US citizen - EEA National

[NeOScout]

Hello there,

I was wondering if anybody would be able to give some advice on this quite complicated (imho) situation..

I have been in an online relationship with a us citizen (now wife) since April 2015, we chatted, skyped, called etc. whilst I was in the UK, working and studying (EEA National - Latvian, arrived in the UK August 2012). After a year we decided to meet in person. I planned a trip to my home country, Latvia, and we decided we would both meet there. So she arrived to Latvia (using the 90-day Schengen zone stamp) on June 15th.
We lived together and decided to stay together as well, we got legally Married in August 23rd, while in Latvia. ( !) She could only stay in schengen zone up to September 13th, however Latvia and the US has an agreement that a US citizen can stay for another extra 90 days, which was good news.

However, I plan on returning to the UK to work and bring my mother as well. We applied for an EEA Family permit for my spouse. Today our family permit got refused.

Actual letter:

http://s10.postimg.org/ihhk3y62x/IMAG0765.jpg
continued:
http://s10.postimg.org/nhf0bwbpl/IMAG0766.jpg


Should we make another application ( I googled quite a lot and some say that it should be a new application and not an appeal, because appeal would be if i sent enough evidence and they didnt consider it, but if I want to add evidence I should make a new application)?

Or maybe she could enter the UK under the US citizen 180-day no visa tourism and then apply for residence from within the UK?

It's just that we're kind of scheduled to depart to the UK in October 1st. And re-applying would take another 15 days if not more (to gather enough evidence and translate the marriage certificate (again)).

What do you think would be best? We do have a lot of pictures taken, at the wedding, after wedding, with my mother and friends, before the wedding also. I think we could include maybe chat logs or facebook conversations or anything of the sort? I'm inclined to re-apply and re-schedule the depart, she thinks she could enter as a tourist and then figure something out from within?

Hope I can get some advice from yous..
Thank you

[noajthan]

You are right, this is complicated.

This is bad news.
You need to shake off that marriage of convenience tag.

Turning up at UK border in these circumstances will probably not work. Spouse may well be denied entry.

You will not be able to invoke EU treaty rights for spouse if the marriage is not accepted as it means spouse has not been recognised as the family member of an EU citizen.

This is where caseworker is coming from:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... onvenience

[Noetic]

I'd reapply with the evidence they asked for eg emails and chat histories - that seems to be the kind of evidence people have submitted with these sorts of applications.

[NeOScout]

I wonder if the pictures and chat logs and everything would be able to shake off the "marriage of convenience" tag.
Frankly I don't know what else to include and surely it sounds fishy, married -> applied for EEA family permit. Not sure how to word it correctly in the application either. Whether she should state it for 6 months or indefinitely on the application as well.

Seems to me no matter what pictures even if its with my family, and phone calls from my phone to her father etc. I provide, it still will have a flag of "convenience" :S

[Noetic]

Well not submitting any evidence of your relationship prior to meeting for the very first time shortly before getting married sure isn't going to help convince the case worker...

[NeOScout]

Well some things seem to be going our way, I have found facebook chat logs from June 2015, all the way till this date, worse luck with skype tho but thats okay as it at least proves we talked and flirted and tried to plan our trip together to Latvia and what not.

However, there are some parts I would rather not share with the ECO or with anybody for that matter lol, do you think it would be okay to censor it out and/or not include some parts at all? or will they suspect something again?

I surely hope that would lift the tag tho

[Noetic]

I was just going to point out that there may be some chats you might wish not to share with the case worker...

I'm sure you don't need to provide all the naughty details but at least it will help to prove the relationship leading up to the marriage.

[NeOScout]

Hey,

another question, Should we provide any evidence of "intentions to live together"?
Also would testimonies from other people help perhaps too? :/

[noajthan]

Hey,

another question, Should we provide any evidence of "intentions to live together"?
Also would testimonies from other people help perhaps too? :/

HO tends to focus on past behaviour, track record, history.
And testimonials from relatives, associates may not carry much weight.

[extremal]

Hi,

Sorry to hear about issues you are having. Our case was quite similar:
I met my wife (she is from South America and I am EU national) in 2006, and we kept long distance relationship since then until 2010 December when she moved to Europe and we began living together.
We got married in 2011 January, then I got a job offer in the UK so we started to plan to live there and applied for a family permit.
The answer which we've got was quite similar to yours - they suspected that the marriage was not genuine which was very upsetting.
So we gathered everything - photos, flight tickets, emails, Skype chats, letters, postcards and applied again (as a new application).
And it was all granted after a month of tedious wait!
After 5 years in the UK we are now applying for a PR.

