MN1 (Does parent need to send his BRP as well)?

[plabo]

Hi

I am applying for ILR and then immediately for my child's MN1 application. Do I need to send MY BRP along with the child's MN1 application? Of course the child's BRP will have to be submitted but people on the forum have been saying that the parent's BRP also has to be submitted? If yes, can someone tell me where is this mentioned on the MN1 application form?

[CR001]

Yes you have to send it as you have to prove you are settled/have ILR for MN1 for a UK born child.

Child's BRP is not needed.

[noajthan]

Depending on section of BNA that child is being registered under child's BRP may be required. For example if applying to be registered at discretion under section 3(1).

However, registering child under section 1(3) by entitlement does not require child to have ILR.

[plabo]

Dear all

Please read the following MN1 guide at this link page 28/29:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... r_2015.pdf

ALL APPLICATIONS FOR REGISTRATION OF A CHILD AS A BRITISH CITIZEN

***Evidence of identity

• Child’s passport or travel document OR
• Child’s birth certificate, showing the parents’ names OR
• Driving licence OR
• Bank, building society or credit card statement issued to them in the last 6 months

FOR CHILDREN LIVING IN THE UK

• Child’s full birth certificate AND
• Child’s passport of entry to the United Kingdom, and any subsequent passports AND
• Parents’ marriage certificate or civil partnership certificate.

Please note – only include children who are not already British

My question again is, where EXACTLY is it mentioned that the PARENT has to submit his BRP as well? Let me clear the case again. I am applying for ILR on the basis of 5 years Tier 2 Work Permit Set O form and my child has been born during our stay in the UK and is a Tier 2 dependant (BRP holder). We will be applying through Premium ILR and as soon as we get our approval/BRP, we intend to get the child registered as a British Citizen Section 1 (3)

As far as I have understood from the MN1 guide, the PARENT DOES NOT need to send his BRP along. Can someone clarify this again please as it seems very obvious and the replies given above are not in line with the Home office requirements.

[Abc499]

@ plabo

It seems that you do not want to provide your BRP but want to provide the ILR approval letter. Is it because you want to apply for the child registration immediately after approval and do not want to wait for BRP as child current visa expiring (might expire if you wait for BRP) ??

[Abc499]

My question again is, where EXACTLY is it mentioned that the PARENT has to submit his BRP as well? Let me clear the case again. I am applying for ILR on the basis of 5 years Tier 2 Work Permit Set O form and my child has been born during our stay in the UK and is a Tier 2 dependant (BRP holder). We will be applying through Premium ILR and as soon as we get our approval/BRP, we intend to get the child registered as a British Citizen Section 1 (3)

As far as I have understood from the MN1 guide, the PARENT DOES NOT need to send his BRP along. Can someone clarify this again please as it seems very obvious and the replies given above are not in line with the Home office requirements.

if this is the case then actually it will not make much difference even if you apply for child on the same day you received ILR.

#You are applying for child citizenship registration not for a VISA, hence I do not think there is anything like visa application section 3C cover if you apply before expiry.

#if child visa expire (before the citizenship registration approval) from the visa expiry to citizenship registration date, in theory the child is overstayer. However this will not be a issue but by applying few days early and before visa expiry or just after visa expiry will not make any difference.

[noajthan]

Dear all

Please read the following MN1 guide at this link page 28/29:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... r_2015.pdf

...

My question again is, where EXACTLY is it mentioned that the PARENT has to submit his BRP as well? Let me clear the case again. I am applying for ILR on the basis of 5 years Tier 2 Work Permit Set O form and my child has been born during our stay in the UK and is a Tier 2 dependant (BRP holder). We will be applying through Premium ILR and as soon as we get our approval/BRP, we intend to get the child registered as a British Citizen Section 1 (3)

As far as I have understood from the MN1 guide, the PARENT DOES NOT need to send his BRP along. Can someone clarify this again please as it seems very obvious and the replies given above are not in line with the Home office requirements.

The guidance is not the law. It is just guidance.

You need to prove you are settled to invoke the child's entitlement to citizenship.

To prove you are settled you need to send your BRP. Is that clear enough?

Interesting to note that some members who became settled and then became citizens and only sent their passport to support child's registration have, in some cases, been refused because they were not able to prove when they were settled (because they had returned their BRP to HO on naturalising).
Can you now see how critical BRP is?

[plabo]

I don't want to send my BRP as will be travelling immediately after getting ILR. My son will stay back with my wife in UK until his naturalisation is processed.

This is what I am asking everyone. To prove that I am settled, I can just send my ILR approval letter WITHOUT having to wait for 10 days to get the BRP. The ILR approval letter has a Home Office reference number. And to add, I have been renewing my Tier 2 visa with family for the last 5 years, each year and exactly whatever the Home Office asks for, that needs to be submitted. I have never submitted ANYTHING extra apart from what has been asked for.

