wife and daughter settlement visa from chennai: refused

[mfm]

Hi:
applied for wife and daughter for settlement visa from chennai:
refused
the reasons:
[comments in such square brackets are my explanations]

relationship requirements:
1. you have only submitted a copy of your marriage certificate and of your daughter's birth certificate, which are not independently verifiable. as you have not submitted the original documents i am not satisfied that you are related to your sponsor as you state.

[according to the wife: vfs advised them to retain the attested, endorsed by govt secretariat and the ministry apostilled originals and submit copies. i had advised her to submit the attested originals with her application and to submit a copy with the child's application, and to carry a spare photocopy just in case]

2. you have submitted no accompanying Appendix to provide any details as to you and your sponsor's previous marriages. however, i note home office records indicate that your sponsor was previously married to an EEA national. you have submitted no divorce documents to evidence that this relationship has ceased. i am not satisfied that your marriage is valid. i therefore refuse your application under paragraph EC-P.1.1(d) of Appendix FM of the immigration rules. (E-ECP.2.7)

[the online application we were directed to fill, application for united kingdom entry clearance, category settlement, type wife, had no column for my former relationship, nor was there any hint that i had to fill out any other/additional appendix, i have the original divorce document, and i assumed that since the UK HO had been told of my previous EEA relationship (since 2002), marriage (2005), breaking down (2007) and ceasing and the decree absolute issued (2010), my indefinite issued 2012, and the UK passport issued 2015, it would be on their record, as also since it was so long ago, it was not on my mind]

3. i therefore am not satisfied your relationship with your sponsor is genuine and subsisting or that you intend to live together permanently in the UK. i therefore refuse your application under paragraph EC-P.1.1(d) of Appendix FM of the immigration rules. (E-ECP.2.6 & 2.10)

financial requirements:
4. your sponsor is not exempt from the financial requirements as defined paragraph E-ECP.3.3. i am not able to take into account any potential employment you have available to you in the UK or any offers of financial support from third parties. in order to meet the financial requirements of the rules for you and your child your sponsor needs a gross income of at least £22.400 per annum

5. the immigration rules state that if the sponsor has been employed for less than six months, they must submit payslips and banks statements covering a 12 month period with the latest date being no more than 28 days before the application date. you have submitted no accompanying appendix to state when your sponsor commenced his two jobs. however, i note that the earliest pay slips for both are less than six months before the application date. you are therefore required to submit payslips covering a 12 month period that evidence gross income of at least £22.400. the total of the payslips you have submitted is £15.888.83. this is below the required income threshold. furthermore, i note that the latest payslip from LHR airports ltd is dated 30 april. this post-dates the application date and cannot therefore be considered in an assessment of your application. your sponsor's evidenced income in the past 12 months is therefore £13.472.59.

[earnings in last 12 months:
Oxxx Sxxxx Ltd TUPE: apr '15 - mar '16: £ 13,451.25
LHR airports ltd: nov '15 - mar '16: £ 10,458.09
______________
TOTAL: £ 23,909.34

started working for Oxxx Sxxxx Ltd TUPE in feb '14 in a different role,
moving to the present job role in apr '15
the complication is that, in nov '15, though the job is same and even the location is same, just my employer changed from Oxxx Sxxxx Ltd TUPE to LHR airports ltd,
also, with Oxxx Sxxxx Ltd TUPE the pay for the whole month was paid on the 10th of the next month,
so Oxxx Sxxxx Ltd TUPE paid my last working pay for the half of the month of nov '15 worked with them in dec '15, some back arrears were paid in jan '16, and the final outstanding account closure payment was made in mar '16, and since i stopped working for Oxxx Sxxxx Ltd TUPE, they didn't give me a payslip for feb '16

additionally now, LHR airports ltd has now issued me a letter detailing my annual basic salary as £20.100, plus shift allowance of £2,401.08, which totals up to £22.501.08

also, if we can do the monthly income threshold calculation, £22400 / 12 = £1,866.67,

