me and my baby

[markkhadi]

I sincerely hope there is someone out there who can help. I am a student who has been with an englishman for 3 years and have now got a child with him. he is separated and is the process of getting divorced and has been for 3 years. we went to visit my family and we had to make a show of commitment because people of the opposite sex cant hang out together unless they are wed.

we had a registrar witness our commitment and we signed what we call a second wife's right it's normally used to make sure second wives and family don't get ripped off their inheritances. I am now using his name. my student visa expires next year.

My child has dual nationality and i know that if my student visa is not renewed then i will lose my child because my partner would never let me take her with me and would not be able to relocate to my country. My patner/husband and i do not live together but we spend 5/7 days together.

Does anyone know of anyway i can keep my family together so neither of us lose our beloved baby.

[JAJ]

My child has dual nationality

Are you sure about that? Has the child been issued with a British passport?
When was she born?

[markkhadi]

thanks for your reply. my child was born in 08/05 and has her british passport and is in the process of applying for a zambian as well.

[JAJ]

thanks for your reply. my child was born in 08/05 and has her british passport and is in the process of applying for a zambian as well.

Out of interest, how did your child get a British passport if you were not married to the father? Was she registered as a British citizen with the Home Office?

[markkhadi]

he got made the application, and i am married to him by my country's law.

[markkhadi]

as his divorce hasn't come through yet, what does uk law say about polygamous states

[markkhadi]

anybody been in a similar situation or knows anything at all about traditional marriages and any part of my situation, i'd appreciate a private message. thank you

[John]

he got made the application, and i am married to him by my country's law.

In which case the marriage is also valid under UK law, in accordance with the UK's Foreign Marriages Act 1892.

as his divorce hasn't come through yet, what does uk law say about polygamous states

My understanding is that such marriages are legally recognised as valid .... BUT ... and it is a big but! Under UK immigration law only one wife is entitled to enter the UK as the holder of a spouse visa. Any other wife is not entitled to enter as a spouse.

Your child? I think there is a route whereby if you have a Court Order confirming that the child is to live with you in the UK, then there is a route for you to get visa to look after your child. In the first instance you need to consult a Family Law solicitor in order to get that Residence Order, and then move on to deal with the immigration aspect.

When in 2007 does your student visa expire?

[markkhadi]

thank you John for your time, my visa expires in October 2007, but could you explain to me a bit more about the Court order or a link with any more literature on the matte would help me. His wife is English so would that affect anyway in anyway? and would the residence order be in regards to my child?

[John]

Yes, a Residence Order confirms where your child needs to live, as more fully described on this webpage. It is a Family Law lawyer you would see about getting such an Order.

Armed with such an Order, confirming that your child needs to live in the UK, you would then make an application for a visa on the basis of para 246 of the Immigration Rules .... click here. Your will see that specifically mentions a Residence Order ... hence the order these things need to be done in.

You will also see that a visa granted under these provisions will be for 12 months ... says para 247. Near the end of those 12 months you would use the provisions of para 248D to apply for ILR.

But in the first instance go and see a Family Law lawyer. You might want to take a print of para 246 with you, to explain why you need a Residence Order in respect of your child.

His wife English? Not an issue.

[markkhadi]

thanks so much John, you have given me hope and i knew that the worst case scenario would be for me to lose my child, but now there's so much hope for me. words can't express my gratitude x

[John]

Markkhadi, as regards possibly losing your child, the benefit of a Residence Order is that it confirms not just to you where the child will live and with whom.

That is, it confirms to you, the child's father, and absolutely everyone, that the child will live as directed in the Order.

[markkhadi]

I have looked at the literature on the links you have provided me with and will attempt to consult a family lawyer preferebly who's firm deals with immigration law as well, hopefully over then next few months. if you have any recommendations .... . will post again when i have taken some action.

Regards,
Markkhadi

[markkhadi]

I have consulted a couple of family and immigration law and none of them seem enthusiastic about my case really. they all seem to dwell on the Unmarried Partner issue but seems i don't live with my partner that is next to impossible and i have explained that i am thinking long term that if we broke up it would have to be starting all over again. They told me the traditional marriage isn't recognized and i qouted the Foreign Marraiges Act of 1892 (i think) and the lawyer seemed like he hadn't thought of it. They also said because our marraige is not recognized then my partner hasn't got any rights to my child thus i cant apply for the residency order and make an application based on that. Can anyone add anything to help me further.

[ppron747]

Can I just have a word about the validity of overseas marriages? It is true that, in most cases, marriages taking place outside UK are valid in UK - as John indicated above.