Also, what reason you are pointing towards to that the BRP is critical to be submitted is for people applying for child's registration AFTER the parent is naturalised. Whereas I am ONLY applying for ILR and my approval letter will be submitted.

Nonetheless, I cannot see any need for submitting the parent's BRP as clearly it is notna requirement by thenHome Office. Yes, a copy of the BRP or approval letter of ILR showing the Home office reference number will be enough. The documents they are asking for are all listed in the MN1 guidem

Dear all

Please read the following MN1 guide at this link page 28/29:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... r_2015.pdf

...

My question again is, where EXACTLY is it mentioned that the PARENT has to submit his BRP as well? Let me clear the case again. I am applying for ILR on the basis of 5 years Tier 2 Work Permit Set O form and my child has been born during our stay in the UK and is a Tier 2 dependant (BRP holder). We will be applying through Premium ILR and as soon as we get our approval/BRP, we intend to get the child registered as a British Citizen Section 1 (3)

As far as I have understood from the MN1 guide, the PARENT DOES NOT need to send his BRP along. Can someone clarify this again please as it seems very obvious and the replies given above are not in line with the Home office requirements.

The guidance is not the law. It is just guidance.

You need to prove you are settled to invoke the child's entitlement to citizenship.

To prove you are settled you need to send your BRP. Is that clear enough?

Interesting to note that some members who became settled and then became citizens and only sent their passport to support child's registration have, in some cases, been refused because they were not able to prove when they were settled (because they had returned their BRP to HO on naturalising).
Can you now see how critical BRP is?

[plabo]

@ plabo

It seems that you do not want to provide your BRP but want to provide the ILR approval letter. Is it because you want to apply for the child registration immediately after approval and do not want to wait for BRP as child current visa expiring (might expire if you wait for BRP) ??

I don't want to send my BRP as will be travelling immediately after getting ILR and my child will stay back in the UK with his mother until his registration is done. It is not about my child's visa expiring. Again, HOME OFFICE DOES NOT need the parents BRP. A copy even of the ILR approval letter or BRP will do. They need the child's original documents.

[noajthan]

@ plabo

It seems that you do not want to provide your BRP but want to provide the ILR approval letter. Is it because you want to apply for the child registration immediately after approval and do not want to wait for BRP as child current visa expiring (might expire if you wait for BRP) ??

I don't want to send my BRP as will be travelling immediately after getting ILR and my child will stay back in the UK with his mother until his registration is done. It is not about my child's visa expiring. Again, HOME OFFICE DOES NOT need the parents BRP. A copy even of the ILR approval letter or BRP will do. They need the child's original documents.

Stop shouting, I'm not deaf.
If you wish to answer own question in your own way that's up to you.
A hard-pressed and dispassionate caseworker may not see it your way - and will certainly not be interested to convenience you or give you benefit of doubt.

As I've explained to you even parents who are British have been refused due to a missing BRP.
And you are not even settled yet.

You will need proof you are settled.
Have you even seen an ILR letter? its generic boilerplate text that says very little.

And what's the rush to register child?
If your life is so hectic keep it simple - just postpone the child's registration until travails are over.
Child is not going anywhere by sound of it.

[secret.simon]

My question again is, where EXACTLY is it mentioned that the PARENT has to submit his BRP as well?

Sometimes, things are not spelt out because they are blindlingly obvious.

You will be registering your child under Section 1(3) of the BNA 1981, which gives a child born in the UK an entitlement to be registered when any one parent of that child gets settled status (ILR/PR).

That tells you directly that
a) You need to prove that you are the parent of the child (birth certificate and marriage certificate with the other parent).
b) You need to prove that the child was born in the UK (birth certificate issued in the UK).
c) You need to prove that one of the parents listed in the birth certificate has ILR. As you have leave under the Immigration Rules, you will get settled status by a grant of ILR. That is evidenced by a BRP.

You do not need a document list to figure out which documents are needed, just an understanding of the provisions of the law.

Remember that the immigration departments and naturalisation departments in the Home office are separate and may not even have access to the same information. So, do not assume that an ILR letter is sufficient proof of having ILR. Only the BRP is conclusive proof.

The irony is that by trying to short-circuit the process, you may actually end up lengthening the process because you will be submitting proof that the caseworker would not be expecting, leading to delays and requests for follow-on information.

By all means, submit the application with just the ILR approval letter and let us know how it went. The forum only improves with individual members experiences, both positive and negative.

[noajthan]

My question again is, where EXACTLY is it mentioned that the PARENT has to submit his BRP as well?

Sometimes, things are not spelt out because they are blindlingly obvious.

You will be registering your child under Section 1(3) of the BNA 1981, which gives a child born in the UK an entitlement to be registered when any one parent of that child gets settled status (ILR/PR).

