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To have any chance whatsoever your self employment really needs to be shown to be genuine & effective & not marginal & supplementary (to some other activity).MagicByNature wrote:Hi everybody.
I recently discovered that my application for naturalisation won't be as straightforward as I expected due to the infamous comprehensive health insurance. I am a EU citizen, and been living in UK since 2004 (with a small gap). Here's my timeline:
...
At no point in those 11 years I have had any comprehensive health insurance, other than being covered by the NHS. However, I have been self-employed since 2007. My income through self-employment has been zero or negligible, but I have submitted a tax return for it every year. Would this be enough for me not to require the extra health insurance?
Also, how problematic would my year of self-sufficiency be? Is relying on bank overdrafts and housing benefit acceptable?
Thanks. I just read up on the self-employment situation and mine was clearly too marginal to count. I did not have a RC issued.noajthan wrote:To have any chance whatsoever your self employment really needs to be shown to be genuine & effective & not marginal & supplementary (to some other activity).
Your documentary supporting evidence for all this needs to be unimpeachable.
If 'self-sufficient', as well as the need for CSI, you need to show you have not been a burden to the state.
So fewer benefits the better in that period really.
You can get into the mind of the HO caseworker assessing your case here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _clean.pdf
Your PR clock clearly only started in 2007 (due to prior gap year).
Did you have a foreign-issued EHIC in those carefree student year/s?
And/or did you have a RC issued to you as a student in or before 2011?
It's a longshot but those documents may excuse you from need for CSI (as a student not as self-sufficient) due to a transitional arrangement.
Otherwise, if no CSI when 'self-sufficient' you will have stopped your PR clock dead.
It will have restarted in 2012 and needs to run to 2017 for you to acquire PR.
(That is if the self-employment since 2007 does not stand up for a suitable 5-year period)..
Final longshot, do you have a family member (parent) who has been a qualified person exercising treaty rights continuously in UK in some 5-year period since 2007?
If so you may have acquired PR as a dependent ie a direct family member.
How old are you?
Your best bet is probably 2007 - 2012. then.MagicByNature wrote:...
Thanks. I just read up on the self-employment situation and mine was clearly too marginal to count. I did not have a RC issued.
However, I discovered that I was probably still covered by the Polish health service until late 2012. I have never had an EHIC card issued in Poland (because what was the point? From what I have seen, the requirement to have CSI other than NHS cover was only established in 2011), but if I get a letter from the Polish NHS confirming my entitlement, would that be sufficient?
In that case, I would have exercised treaty rights for 5 years between April 2007 and 2012, and presumably if a PR is issued, I'd be able to apply for naturalisation straight away?
Another question is about my PhD. It is fully funded, and I get a salary every month. I get payslips, with my tax code on them, but the salary itself is untaxed. Could that potentially be treated as employment?
Sadly, parent or sponsor wouldn't work. I am currently trying to confirm if I've been covered by the Polish health service.noajthan wrote:Your best bet is probably 2007 - 2012. then.
Yes if you acquired PR by 2012 you could shoot for privilege of citizenship as soon as all other requirements for naturalisation have been/can be met;
(including the elusive confirmation of PR card).
No need to wait another 12 months with PR in your case.
Ofcourse this depends on assembling a bunch of unimpeachable supporting documentary evidence - including some sort of letter from the Polish health authorities.
(An official translation will be needed if you can't persuade them to entertain your request in English).
As to your PhD being classed as work, & so you as a worker, I'm not sure (I'm sure it feels like work though).
Suggest make a play for the health letter.
Collate rest of your evidence - have a few dry runs filling in the form & see how it all stands up.
What about parent as sponsor? Could that fly?
You are allowed time out for good behaviour!MagicByNature wrote:...
Sadly, parent or sponsor wouldn't work. I am currently trying to confirm if I've been covered by the Polish health service.
I just realised another potential problem though - between early July 2010 and late September 2010 I was on holiday abroad - during time between finishing my undergrad and starting my masters. This is almost 3 months abroad - although I was already accepted for my masters course when I went on holiday, so it was certain that I'm coming back. Is it likely to be a problem?
1) No accounting if you were abroad.MagicByNature wrote:Hello everyone.
I posted a few months ago asking for advice. I am almost ready to apply for PR as a EEA citizen, but have a few more questions.
1. I am aware that absences shorter than 6 months during the 5 years don't really affect the application. However, do I have to account for the time I am absent? For example, I finished my undergrad in June 2010, and started another course in September 2010. Between this time, I was away from UK and did not have any accommodation during that time. Could absences like that cause any problems?