BUT the marriage has to be valid for both parties under the law of the place in which it was celebrated - and this is where there can be a problem in respect of "traditional" or "customary" marriages. Obviously the laws on such marriages are going to differ from country to country but in most cases traditional marriages are only valid for people who are part of the tradition - both parties have to be subject to "native law and custom" - and this can rule out traditional/customary marriages between "foreigners" (ie your partner, when he is visiting your home country) and citizens of the country concerned.

There is provision in UK law for a child to be treated as "legitimate" when he/she was born after an invalid marriage has taken place, provided that one of the parties to the "marriage" reasonably believed it to be valid, but this only affects the child's status - it doesn't affect the fact that the marriage is not valid.

One other point: I'm sure it is true that you, as the mother of a child born out of wedlock cannot apply for a residence order. You already have sole custody of the child, so you cannot apply for it. But I'm sure that you and your partner together can apply to the courts for an order which would give him parental rights, rather than having those rights resting solely with you. But what I don't know is whether this step would help you in any way towards your goal of staying in the UK. I'm not familiar enough with the Immigration Rules to know whether there is provision for a non-settled parent to be given leave to remain in UK in order to meet the requirements of a parental order. (I'm not even sure if I have the legal term right...) Perhaps someone with a better knowledge of the Rules could chime in as to whether this might be worth examining...

A final thought: you say that your partner has been trying to get a divorce for three years. Do you plan on marrying once the divorce has finally come through, and he is free to marry you? If so, won't you then be able to apply for a standard spouse or fiancé visa, going "home" to do so?

[markkhadi]

thank you for replying Paul, you have definetely cleared a couple of things up for me, we hope to wed when my partner's divorce comes through or at least live together because my tradition does not allow it (when i am legally his first wife i can then live with him). would it be better do you reckon for me to go home when my visa expires and apply for the Right for Access to a Child Resident in the UK?

[markkhadi]

i have just had another piece of bad news and apparently I cant apply for the Access to a Child Resident in the Uk because the child has to have been in the uk for 7 years, i was told this by Named OISC advisors.(my child is 1 year old) I'm not sure where to look now. if anyone has any input it be appreciated.

[markkhadi]

i have recently had corespondance from a company called Medvisas, here is what the had to say

The law is posted here http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/siteco ... schapter7/ and the caseworking instructions are here http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/siteco ... iew=Binary

The thing that makes it complicated and outside of the rules is that a switch to this category is usually only permitted when the applicant has been admitted to the UK as a spouse or unmarried partner. As you have been admitted as a student, it makes things trickier, and this is why the application would be outside of the rules. it is impossible to get hold of the statistics, but each application which is dealt with outside of the rules is judged on its own merits, so statistics would really be meaningless anyway.

So, it will be tricky, but if this is your only option right now it is worth a try.


Has anyone got any thoughts on this is it worth me going through with it. Any input is most welcome

[Twin]

Hello...

It's been a while, but I wondered if you still come on the site and if there is any chance we can get an update?

I hope things worked out for you in the end.

[Twin]

i have just had another piece of bad news and apparently I cant apply for the Access to a Child Resident in the Uk because the child has to have been in the uk for 7 years, i was told this by Named OISC advisors.(my child is 1 year old) I'm not sure where to look now. if anyone has any input it be appreciated.

could this really be true? It says nothing of the sort in the requirements. I'm afraid you seem to have been misinformed! What a shame!

Goes to buttress my point that not many legal advisors are well versed in this area of immigration. It's sad that they might just have caused this woman her chance to remain or enter legally to access rights to her child.

[Twin]

Yes, a Residence Order confirms where your child needs to live, as more fully described on this webpage. It is a Family Law lawyer you would see about getting such an Order.

Armed with such an Order, confirming that your child needs to live in the UK, you would then make an application for a visa on the basis of para 246 of the Immigration Rules .... click here. Your will see that specifically mentions a Residence Order ... hence the order these things need to be done in.

You will also see that a visa granted under these provisions will be for 12 months ... says para 247. Near the end of those 12 months you would use the provisions of para 248D to apply for ILR.

But in the first instance go and see a Family Law lawyer. You might want to take a print of para 246 with you, to explain why you need a Residence Order in respect of your child.

His wife English? Not an issue.

John, is it really correct that a resident order will do in this case? I know the requirement mentioned a Residence order. However, in the same vein the first requirement is for the child to be permanently resident with the other parent (doesn't this mean the parent with the resident order?) A resident order in the requirement might be referring to a joint residency order, I think.