Dutch Wife and Aust National. Wanting to Work in UK.

[Benny007]

Hi,

I'm sorry if this has been answered before but I need to know what needs to be done upfront if my Dutch wife and I (Australian citizen with Dutch permanent residence status) want to move to the UK to live and work.

I get ambiguous information from UKBA website on this. So please correct me if any of my assumptions are incorrect.

As far as I know, my Dutch wife is perfectly free to move to UK tomorrow and start working (provided she can prove she is a citizen of the EEA - passport is sufficient). She does not need to apply to any permit or residence card up front. However it is advised to do so (to prove right of abode) after she has moved there.

For me, as her spouse (I am Australian, but have Permanent Residence status in Netherlands), I am entitled to move there also. But here are my questions:
1. Must I first apply for a permit to move to the UK before I move with my wife?
2. If not, then am I able to just move with her to UK without any permit and start working?
3. I know I need to apply for a registration certificate or residence card as family member of EEA national - but can that be done after I move there?

Any help on this issue would be greatly appreciated - thanks so much!
Ben

[noajthan]

Hi,

...

For me, as her spouse (I am Australian, but have Permanent Residence status in Netherlands), I am entitled to move there also. But here are my questions:
1. Must I first apply for a permit to move to the UK before I move with my wife?
2. If not, then am I able to just move with her to UK without any permit and start working?
3. I know I need to apply for a registration certificate or residence card as family member of EEA national - but can that be done after I move there?

Any help on this issue would be greatly appreciated - thanks so much!
Ben

1) No - as you are visafree.
And you may be able to use your NL PR to enter if its an Article 10/20 card.(I forget which)

2) In theory yes.
Whether you can persuade a time-pressed, ill-informed or inexperienced employer of your right to work in UK is another matter.
That is where RC comes in.

3) You don't need to - RC is optional for a FM. With proviso as per #2
You cannot apply for a UK RC before you enter UK as you are not a FM of qualified person in UK until you are in UK.

PS After 2 years absence from NL your NL PR will become null and void. So you may wish to get your NL citizenship in the bag first.
I leave the question of whether NL recognises dual citizenship as an exercise for the reader.

[Benny007]

Hi Noajthan
Thank you so much for your quick response - I really appreciate it.
I had to laugh at your response to question 2
I'm not sure what and Article 10/20 card is though - any help there?

Yes I am actually applying for Dutch passport - so thankfully this will happen and this all becomes moot point; but the process for changing status from PR to Citizenship takes up to 12 months here

[Wanderer]

I leave the question of whether NL recognises dual citizenship as an exercise for the reader.

NL doesn't recognise dual citizenships (normally - there are some tenuous exceptions) but it's not all bad news, the Dutch play cricket so the OP can still support his new nation's Cricket team....

Having said that, not one of my Indian-born friends who have BC (and thereby lost Indian citizenship) support the England Cricket team over India. Funny that. Should be the law in my book!

[Petaltop]

but the process for changing status from PR to Citizenship takes up to 12 months here

This is/was (? subject to Brexit) the same in the UK.

[Benny007]

I leave the question of whether NL recognises dual citizenship as an exercise for the reader.

NL doesn't recognise dual citizenships (normally - there are some tenuous exceptions) but it's not all bad news, the Dutch play cricket so the OP can still support his new nation's Cricket team....

Having said that, not one of my Indian-born friends who have BC (and thereby lost Indian citizenship) support the England Cricket team over India. Funny that. Should be the law in my book!

Hi @Wanderer

yes i keep my Aussie passport by virtue of marriage to Dutch national when I apply for Dutch citizenship.

[Benny007]

but the process for changing status from PR to Citizenship takes up to 12 months here

This is/was (? subject to Brexit) the same in the UK.

Hi @ Petaltop
UK hasnt triggered their Article 50 rights yet and won't until next year. So the status quo will remain in place. I guess now's the best time to get there before they start sandbagging all ports and Euro tunnel to protect themselves from the European hordes lol

[noajthan]

Hi Noajthan
Thank you so much for your quick response - I really appreciate it.
I had to laugh at your response to question 2
I'm not sure what and Article 10/20 card is though - any help there?

Yes I am actually applying for Dutch passport - so thankfully this will happen and this all becomes moot point; but the process for changing status from PR to Citizenship takes up to 12 months here

I commend your foresight in securing a foothold in Europe. Suggest be sure coming to UK doesn't break any NL absence rules for their citizenship.

Seriously, convincing a UK employer its legal to employ you can be a challenge. They face massive fines if they get it wrong so naturally tend to err on the side of caution.