my pay, from LHR airports ltd, in nov '15, was £837.50, (£1,866.67 / 2 = £933.34) which was for only half the month and not including the shift allowance of £100.05, which was added in the month of dec '15, which if we take into account here, £837.50 + £100.05 = £937.55, which exceeds the monthly income threshold by £4.21

my pay, from LHR airports ltd, in dec '15, was £1975.14, which deducting the shift allowance of £100.05, which was added to the month of nov '15, £1,975.14 - £100.05 = £1,875.09 - £1,866.67, exceeds the monthly income threshold by £8.42
my pay, from LHR airports ltd, in jan '16, was £1,957.23 - £1,866.67, exceeds the monthly income threshold by £90.56
my pay, from LHR airports ltd, in feb '16, was £2,376.38 - £1,866.67, exceeds the monthly income threshold by £509.71
my pay, from LHR airports ltd, in mar '16, was £3,311.84 - £1,866.67, exceeds the monthly income threshold by £1,445.17
my pay, from LHR airports ltd, in apr '16, was £2,416.24 - £1,866.67, exceeds the monthly income threshold by £549.57, but this was disregarded as it was within 28 days of the application,

but it still shows that i have exceeded the monthly income threshold everytime, and by inference, the yearly income threshold shall be exceeded

so, between nov '15 to mar '16, in my current employment, in total, in 5 months, i'm ahead of the income threshold by about £2,049.65]

6. i also note that you have not submitted a payslip for february 2016 from Oxxx Sxxxx Ltd TUPE. furtherme, all the payslips are copies and have not been attested by your employer or accompanied by a letter of authenticity.
[sorry, original payslips present]

7. you have submitted an employment letter from lhr business support centre limited. however, it does not state your annual salary or employment type and is an unattested copy.
[now have got an updated, attested statement, from lhr business support centre limited, which states my annual salary as £22.501.08]

8. you have not submitted any employment letter from Oxxx Sxxxx Ltd TUPE.
[in the process of getting it]

you have therefore not submitted all of the specified documents as required by the immigratio rules. neither does the documentation you have submitted evidence that your sponsor meets the income threshold requirements. i therefore refuse your application under paragraph EC-P.1.1(d) of appendix FM of the immigration rules. (E-ECP.3.1)

i have therefore refused your application because i am not satisfied, on the balance of probabilities, that you meet all of the requirements of the relevant paragraph of the united kingdom immigration rules.

your right of appeal:

you are entitled to appeal against this decision under section 82(1) of the nationality immigration and asylum act 2002. if you wish to appeal you must complete the attached iaft-2 notice of appeal form. an information sheet has also been provided. should you require further advice or assistance please visit
http://www.justice.gov.uk
[no attached iaft-2, information sheet missing]

if you decide to appeal against the refusal of this application, the decision will be reviewed with your grounds of appeal and the supporting documents you provide.

you are strongly advised to complete all sections f the form and submit al relavant documents with your notice of appeal, as it may be possible to resolve the points at issue without an appeal hearing
------------x--------------x------------------------

now, can someone please suggest, if we should go for an appeal with the new additional documents
i am prepared to fill in a new VAF4A and appendix 2 form which explains exactly what i have explained here
also, just my skype call-log with the wife runs into 185 pages since apr '15,
leaving out the log from our chats on viber and whatsApp, which will be huge
i wanted to make it easier for the ECO, hence deemed it not necessary to submit such a big burden, apparently my mistake
also, i can provide a log of monetary remittance to my wife's account from UK to india as additional proof
i shall be grateful for your views please
and any additional points to support the appeal would be very welcome indeed
also, iaft-2, or iaft-6 ?? if we wish to do it in chennai, or whichever you suggest is better, chennai or UK
thanks in advance
cheers and regards

[rubyracer2]

hi @mfm, if you don't mind me asking when did you get the decision from UKVI?

[manci]

Hi:
now, can someone please suggest, if we should go for an appeal with the new additional documents

also, just my skype call-log with the wife runs into 185 pages since apr '15,
leaving out the log from our chats on viber and whatsApp, which will be huge

Your wife should re-apply, an appeal would be a waste of time as the ECO's decision was correct and will be upheld.

