MN1 application without PR on the advise of Home Office

[kuen]

Hi all,

My husband and I, Bulgarian by birth, are now both British Citizens through naturalization. We have a 6-year-old daughter who was born in Bulgaria before neither of us, the parents, had PR or citizenship.

Thus, ultimately, we need to apply under Section 3(1) for her registration as a British Citizen on from MN1.

Our original intent was to first apply for permanent residence for her, but when speaking to the Home Office we were told that we cannot do that because our current British Citizenship supersedes the Permanent Residence status we used to hold and for that reason we have no grounds on which to apply for PR for our daughter.

We were told we should apply straight for registration as a British Citizen (they pointed out that 1.3 of the MN1 form) says "Please say IF and when the child was given ILR..." and that we fall under the IF) and providing evidence that the child has been settled in the UK for the past 5 years, that is, provide the supporting proof we would have normally provided for a PR application. They also confirmed we need to provide proof for 5 years, not 6 (5+1).

Any confirmation from the moderators or people who have been through the same exercise would be highly appreciated.

I wish you a lovely day

[noajthan]

Section 1(3) does not apply to your child (not born in UK).
Section 3(1) registration at Home Secretary's discretion applies to your foreign-born child.

Child expected to have settled status (PR for EEA nationals and family members on EU route; ILR for non-EEA on UK migration route).

How long has child been in UK?

At what date did parents naturalise?
Child may have acquired PR in a 5 year period before then (sponsored by an EEA parent/qualified person).

Otherwise unclear on way ahead.
Has child been covered by any form of health insurance whilst in UK? (but not simply 'NHS' or a UK EHIC)

[kuen]

Hi noajtham and thanks for your reply and confirming that the correct Section is 3(1)

The Child has been in the UK since March 2011, the parents acquired citizenship in March 2015 and September 2015 respectively. So, I guess I can answer that question myself, the child did not achieve 5 years of residence before the parents becoming British.

The child has been in the UK for 5,5 years now, and we can prove it, that was the line of the Home Office - to prove the PR status as a part of the citizenship application, on the basis that we now have no grounds for applying for a document certifying PR. So, the PR right is a fact, and we will prove it, but we cannot apply for the document certifying that, thus going straight through the citizenship route.

Does this make more sense?

Also, due to the age of the child (she is 6), she hasn't held any form of insurance, as none has been required. And the very Permanent Residence form does not require one for minors.

Your further thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks a lot

[noajthan]

Hi noajtham and thanks for your reply and confirming that the correct Section is 3(1)

The Child has been in the UK since March 2011, the parents acquired citizenship in March 2015 and September 2015 respectively. So, I guess I can answer that question myself, the child did not achieve 5 years of residence before the parents becoming British.

The child has been in the UK for 5,5 years now, and we can prove it, that was the line of the Home Office - to prove the PR status as a part of the citizenship application, on the basis that we now have no grounds for applying for a document certifying PR. So, the PR right is a fact, and we will prove it, but we cannot apply for the document certifying that, thus going straight through the citizenship route.

Does this make more sense?

Also, due to the age of the child (she is 6), she hasn't held any form of insurance, as none has been required. And the very Permanent Residence form does not require one for minors.

Your further thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks a lot

If child had had CSI she could be considered to be a selfsuffcient qualified person and could have acquired PR status (and an optional DCPR) in her own right.
Then no argument, she could apply to register as a citizen under 3(1).

The issue is that, as it stands, your child is not a qualified person (no CSI).

If you apply for child even without child having had PR confirmed she may be granted citizenship at the kind discretion of Home Secretary.
There have been one (or perhaps two) such cases of EEA children in similar circumstances, reported by members, and they were registered as citizens.
However there have also been refusals of non-EEA children who did not have settled status (ILR).

Your mileage may vary.
Good luck.

[kuen]

Thanks you very much for your reply.

Can I ask for clarification on one last point - do you agree that as things stand we have no grounds for applying for PR for our daughter and such application would be refused?

If yes, that would only leave us the option of discretionary registration, as advised by the Home Office, but in a sense that would help because we could explain in our application that we do it for lack of any other alternatives?

Thanks again

[noajthan]

Thanks you very much for your reply.

Can I ask for clarification on one last point - do you agree that as things stand we have no grounds for applying for PR for our daughter and such application would be refused?