Check the wording on your PR card...

An Article 10 residence card should feature the wording “Residence Card of a Family Member of a Union Citizen”.
Another document, “Permanent Residence Card of a Family Member of a Union Citizen” issued under Article 20 of the Directive is also acceptable

Re Article 10, (my understanding is similar applies to Article 20)...

If you are a non-EEA national who holds a valid genuine residence card, issued to you as the family member of an EEA national who is exercising free movement rights in another EEA State (i.e. not your EEA relative’s Member State of nationality) under Article 10 of Directive 2004/38/EC (the ‘Free Movement Directive’), you may use this document for travel to the UK if you are accompanying your EEA national relative here, or joining your EEA national relative in the UK

An Article 10 residence card is a document which is issued under EU law (‘the Free Movement Directive’) by EEA Member States to non-EEA family members of EEA nationals who are exercising free movement rights in another Member State than that of their nationality. For example, the non-EEA spouse of a French national who is living and working in Italy may be issued with an Article 10 residence card by the Italian authorities

Ref https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... dence-card

[Wanderer]

I leave the question of whether NL recognises dual citizenship as an exercise for the reader.

NL doesn't recognise dual citizenships (normally - there are some tenuous exceptions) but it's not all bad news, the Dutch play cricket so the OP can still support his new nation's Cricket team....

Having said that, not one of my Indian-born friends who have BC (and thereby lost Indian citizenship) support the England Cricket team over India. Funny that. Should be the law in my book!

Hi @Wanderer

yes i keep my Aussie passport by virtue of marriage to Dutch national when I apply for Dutch citizenship.

Yeah this:

Persons who become naturalised Dutch subjects if they obtain an exemption from the requirement to renounce their foreign citizenship, such as those who are married to Dutch subjects.

Dunno how hard the exemption is to obtain, but I know my Dutch friend was unable to get one for his Ukrainian wife (Ukraine doesn't allow dual citizenship either, but they just toally ignore that) even when she became Russian (she's from Crimea); Russia does allow dual citizenship. He says it's a hot topic in NL at the moment. well six months ago actually, where does time go, not spoke to him since then...

How complicated is that!??

[Richard W]

1. Must I first apply for a permit to move to the UK before I move with my wife?
2. If not, then am I able to just move with her to UK without any permit and start working?

You don't need a permit to get to the UK border. However, I suspect you do not have an EEA permanent residence card.

Merely as an Australian, you cannot enter the UK for settlement or to work without a visa. Instead, you should produce evidence to the immigration Officer that you are married to your wife, and that she is Dutch. You should then receive an EEA Regulations stamp in your passport, which in principle provides employers with evidence that you are allowed to work for the first 6 months in the UK. (The EEA Regulations would allow you to work for the first 3 months if you arrived together.)

I am not sure if you can get an EEA Regulations stamp on the basis of an EEA permanent residence card. After all, it does not provide evidence that at some recent time you were the family member of an EEA citizen. Admission on the basis of such a card derives from common sense rather than the EEA Regulations. Moreover, Regulation 11(3) prohibits the stamping of the passport of someone holding an EEA (but not Swiss) non-permanent residence card, but I believe it does happen.

For practical reasons, you should still apply for a residence card (RC) once your wife is working. You should get a 'positive' Certificate of Application (CoA), i.e. one confirming your right to work, which you show to your employer. You then show the residence card to your employer when you ultimately get it; your EEA Regulations stamp will probably have expired by then. Once the UK has left the EU, the RC may even be a more useful document in the UK than than your Dutch passport!

[noajthan]

Hi,

I'm sorry if this has been answered before but I need to know what needs to be done upfront if my Dutch wife and I (Australian citizen with Dutch permanent residence).Ben

I would not doubt an Australian gentleman if he says he has PR - have you seen Crocodile Dundee?!

[Richard W]

I would not doubt an Australian gentleman if he says he has PR - have you seen Crocodile Dundee?!

@Noajthan:
Well, I wouldn't trust Wally, but that's not the issue.

@Everyone:
There are three types of permanent residence in a Dutch context - 'long term permanent residence', 'Dutch permanent residence' and 'European permanent residence'. I believe they relate to Directive 2003/109/EC (not applicable to the UK, Ireland or Denmark), Dutch domestic law, and Directive 2004/38/EC respectively, but I'm not sure that terminology in English is consistent. As Mrs Benny007 is Dutch, I think Benny007 is unlikely to have 2004/38/EC permanent residence - but it's possible. This is why Noajthan's recommendation to check the wording of the PR card may be useful.