In the new application your wife should address all the reasons the ECO gave for the refusal.

Never mind the volume of supporting documents, the ECO must be convinced that your marriage is subsisting.

Part 8 of the application is "Additional information" - details of your divorce can be given here and should be supported by original documents.

Re. the financial requirements read:
http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov. ... iew=Binary

[mfm]

hi @mfm, if you don't mind me asking when did you get the decision from UKVI?

Hi rubyracer2:
got the decision from UKVI 09/05/16

[mfm]

Hi:
now, can someone please suggest, if we should go for an appeal with the new additional documents

also, just my skype call-log with the wife runs into 185 pages since apr '15,
leaving out the log from our chats on viber and whatsApp, which will be huge

Your wife should re-apply, an appeal would be a waste of time as the ECO's decision was correct and will be upheld.

In the new application your wife should address all the reasons the ECO gave for the refusal.

Never mind the volume of supporting documents, the ECO must be convinced that your marriage is subsisting.

Part 8 of the application is "Additional information" - details of your divorce can be given here and should be supported by original documents.

Re. the financial requirements read:
http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov. ... iew=Binary

Hi manci:
thanks

[mfm]

Hi:
now, can someone please suggest, if we should go for an appeal with the new additional documents

also, just my skype call-log with the wife runs into 185 pages since apr '15,
leaving out the log from our chats on viber and whatsApp, which will be huge

Your wife should re-apply, an appeal would be a waste of time as the ECO's decision was correct and will be upheld.

In the new application your wife should address all the reasons the ECO gave for the refusal.

Never mind the volume of supporting documents, the ECO must be convinced that your marriage is subsisting.

Part 8 of the application is "Additional information" - details of your divorce can be given here and should be supported by original documents.

Re. the financial requirements read:
http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov. ... iew=Binary

Hi manci:
when is the earliest we can reapply?
do we have to wait a certain time like maybe 12 months before the last application,
or can i re-apply next year (jan' 17)
also, in an appeal, will any fresh documents or explanatory documents be admissible ?
thanks

[i.need.help]

This is the most flawed application I've come across so far.

You can ignore this post.

[manci]

@mfm

Your wife can re-apply at any time after the refusal.

Fresh evidence wouldn't be considered at appeal.

[mfm]

This is the most flawed application I've come across so far.

You can ignore this post.

i.need.help:
thanks

[mfm]

@mfm

Your wife can re-apply at any time after the refusal.

Fresh evidence wouldn't be considered at appeal.

Hi manci:
thanks
much appreciate your help and for going through my looooong post
if any i'll be grateful
also, will this refusal have any negative impact for my wife and child in future
kind regards
mfm

[CR001]

also, will this refusal have any negative impact for my wife and child in future
kind regards
mfm

No, it should not.

[mfm]

also, will this refusal have any negative impact for my wife and child in future
kind regards
mfm

No, it should not.

Hi CR001:
much appreciated
kind regards
mfm

[rubyracer2]

hi @mfm, if you don't mind me asking when did you get the decision from UKVI?

Hi rubyracer2:
got the decision from UKVI 09/05/16

Thanks @mfm.

[swats_1315]

Hi mfm,

When did you apply ?

[mfm]

Hi mfm,

When did you apply ?

Hi swats_1315:
applied 04/05/16

[mfm]

Hi :
i've appealed
sent all the paperwork
i've reasoned all the points of refusal in a hefty cover letter
i was wondering if someone could please help me out here please
i've received a letter from the tribunal asking me to:
"supply the tribunal with complete and specific grounds of appeal, together with supporting reasons"
i desperately need some advice/guidance here please

thanks in advance everyone

[Casa]

As you've disregarded the advice to reapply it's very difficult to suggest how you can succeed with an appeal. Missing evidence which wasn't available to the Entry Clearance Officer in the original application won't be accepted now.
An appeal is likely to take 12 months or more to be heard and is highly likely to be refused in the circumstances of an application which was flawed on so many counts.