I would really advice to make a new application and submit as much proof of your relationship as you can.

Good luck !

[NeOScout]

Thanks for your replies guys
Yeah we are putting everything together now, cover letter, skype screenshots, facebook messages screenshots that show the dates, photos we took together etc.
I take it thats the main thing that has to be provided, and not funds or anything. We stated in the application that my mothers buying the tickets and shes supporting her etc. Provided her bank statement and such. Hoping that main focus for them is the relationship itself and not other factors such as how is she gonna survive whatnot. I read that I shouldn't even provide financial details as its not needed but yeah.
Hoping she'll get it, otherwise we're just gonna show up at the border lol. I read that you can get a family permit at the border too. That EEA family permit application is optional?

[noajthan]

Thanks for your replies guys
Yeah we are putting everything together now, cover letter, skype screenshots, facebook messages screenshots that show the dates, photos we took together etc.
I take it thats the main thing that has to be provided, and not funds or anything. We stated in the application that my mothers buying the tickets and shes supporting her etc. Provided her bank statement and such. Hoping that main focus for them is the relationship itself and not other factors such as how is she gonna survive whatnot. I read that I shouldn't even provide financial details as its not needed but yeah.
Hoping she'll get it, otherwise we're just gonna show up at the border lol. I read that you can get a family permit at the border too. That EEA family permit application is optional?

FP is essentially a type of visa and so, in one sense, it is optional for a visafree national such as US citizen but that does not mean you will be granted entry; (US citizens are frequent overstayers in UK).

Showing up at the border you will need to present the same type and quality of evidence as for a FP.
Its a real-time application, if you will; with all the added stress, delay and questions associated with being held up at immigration control and submitting your 2kg of info on the spot.
Its not a way to sneak in unnoticed and to save all the hassle of an online application.

If you do make it into UK with spouse treated as a visitor (rather than stamped in as EEA dependent) and then have a RC application denied again for any reason (eg moc) then spouse risks being an overstayer once the visit visa expires.

If you make it in on an EEA stamp then RC is optional as long as sponsor exercises treaty rights.
In that case any subsequent denial of RC is not the end of world; it just means spouse can't confirm their status to anyone (eg employer, landlord, DVLA etc) once the FP has timed out.

[NeOScout]

Thank you, that's quite informative and helpful indeed.

Well, if she doesn't get the Family Permit through online, the only thing we can do is to bring the same documents with maybe even some more documents added and try in person, hoping for an understanding ECO? I'd be willing to go through the stress and hassle :/

But thank you regardless! I shall update this post and inform yous on our progress soon

[noajthan]

Thank you, that's quite informative and helpful indeed.

Well, if she doesn't get the Family Permit through online, the only thing we can do is to bring the same documents with maybe even some more documents added and try in person, hoping for an understanding ECO? I'd be willing to go through the stress and hassle :/

But thank you regardless! I shall update this post and inform yous on our progress soon

You can get a steer on how the guards/IO will greet and question you at the border here:
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... ndents.pdf
- section 5.5

[NeOScout]

Well.. We got our Permit!

Just so somebody who is in our situation (or similar) has a heads up:

What we included:

> Both passports
> Plane tickets that were for the upcoming flight
> Cover letter (a book, more like) 26 pages lol. We explained how our relationship started and included Pictures with dates from facebook, chat logs from facebook, screenshots etc. some other chat logs and more pictures of wedding, before wedding, with friends, family etc.
> Actual letter from me saying I wish for my wife to accompany me etc.
> Proof of my permanent address in the UK (which I doubt was needed since we both were applying from outside the UK)
> Letter from my mother together with her passport copy and a bank statement saying she is and can support her daughter in law.

And voila, received in 10 days!!

Thank you everybody for the information and help, much appreciated!!!

<3

[noajthan]

Well done, persistence pays off.

Don't take RC for granted, start generating and collating the necessary papertrail asap.

[NeOScout]

Thank you

Quick question, does she have to collect some BRP or anything of the sort?

Also, when do you think would be best time to apply for RC?

If anyone knows (not to seem information greedy lol)

[noajthan]

1) No

2) When you have adequate documentary supporting evidence.
Eg if a worker you'll need about 3 payslips plus your proofs of residence & etc.

[NeOScout]

Thank you

I think it's safe to say - case closed

Thank you all so very much for your patience and time to reply!!
It's quite amazing how people on forums can be so much more helpful than actually calling UKVI or other instances. Cheers!