'Rights' of child being born either in UK or South Africa

[uk_mkh]

My wife and I are both naturalized British Citizens with dual nationality of South Africa.

We had lived in the UK for 10 year and recently I got a promotion/transfer with my Company and have been living in SA again for the 6 months. My wife is now pregnant and wishes for our child to be born in England rather than SA as she feels a child born in SA will not have the same rights as a child born in England.

I feel that my Company is providing us with really great medical cover here in SA (Private Medical vs NHS - WOW ) so the baby should be born here and that we can then apply for a passport for the child as we have both been naturalized. She feels that the child, which should get Right of Abode in the UK, will not have the same other rights as a child born in the UK e.g. access to state benefits,etc.

In my basic research, the one right the child will not be able to pass to it's children (we don't know if boy or girl yet ) is that of UK citizenship. However, as the child will grow up in the UK, most likely it's spouse will be British and their children will most likely be born in the UK so would get their rights anyway.

FWIW, my placement here ends in 18 months and we will then move back to the UK.

I would appreciate if anybody could enlighten me on what various privileges a child born in the UK would have over one born in SA

[ohara]

If the child is born in SA it will automatically be a British citizen by descent and will have exactly the same rights as a British child born in the UK. The only difference is that if the child then has their own children outside the UK, they will not automatically be British.

You should check out the SA nationality laws especially regarding multiple citizenship though. I saw in another thread that it is illegal for a South African citizen to exit the country with a foreign passport. You may want to look into that.

[CR001]

You should check out the SA nationality laws especially regarding multiple citizenship though. I saw in another thread that it is illegal for a South African citizen to exit the country with a foreign passport. You may want to look into that.

A child born to parents who are both British and South African, can hold both nationalities without any issues. The permission to attain another nationality as a South African (and the relevant laws) is ONLY relevant to adults and not to children.

The child will need a passport in both nationalities. Exit and enter South Africa on a SA passport and not a British one as yes, a South African citizen must use their SA passport.

[uk_mkh]

Thanks folks.

So what I had found was basically correct. I don't know who has been giving her the FUD that the child will not be able to get any 'benefits' by lieu of not physically being born in the UK. Not that we have thankfully ever needed to make use or or hope to in the future (except NHS occasionally) ..

Regarding SA/UK citizenship, we do enter/leave SA on our SA passport and the UK (and nearly everywhere else) on the UK passport. The child will have two passports regardless of where it is born (just to be safe).

Thanks again,

[CR001]

So what I had found was basically correct. I don't know who has been giving her the FUD that the child will not be able to get any 'benefits' by lieu of not physically being born in the UK. Not that we have thankfully ever needed to make use or or hope to in the future (except NHS occasionally) ..
The only drawback is that there is a 3 month exclusive of benefits/NHS use as a British citizen that has been living abroad and this is relevant to whether born in the UK or not.

Regarding SA/UK citizenship, we do enter/leave SA on our SA passport and the UK (and nearly everywhere else) on the UK passport. The child will have two passports regardless of where it is born (just to be safe). Most sensible thing, child can have both without any problems. My daughter has both and has not had any issues traveling in and out of Joburg in the same way you do.

[Richard W]

So what I had found was basically correct. I don't know who has been giving her the FUD that the child will not be able to get any 'benefits' by lieu of not physically being born in the UK. Not that we have thankfully ever needed to make use or or hope to in the future (except NHS occasionally) ..
The only drawback is that there is a 3 month exclusive of benefits/NHS use as a British citizen that has been living abroad and this is relevant to whether born in the UK or not.

I think that bridge will have to be crossed anyway - wouldn't the child move to South Africa if born in the UK?

Doesn't the 3 month rule only apply if it is not clear whether the stay in the UK is 'permanent'? If uk_mkh returned to the UK to take up 'permanent' employment there, I believe the family would be 'ordinarily resident' by the time they reached British soil.

[CR001]

The 3 month rule (or habitual resident test) applies to ALL BC's returning after being abroad for more than a few months. For example, in 2014 my daughter (dual BC & SA) was in South Africa for 5.5 months. She returned to the UK and waiting 1 month and was looking for a job. Didn't find one and put in a claim for Jobseekers and was told she doesn't qualify due to her absence and has to wait till she has been resident again for 3 months before she will qualify. She had been resident in the UK for 5 years before her 5.5 month trip.

[Richard W]

Some sources say that there is a difference between the 'habitually resident' (relevant for benefits) and 'ordinarily resident' (relevant for NHS charges).

[CR001]

If they live in SA and then move to the UK, they are not 'ordinarily resident' immediately are they and they won't necessarily be denied NHS (as it stands now but obvs there is the 'health tourism' aspect too and for you information, the private healthcare in SA is far more superior than the NHS).

I was pointing out a drawback for the child (or when adult), who has not been born as yet, so lets stick to the topic and question the poster has asked shall we.

[uk_mkh]

Wow thanks guys .. that was enlightening and informative to regarding habitual residency, etc especially when we return permanently after my placement is up.

If I understand correctly, for the short term it means that if my wife pushed (excuse the pun ) to have the Baby in the UK, she would have to be there for at least three months before the birth to ensure she would be able to get NHS 'benefit' ... or else it would count as health tourism of sorts and she would be obligated to pay for the NHS costs towards the birth - this alone would make it clearer to me that this child should be born in SA utilising the private medical care that we are currently paying for.

[CR001]

She would likely not have an issue using the NHS if she is resident (i.e. not on holiday) and they might ask for proof i.e. bills, bank statements etc. She will also need to be registered with a GP obviously and they will ask for proof of residence in the form of bank statements and utility bills (recent).

If the child is born in SA, any children (your grand children) born outside the UK will not be British automatically. But if born in the UK (your grand children that is), they will be British automatically. This is probably the main difference. Also, getting a passport for the child is easier to do in the UK (1 week) than from SA as all passports are processed in the UK regardless of where you apply and from SA it can take many months.

If I was having a baby, I would have it in SA with the private healthcare there. I had my daughter in one of the government hospitals in the south of Joburg in 1995 and had excellent care (aware things are more dire now though).

[uk_mkh]

Hello all,

Resurrecting an old thread.

I am now the proud but very tired father of a cute baby boy (definitely inherited the good looks from his mom) ... I want to apply for his UK Citizenship while I am still living in South Africa.

Am I correct in assuming that, that I would need to complete and submit the MN1 form as there is no online process? I would then need to submit the application with all the supporting paperwork to the address:-

Department 1
UKVI
The Capital
New Hall Place
Liverpool
L3 9PP

Thanks in advance,
MKH

[CR001]

There is no need to register the child on MN1. The child is automatically British. You can apply directly for a passport (also processed in the UK).

[ohara]

Did you read any of the other posts in this thread???

If the child is born in SA it will automatically be a British citizen by descent and will have exactly the same rights as a British child born in the UK.

[uk_mkh]

Did you read any of the other posts in this thread???

If the child is born in SA it will automatically be a British citizen by descent and will have exactly the same rights as a British child born in the UK.

Thank you @CR001

@ohara: Apologies. I read many many threads and in reading lots of folks' questions and responses (especially with children born abroad) - I got really confused. When I first started this thread (after also reading up as much as I could beforehand), I saved the links to get a passport online as that is as simple and easy as I thought it should be. A few months later with many sleepness nights - brain drain Thank you again.

This forum with all it's valuable experts such as yourselves make our process navigating the UK Visa/passport guantlet much more easier.