » Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:20 pm

wanderer, do you agree one doesn't need to do a self assessment if definitely not a resident?

now the big question is were we resident or not.
In 2011-2012, i was in UK for roughly 7 days- to attend an interview and do my extension. I was put up at my friends place and still working for the foreign company.

the below should help to determine in what category we fall under-
There are many different factors which will determine whether you are resident in the UK. With one exception (explained in the next paragraph), it is not
simply a question of the number of days you are physically present in the UK during a tax year, although this is an important consideration.
The only occasion when the number of days that you are physically present in the UK will determine your residence status is when you are here for 183 days
or more during a tax year. If you are here for 183 days or more in a tax year, you are resident in the UK. There are no exceptions to this.
You can also be resident in the UK if you are present here for fewer than 183 days in a tax year. This will depend on how often and how long you are
here, the purpose and pattern of your presence and your connections to the UK. These might include the location of your family, your property, your
work life and your social connections.

The following are examples, but they are not a complete list. These and any other relevant factors must all be considered together to give a
complete picture.
• Family ties include having a spouse, civil partner, children or other family members you are close to, in the UK.
• Social ties include membership of clubs and societies and events that you regularly attend or host. It also includes any regular recreational engagement,
such as returning each year for an annual sporting season.
• Business ties include owning or being a director of a business based in the UK, or having employment, including self­employment, in the UK. Regular employment duties in the UK are a tie and you need to consider the extent,frequency and nature of those duties. It does not matter if the duties
themselves are not taxed, for example because of a DTA.
• Property ties include a house or apartment that you own or lease, or property held primarily for investment but that also provides you with accommodation when you are in the UK. A house or apartment provided for your use for the duration of your time in the UK as part of an employment package is
‘available accommodation’ and is a tie to the UK.
• If you think that you may just be visiting the UK then part 7 will help you to consider the pattern of your visits, but you must also consider the purpose of
those visits. For instance, a short term one­off employment assignment to complete a project for a foreign employer might not in itself make you
resident. But if you repeatedly come to the UK for regular business meetings then your visits have a non­temporary purpose. You need to look at the
frequency of those visits alongside your other ties to the UK.
If the nature and degree of your ties to the UK show that it is usual for you to live in the UK, you are resident in the UK. It does not matter whether you live
here for employment, leisure, or just because you like being in the UK.
If you have previously been resident in the UK then to become not resident you must leave the UK, either by making a definite break or by taking up full­time
work abroad – see part 8.

iberia
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Re: ILr - Tier 1 (G) route - review

Post by iberia » Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:53 pm

Very good post and discussion as well as information share. I think most people with second extension to apply for ILR have similar issue on overseas earnings. otherwise, no need to apply for second extension for being outsde of UK for 180 days where overseas earnings were generated.

I think most people with similar issue are not aware of overseas earnings of tax issue as those overseas earnings were already taxed overseas. And by the time we came back to UK to re-start the five year ILR journey, we just think overseas earnings were just overseas earnings for life suvival and visa extension, without any awareness of declaring them to HMRC for tax.

The point is by the time of the end of the five year journey towards ILR, we just find out that overseas earnings could become an issue and we need to look at it for remedy.

If the overseas earnings are subject to HMRC at the beginning of the five year journey, does it mean we need to make tax amendment to pay it back?

How do they count the UK residence period? On the day back to UK with intension towards the 5 year journey? Of couse, those with a long absence for 1 year or 2 years or above are obvious not regarded UK resence. For those who came back to UK from day one as the clock of residence, what about the earnings of overseas of the same month? eg. if I finished my overseas work in January and came back to UK in early January, whilst the overseas salary was still paid end of Jan which is common practice, does that part of earnings regarded to be declare to HMRC?

iberia
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Re: ILr - Tier 1 (G) route - review

Post by iberia » Tue Jul 19, 2016 11:04 pm

Wanderer wrote:
tier1extend wrote: as per this https://www.gov.uk/tax-foreign-income/residence, we shouldn't be liable for tax on overseas income?
Residency for tax purposes is a very tricky area. You can be tax resident in several countries at the time unless you take steps to make sure that you aren't.

The only way to be 100% safe is not to maintain any UK presence at all, which may well call into question the validity of the T1G.

If UK presence was maintained, ie home u lived in, etc - u are tax resident in UK.

In any case the SA302 requires you to record your overseas income there's no escaping that.
Good point. If no UK presence is maintained, what about the validity of T1 G visa and extension?
As the post mentioned, first entry to UK for a short stay, and then left UK for 1 or 2 years, and then back to UK to re-start the 5 year journey. UK residence is counted on the day of return after long absence? then what about the validity of T1G, is we do not have UK presence or residence, will T1G extension which was based on overseas earnings with long absence be regarded valid?

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