[Abc499]

i desperately need some advice/guidance here please

Reading the case, it seems the best advise was given by respected guru

Your wife should re-apply, an appeal would be a waste of time as the ECO's decision was correct and will be upheld.

In the new application your wife should address all the reasons the ECO gave for the refusal.

because the reasons of refusal was too many and was wise to re-apply sorting out the issues they mentioned.

[Casa]

Hi:
now, can someone please suggest, if we should go for an appeal with the new additional documents

also, just my skype call-log with the wife runs into 185 pages since apr '15,
leaving out the log from our chats on viber and whatsApp, which will be huge

Your wife should re-apply, an appeal would be a waste of time as the ECO's decision was correct and will be upheld.

In the new application your wife should address all the reasons the ECO gave for the refusal.

Never mind the volume of supporting documents, the ECO must be convinced that your marriage is subsisting.

Part 8 of the application is "Additional information" - details of your divorce can be given here and should be supported by original documents.

Re. the financial requirements read:
http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov. ... iew=Binary

A reminder of Manci's advice in this post.

[mfm]

Thanks casa for your advice and reminder:

i hope my 1st post can please be ignored as it was written when i was under considerable stress

the 2 main points of refusal:
1. meeting financial requirements
it should have been considered as my pay-slips from mar '16 clearly state my gross income, which exceeds the threshold,
as is clearly evidenced by the p-60

2. previous relationship:
the HO was informed of the breakdown of my previous relationship when i was applying for my ILR
strangely, the refusal letter back then was based on the reason that my relationship had broken-down !!
the HO acknowledged that my previous relationship as broken, as did the tribunal, back in 2011 !!!
the decree nisi was submitted during my ILR and AN-6 application
hence there was no suppression of any material facts

these facts have been detailed in the cover letter
which is also attached
and all the additional pieces of information submitted are in support of the evidence previously already submitted

i am grateful for helping me out back in 2011, when my case was hopeless
now, i am sure that the ECO was in error, in atleast not giving me a chance to prove myself
hence, it is my humble request to please help me hammer out this final piece of the jig-saw to:

"supply the tribunal with complete and specific grounds of appeal, together with supporting reasons"

i am grateful to all the gurus'
for their help and assistance and kindness
you have been giving hope and succor to the weak and the poor
this is a great service to humanity
we can only give you thanks and blessings from our hearts ladies and gents who help out here
my best wishes and regards to your great effort
yours
mfm

======== cover letter ====

Relationship requirements:

1. You have only submitted a copy of your marriage certificate and of your daughter's birth certificate, which are not independently verifiable. As you have not submitted the original documents I am not satisfied that you are related to your sponsor as you state.

Rejoinder:
Original marriage certificate and daughter's original birth certificate, notarised, GAD by State secretariat - Telangana and apostilled by The Ministry of External Affairs, India, now available, can be produced at the interview

2. You have submitted no accompanying Appendix to provide any details as to you and your sponsor's previous marriages. However, I note home office records indicate that your sponsor was previously married to an EEA national. You have submitted no divorce documents to evidence that this relationship has ceased. I am not satisfied that your marriage is valid. I therefore refuse your application under paragraph EC-P.1.1 (d) of Appendix FM of the immigration rules. (E-ECP.2.7)

3. I therefore am not satisfied your relationship with your sponsor is genuine and subsisting or that you intend to live together permanently in the UK. I therefore refuse your application under paragraph EC-P.1.1 (d) of Appendix FM of the immigration rules. (E-ECP.2.6 & 2.10)

Rejoinder:
• The online application we were filling, application for united kingdom entry clearance, category settlement, for my wife & child, had no column for my former relationship, nor was there any hint that I had to fill out any other/additional appendix during the filling of that application so beg apologies.
• The Decree Absolute copy attached, [Page EF-1
• The Home Office informed of my EEA relationship breaking down on [Page EG-1 to EG-11
• And both, old and new relationships mentioned in my AN-6 application form [page EG-10