...

You do not need a document list to figure out which documents are needed, just an understanding of the provisions of the law.

Remember that the immigration departments and naturalisation departments in the Home office are separate and may not even have access to the same information. So, do not assume that an ILR letter is sufficient proof of having ILR. Only the BRP is conclusive proof.

The irony is that by trying to short-circuit the process, you may actually end up lengthening the process because you will be submitting proof that the caseworker would not be expecting, leading to delays and requests for follow-on information.

+1
Cogent and succinct.

A valuable addition to my caution that the guidance is not the law just as a map is not the territory.

[Obie]

Immigration and Nationality are not Separate. They are one body under the authority of the Secretary of State for the Home Department.

They are always in regular contact with each other.

UKVI is the department of the Home Office that deals with both immigration and nationality.

It is not necessary to send an original BRP for Registration. A copy is fine. I have never sent an original for reigstration purpose.

[noajthan]

If OP's child is prudent enough to apply via NCS (for nominal fee), the NCS operative will copy and return the relevant BRP, and send some sort of certified copy to HO.
A win-win situation.

[Obie]

Even by post, a copy of passport and BRP will suffice.

[noajthan]

Even by post, a copy of passport and BRP will suffice.

Indeed; it would be inadvisable to rely on that generic and near anonymous letter.

[secret.simon]

UKVI is the department of the Home Office that deals with both immigration and nationality.

I bow to your superior knowledge in aspects of the law, Obie, but I am not certain that the UKV&I deals with naturalisation/registration applications. Their website seems to relate solely to immigration.

While it does come under the aegis of the Home Office, based on the comments of various members on these forums, I am not sure that the EEA migration team and UK Immigration Rules teams within UKV&I talk to each other, never mind those two with the citizenship teams in the Home Office.

In any case, that is my opinion, based on comments on these forums and not based on any knowledge of the working of the Home Office.

[secret.simon]

It is not necessary to send an original BRP for Registration. A copy is fine. I have never sent an original for reigstration purpose.

Just to clarify, the OP does not wish to wait to receive the BRP. He wants to apply for the child's registration straightaway after the same-day premium service with the ILR approval letter, without even a copy of the BRP. Is that possible, Obie?

[Obie]

Ok, so just out of curiosity, which department deal with nationality and immigration?

I have always thought it was dealt with by the Home office.

[Obie]

It is not necessary to send an original BRP for Registration. A copy is fine. I have never sent an original for reigstration purpose.

Just to clarify, the OP does not wish to wait to receive the BRP. He wants to apply for the child's registration straightaway after the same-day premium service with the ILR approval letter, without even a copy of the BRP. Is that possible, Obie?

It may well be possible, as the effect date of approval of settlement application is not when the BrP is received , but when the person was approved at the PEO.

[secret.simon]

Ok, so just out of curiosity, which department deal with nationality and immigration?

I have always thought it was dealt with by the Home office.

The Department of State that deals with both immigration and naturalisation applications is the Home Office.

I was however under the impression that different teams/departments/directorates within the Home Office deal with immigration and naturalisation applications. And I was wrong. UKV&I looks after both those aspects of Home Office work.

Page 130 of the Home Office Annual Reports 2015-16 lists the business segments that I had in mind, within the Home Office. While HMPO and Immigration Enforcement are separate teams within the Home Office, there is no separate team for naturalisation applications as I thought there would be.

As an aside, UKV&I and HMPO are the only two business segments that generate revenue for the Home Office. And even then, the revenue generated by the two of them combined does not cover the costs of Immigration Enforcement (See Page 129 of the report linked to above).

[Obie]

I was however under the impression that different teams/departments/directorates within the Home Office deal with immigration and naturalisation applications. And I was wrong. UKV&I looks after both those aspects of Home Office work.

Will if i understood that to be your views, it would have been perfectly accepted, and i will not have questioned it, Department 1 is where Naturalisation and Registration are dealt with.

I was troubled, by you saying that responsibility of Naturalisation and Registration does not lie with UKVI, that is clearly wrong as far as i know.

In matter of Naturalisation and Registration, i have always forwarded Pre-action protocol or representation to UKVI litigation hub in Middlesex, so that is why i was a bit confused when you said, that UKVI are not responsible for these matters.

Anyway, the good thing about this forum is that we all learn new things everyday.

[plabo]

Thanks Obie!

I think the most reliable way out would be go through NCS for MN1 and submit an attested copy of my BRP and keep the BRP with myself as need to travel.

[Abc499]

I think the most reliable way out would be go through NCS for MN1 and submit an attested copy of my BRP and keep the BRP with myself as need to travel.

brilliant solution

[noajthan]

I think the most reliable way out would be go through NCS for MN1 and submit an attested copy of my BRP and keep the BRP with myself as need to travel.

brilliant solution

This is normal practice.