2. I did my A-levels in UK between 9/2004 and 7/2006. Then I took a gap year, during which I was mostly back in Poland. I then came back to UK in 4/2007 for a job and then uni. I assumed that the gap year will reset the timer, and I will have to start the 5 year period from 2007. However, I realised that I was actually in UK for a few days in 12/2006 and 1/2007 for university interviews and exam resits. That sounds like a longshot, but could I have my 5 year period start in 2004 in that case? This would make my life a bit easier.
3. After I finished my masters course, I looked for a job/PhD for some time and got into a bit of a debt. For some time, I relied on overdrafts, my limited savings and help from my family. I also got some housing benefit, although that was already granted when I had my PhD secured. Again, could that in any way harm my claim as self-sufficient/job-seeker?
4. While I discovered that I was not covered by my home country's health service while in UK, I also remembered that I had a comprehensive, international travel insurance linked to my Polish debit card (I assume that a policy that covers 60,000 euros of potential medical costs is comprehensive enough for the purpuse of the application). However, there might have been some short periods (eg. when my card expired, and a new one was still being issued) when I was not technically covered - although I still need to confirm that. Is this likely to be a problem, or might that be overlooked?
Is that really just travelling and being on holiday though? I have evidence that I applied to universities in UK in 10/2006, and was attending a university interview and exam re-sits later. It is clear that I was planning on staying in UK, and my continuous absence in UK never reached 6 months.2) A one-off absence of up to one year for an exceptional reason can be justified eg study leave, pregnancy etc.
Or unlimited military service. (Or, possibly, a combination of these factors).
Just travelling and being on holiday will not cut it and will have reset your PR clock.
It all depends on the reason and the evidence, which needs to be rock-solid. Eg Erasmus documentation, letter from university & etc.
I can indeed provide evidence of jobseeking. I have not registered as a jobseeker - firstly, I was mostly applying for PhDs, which is not exactly what Jobcentres are designed for, and secondly I was not eligible for any Jobseeker's Allowance at that point. Anyway, I should have CSI for that time and could do it as self-sufficient. My question still remains - am I self-sufficient if I rely on my family and overdrafts to support myself?3) That is not really jobseeking, sounds more like selfsufficient qualified person status.
If you were a jobseeker you need evidence of registration as a jobseeker and jobseeking.
For selfsufficiency to fly you need to have had CSI in place.
Yes, I have read the second article before, and I interpreted it that a UK-issued travel insurance is not acceptable (which makes sense). My insurance was provided by an insurance company in Poland, covered me in UK (and other countries), and in my view, satisfies this condition: "...cover the costs of the majority of medical treatment they may receive in the UK... if the policy covers the applicant for medical treatment in the majority of circumstances you can accept it." Sadly, never had EHIC, because really - what was the point when NHS covered me anyway?4) Travel insurance or those 'repayment type' or cash-back schemes may not be enough.
Dig into that vital question here:
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... issued.pdf
& here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _clean.pdf
- ref page 41
If you had a foreign EHIC or a RC issued to you as a student in/before 2011 that would fit the bill too.
If under 6 months (in a 12-month period) the absence from UK is not an issue and continuity of residence is maintained.MagicByNature wrote:Is that really just travelling and being on holiday though? I have evidence that I applied to universities in UK in 10/2006, and was attending a university interview and exam re-sits later. It is clear that I was planning on staying in UK, and my continuous absence in UK never reached 6 months.2) A one-off absence of up to one year for an exceptional reason can be justified eg study leave, pregnancy etc.
Or unlimited military service. (Or, possibly, a combination of these factors).
Just travelling and being on holiday will not cut it and will have reset your PR clock.
It all depends on the reason and the evidence, which needs to be rock-solid. Eg Erasmus documentation, letter from university & etc.
As I said though, this point is not critical, as I'm absolutely okay with the residence to start in 2007.
I can indeed provide evidence of jobseeking. I have not registered as a jobseeker - firstly, I was mostly applying for PhDs, which is not exactly what Jobcentres are designed for, and secondly I was not eligible for any Jobseeker's Allowance at that point. Anyway, I should have CSI for that time and could do it as self-sufficient. My question still remains - am I self-sufficient if I rely on my family and overdrafts to support myself?3) That is not really jobseeking, sounds more like selfsufficient qualified person status.
If you were a jobseeker you need evidence of registration as a jobseeker and jobseeking.
For selfsufficiency to fly you need to have had CSI in place.