Financial requirements:
4. your sponsor is not exempt from the financial requirements as defined paragraph E-ECP.3.3. I am not able to take into account any potential employment you have available to you in the UK or any offers of financial support from third parties. In order to meet the financial requirements of the rules for you and your child your sponsor needs a gross income of at least £22.400 per annum

5. The immigration rules state that if the sponsor has been employed for less than six months, they must submit payslips and banks statements covering a 12 month period with the latest date being no more than 28 days before the application date. You have submitted no accompanying appendix to state when your sponsor commenced his two jobs. However, I note that the earliest pay slips for both are less than six months before the application date. You are therefore required to submit payslips covering a 12 month period that evidence gross income of at least £22.400. The total of the payslips you have submitted is £15.888.83. This is below the required income threshold. Furthermore, I note that the latest payslip from LHR airports ltd is dated 30 April. This post-dates the application date and cannot therefore be considered in an assessment of your application. Your sponsor's evidenced income in the past 12 months is therefore £13.472.59.

Rejoinder:
Please see my P60 for the tax year Apr 2015 – Mar 2016:= £ 23725.59
*And EC-2: the letter from HMRC verifying this amount

6. I also note that you have not submitted a payslip for February 2016 from Omni Serve Ltd TUPE. Furthermore, all the payslips are copies and have not been attested by your employer or accompanied by a letter of authenticity.

7. You have submitted an employment letter from LHR Business Support Centre Limited. However, it does not state your annual salary or employment type and is an unattested copy.

8. You have not submitted any employment letter from Omni Serv Ltd TUPE.

Rejoinder:
• Received an updated, attested statement, from LHR Business Support Centre Limited,
which states my Gross Annual Salary as £ 22.501.08
• Original documents present, can be produced at the time of interview
• Please note: Omni Serv hasn’t issued a payslip for the month of Feb. '16
• Original employment letter from Omni Serv Ltd TUPE present
• Copies of pay-slips and ADP print-outs attached

Therefore the statement in the previous Cover Letter, that the income threshold is met, was made, relying on the total gross earned for the year 2015-2016 as mentioned on the payslips

*I’d please like to add that the 2 points mentioned in the HMCT letter:
1. *The appeal form is missing: it was filled online and no copy was saved or sent me by
email, hence it is not with me at the moment
2. *The payment of the appeal fees is evidenced by the documents: EQC-1 and EQD-1
======================================================================

[CR001]

For a spouse visa as a divorced spouse/person, ALL applicants are required to submit evidence of divorce, the form and guidance notes clearly state this. Regardless of whether HO was aware previously, you/spouse must produce the required documents to prove you are/were free to marry. It is not for HO to run around doing it for you.

For income, your p60 is irrelevant. HO want to see the physical payslips and corresponding bank statements. It is not for YOU to decide what is easier. You have to follow what HO says you must provide.

You definitely would have been better off re-applying with the correct documents.

ECO was correct in refusing. You didn't provide the documents, in original format, required across a number of aspect you have to prove for a spouse settlement visa.

[mfm]

Hi friends:
i've some good news i'd like to share

timeline:
30-06-13 married
28-10-13 returned to uk
24-05-14 daughter born

12th april 2016 application for uk visa submitted

april 2016 went to chennai for biometrics

8th may 2016 refused

june 2016 appeal lodged

july 2016 a fresh full set of documents with additional information sent to the tribunal for paper determination

9th dec 2016: refusal maintained by the Entry clearance manager (administrative appeal initiated by the tribunal?? , as detailed in the tribunal judgment)

3rd march 2017: heard at first tier tribunal Immigration and asylum Chamber, bradford,
appeal is allowed

17th march 2017 decicion and reasons promulgated

5th june 2017: entry cledarance granted

4th july: arrived in uk

Let me relate a beautiful fable:
A group of frogs were travelling through the forest when suddenly two of them fell into a deep pit. All the other frogs gathered around the pit. WWhen they saw how deep the pit was, they told the two frogs in the hole that, for practical purposes, they were taken for dead. The two frogs ignored the comments of their friends and kept trying to jump out of the pit with all their might. The others continued to insist that their efforts would be futile.