If yes, that would only leave us the option of discretionary registration, as advised by the Home Office, but in a sense that would help because we could explain in our application that we do it for lack of any other alternatives?

Thanks again

Yes, your child does not appear to have acquired PR (not enough time and no CSI so not a selfsufficient person; not enough time even if sponsored by parent).

It looks like you are in hands of Home Secretary.
You can read chapter and verse about discretionary registration here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... 150402.pdf

If I can find links to those other EEA MN1 applications that succeeded (without child having PR) I will post the link/s here.

[noajthan]

Similar case:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-ro ... 1#p1366219

[kuen]

Hi noajthan,

Thanks again (for the link as well) it clarifies many things finally for me.

But one last thing I do not understand - now that we need need to apply for discretionary registration as citizen, do we need to wait till my daughter has been the the UK for at leat 6 years (based on the 5+1 formula)

Many thanks. Have a nice day!

[noajthan]

Hi noajthan,

Thanks again (for the link as well) and apologies for dwelling into the details further, but I want to make sure I understand the full picture:

1) Why do you say "not enough time" (when she has lived here more than five years)?

2) Why do you say "no CSI" if it is not required for minors?

Do you mean it in the sense that she does not have 5 years of residence here before we became British, and she cannot prove she has been self-sufficient as there is no CSI, all of that in addition to the fact that we are now British, so she cannot apply for PR with one of us as her sponsor because British Citizenship supersedes PR status and our EEA citizenship as far as the Home Office is concerned.

Thanks for your patience and your final confirmation that my understanding of the above is correct.

Have a nice day!

1) Because simply living in UK for 5 years is not enough.
Applicant needs to be a qualified person or sponsored by a Union citizen qualified person (eg parent).

Child without CSI is not a selfsufficient qualified person; (she obviously cannot be a worker etc etc).
And, under UK law, once naturalised as a BC, a person(/parent) is no longer recognised as being an EEA citizen and also was not a pure EEA citizen long enough since child arrived in UK.

2) CSI is required for anyone who wishes to be classed as a selfsufficient qualified person (regardless of age).
(This is nothing to do with accessing and using NHS etc).

Yes, that is it exactly.
Your understanding in your summary is correct and aligns with my understanding.
In a sense you, unfortunately, naturalised 'too early' and also did not include child in any DCPR applications that may have been made by parent/s.

[kuen]

Thanks again. It never occurred to me we could naturalise too early, but obviously it is possible, I can now see it.

One last thing I do not understand, please - now that we need to apply for discretionary registration as citizen, do we need to wait till my daughter has been the the UK for at least 6 years (based on the 5+1 formula, assuming they will be seeking to establish she could have potentially been granted PR and then could have held it for 1 year), or is it fully irrelevant in our case?

All the best!

[noajthan]

Thanks again. It never occurred to me we could naturalise too early, but obviously it is possible, I can now see it.

One last thing I do not understand, please - now that we need to apply for discretionary registration as citizen, do we need to wait till my daughter has been the the UK for at least 6 years (based on the 5+1 formula, assuming they will be seeking to establish she could have potentially been granted PR and then could have held it for 1 year), or is it fully irrelevant in our case?

All the best!

As you will see from a full reading of the linked HO guidance document, there is no formal timeline for residence for a child applying for discretionary registration.
(Older teenagers are expected to have a couple of years time served in UK, that is all).

You just have to show the child's future clearly lies in UK.
That is something you can work on.
Clearly having 2 settled parents who are now BCs helps the child make her case.

[kuen]

Thanks

[kuen]

Hi,

Just wanted to update you that our daughter has now been granted British citizenship under Section 3(1) with an EEA MN1 application.

To sum up the details - she did not have PR, but along with the citizenship application we also sent proof that she had resided for 5 years in the UK and that one of the parents would have been a viable PR sponsor if it wasn't for the "tiny" detail that now both parets are British.

Hope that information helps. Thanks for all your help!

[noajthan]

Hi,

Just wanted to update you that our daughter has now been granted British citizenship under Section 3(1) with an EEA MN1 application.

To sum up the details - she did not have PR, but along with the citizenship application we also sent proof that she had resided for 5 years in the UK and that one of the parents would have been a viable PR sponsor if it wasn't for the "tiny" detail that now both parets are British.

Hope that information helps. Thanks for all your help!

Congratulations.
It appears that discretion really does mean discretion if you go about it in right way.

[ohara]

Common sense prevails.