Yes, I have read the second article before, and I interpreted it that a UK-issued travel insurance is not acceptable (which makes sense). My insurance was provided by an insurance company in Poland, covered me in UK (and other countries), and in my view, satisfies this condition: "...cover the costs of the majority of medical treatment they may receive in the UK... if the policy covers the applicant for medical treatment in the majority of circumstances you can accept it." Sadly, never had EHIC, because really - what was the point when NHS covered me anyway?4) Travel insurance or those 'repayment type' or cash-back schemes may not be enough.
Dig into that vital question here:
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... issued.pdf
& here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _clean.pdf
- ref page 41
If you had a foreign EHIC or a RC issued to you as a student in/before 2011 that would fit the bill too.
At least 2007 up to current date.MagicByNature wrote:Quick question:
I will be applying for a PR based on my residence between 2007 and 2012. I have actualy lived in the UK since 2004, and still live here, although the 2007-2012 period is the easiest for me in terms of producing evidence. On the form, do I need to cover the entire time (together with evidence), or only those 5 years?
Thanks
Thanks.noajthan wrote:At least 2007 up to current date.MagicByNature wrote:Quick question:
I will be applying for a PR based on my residence between 2007 and 2012. I have actualy lived in the UK since 2004, and still live here, although the 2007-2012 period is the easiest for me in terms of producing evidence. On the form, do I need to cover the entire time (together with evidence), or only those 5 years?
Thanks
Caseworker will want to check you haven't lost PR in subsequent years even if you did acquire it in 2012.
Why would you assume that?MagicByNature wrote:Thanks.
I assume having no CSI after 2012 while being a student wouldn't be a problem in this case?
Yes, and I did have CSI while I was a student between 2007 and 2012. I started another course in late 2012 and I don't have CSI since then. That would mean that I am a PR since 2012, and hence there is no need for me to have a CSI now. Am I correct?noajthan wrote:Why would you assume that?MagicByNature wrote:Thanks.
I assume having no CSI after 2012 while being a student wouldn't be a problem in this case?
CSI has been mandatory (for students) since 2006. HO started enforcing this since 2011.
And now they play hard ball even on historic applications.
If you were a student and hope your carefree student years counted towards acquiring PR you need to have had CSI (or alternative) in place.
Have you/did you
If you mean do you have to exercise treaty rights after acquiring PR then no, you do not.MagicByNature wrote:Yes, and I did have CSI while I was a student between 2007 and 2012. I started another course in late 2012 and I don't have CSI since then. That would mean that I am a PR since 2012, and hence there is no need for me to have a CSI now. Am I correct?
Yes, I get that. The question is: am I a qualified person while attending a university interview? or attending exams?noajthan wrote:1) Continuity of residence is maintained if absence less than 6 months in a 12 month period (from anniversary of entry into UK). Assuming you were a qp for all periods back in UK.
I realise that, and I don't even plan to claim that my self-employment was meaningful. When the caseworker sees that my turnover never exceeded £700, it will be clear that my business is not effective whatsoever. My question regards more to the evidence they need. The guidance document suggest I send invoices, proof of advertising of my business, testimonials from clients, business bank account statements etc. Digging out some of these documents would be a bit hard for me and in some cases impossible. Since the self-employment is 'meaningless' for the immigration purposes anyway, do I really need to send this stuff, or would my tax returns be sufficient?noajthan wrote:2) On top of cleaner, purer EU law (for genuine/effective work), UK applies its somewhat controversial MET test.
A minimal income will fail such a test.
And what is my status between finding employment (or in my case, a funded PhD position) and actually starting it? It was 3 months in my case, so not insignificant. In theory, this shouldn't matter, as I am hoping for the 5 year qualifying period to end before that time, but I need to submit evidence for that nevertheless.noajthan wrote:3) A jobseeker is not a worker, its a jobseeker.
If you are a worker you are not selfsufficient, you are a worker.
Yes, I have indeed confirmed that I had indeed an insurance policy covering me between 2006 and 2012 (and earlier in fact, but the insurance provider does not store policies that far back). Whether this is accepted as a CSI proof remains an open question, although I'd say that it definitely "covers the applicant for medical treatment in the majority of circumstances", so in my view should be accepted.noajthan wrote:What happened to checking some Polish insurance policy to see if it covers you in lieu of CSI?
Then, as discussed at length previously, you may be able to make a case for being selfsufficient from 2007-2012 - when you may have acquired PR.
If not, based on previous lengthy analysis, it appears your PR clock may have started in 2012 and will have to run through to 2017.