Finally, one of the frogs took heed of what the others were saying and gave up. collapsed and died. The other frog continued to jump as hard as he could. Once again, the crowd of frogs yelled and beckoned him to stop suffering because, simply, he was about to die; it was in vain to keep fighting. But the frog continued jumping with increasing force until finally he managed to get out of the hole. When he came out, the other frogs said to him, “we are glad that you made it out, despite what we screamed.” The frog explained to them that he was deaf, and he thought they were encouraging them to try harder and get out of the hole.

-Lessons that the text teaches us:

The original fable Hsien-Sheng Liang wrote presents two important lessons:

1. The word has power of life and death.

2. One destructive word said to someone who is down can be what ends up destroying them. Let’s be careful with what we say.

But we have found another not so explicit:

3. A special person is one who takes the time to encourage others.

-A related reference:

In NASA, in the USA, there is a beautiful poster of a bee, which reads: “Aerodynamically, the body of a bee is not made to fly; the good thing is that the bee does not know “.

How about if we were deaf to the negative things and began to encourage everyone to do something? This time in which we live would be much better for everyone…so Stay positive everyonw and keep trying. its bettwr than giving up. what more can one lose? i did and the results speak

[sndp]

Congratulations on getting your entry clearance. Did they give a reason for why they overturned their own decision?

And yes, we would have much appreciated if you had avoided the 'sting'ing fable recitation. Unlike the frogs in your story, the able moderators here always advice is people's best interest. 1000s have benefited here because of the advise given in this forum.

Hi friends:
i've some good news i'd like to share

timeline:
30-06-13 married
28-10-13 returned to uk
24-05-14 daughter born

12th april 2016 application for uk visa submitted

april 2016 went to chennai for biometrics

8th may 2016 refused

june 2016 appeal lodged

july 2016 a fresh full set of documents with additional information sent to the tribunal for paper determination

9th dec 2016: refusal maintained by the Entry clearance manager (administrative appeal initiated by the tribunal?? , as detailed in the tribunal judgment)

3rd march 2017: heard at first tier tribunal Immigration and asylum Chamber, bradford,
appeal is allowed

17th march 2017 decicion and reasons promulgated

5th june 2017: entry cledarance granted

4th july: arrived in uk

Let me relate a beautiful fable:
A group of frogs were travelling through the forest when suddenly two of them fell into a deep pit. All the other frogs gathered around the pit. WWhen they saw how deep the pit was, they told the two frogs in the hole that, for practical purposes, they were taken for dead. The two frogs ignored the comments of their friends and kept trying to jump out of the pit with all their might. The others continued to insist that their efforts would be futile.

Finally, one of the frogs took heed of what the others were saying and gave up. collapsed and died. The other frog continued to jump as hard as he could. Once again, the crowd of frogs yelled and beckoned him to stop suffering because, simply, he was about to die; it was in vain to keep fighting. But the frog continued jumping with increasing force until finally he managed to get out of the hole. When he came out, the other frogs said to him, “we are glad that you made it out, despite what we screamed.” The frog explained to them that he was deaf, and he thought they were encouraging them to try harder and get out of the hole.

-Lessons that the text teaches us:

The original fable Hsien-Sheng Liang wrote presents two important lessons:

1. The word has power of life and death.

2. One destructive word said to someone who is down can be what ends up destroying them. Let’s be careful with what we say.

But we have found another not so explicit:

3. A special person is one who takes the time to encourage others.

-A related reference:

In NASA, in the USA, there is a beautiful poster of a bee, which reads: “Aerodynamically, the body of a bee is not made to fly; the good thing is that the bee does not know “.

How about if we were deaf to the negative things and began to encourage everyone to do something? This time in which we live would be much better for everyone…so Stay positive everyonw and keep trying. its bettwr than giving up. what more can one lose? i did and the results speak