Medical insurance clarification!

[gillacious_505]

Hello fellow members,

My sister received her german residence card and we plan to come to uk under surinder singh and hence apply for eea2.

She is dependent on her parent and as such she is not working. Because of her age 25+ her medical insurance is not covered by the german public health insurance(of parents)

And even the private insurance are refusing to insure her.

So the question is will that be an issue for applying eea2 and can she get nhs insurance once she is back.

[noajthan]

Who is sister coming to UK with?
Who is her sponsor?

Why does sister think she needs insurance? what is it for?

[ALKB]

Hello fellow members,

My sister received her german residence card and we plan to come to uk under surinder singh and hence apply for eea2.

She is dependent on her parent and as such she is not working. Because of her age 25+ her medical insurance is not covered by the german public health insurance(of parents)

And even the private insurance are refusing to insure her.

So the question is will that be an issue for applying eea2 and can she get nhs insurance once she is back.

By law, everyone registered in Germany needs to have German health insurance - how did she get the residence card without it?

Why are private insurers refusing her?

She should be able to get 'voluntary' (not working, not on benefits, not studying) statutory insurance. Not cheap but cheaper than getting ill and having to pay the doctor/hospital. I know of a recent case where somebody was presented with a EUR 40k medical bill.

[gillacious_505]

Who is sister coming to UK with?
Who is her sponsor?

Why does sister think she needs insurance? what is it for?

She is coming with her mother (british citizen) and she is her sponsor.

This is the German health insurance we are talking about here. She can't get the german health insurance for the reason mentioned above. So is it mandatory for her to have German health insurance to get an EHIC card and then get into NHS?

[noajthan]

Start here:
http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/AboutNHSse ... e-eea.aspx

[gillacious_505]

Hello fellow members,

My sister received her german residence card and we plan to come to uk under surinder singh and hence apply for eea2.

She is dependent on her parent and as such she is not working. Because of her age 25+ her medical insurance is not covered by the german public health insurance(of parents)

And even the private insurance are refusing to insure her.

So the question is will that be an issue for applying eea2 and can she get nhs insurance once she is back.

By law, everyone registered in Germany needs to have German health insurance - how did she get the residence card without it?

Why are private insurers refusing her?

She should be able to get 'voluntary' (not working, not on benefits, not studying) statutory insurance. Not cheap but cheaper than getting ill and having to pay the doctor/hospital. I know of a recent case where somebody was presented with a EUR 40k medical bill.

She got it because she was still cover under the short term private health insurance from the non-eu country from where she is originally based.

Private refusing her because she havent got the public. You got to have public before private.

This voluntary insurance...Is this some think you get it from Germany or UK.

My question is for Surinder singh category, you dont have to be qualified person. So how would this influence her to get the NHS insurance within the UK. She is a non-EU national of a EU national and that EU national is British Citizen. So confused

[noajthan]

Read the NHS website to ease your confusion.

Provision of free NHS treatment is on the basis of being ordinarily resident and is not dependent upon nationality, payment of UK taxes, national insurance (NI) contributions, being registered with a GP, having an NHS number or owning property in the UK.

Ordinarily resident means, broadly speaking, living in the UK on a lawful and properly settled basis for the time being.

[gillacious_505]

Read the NHS website to ease your confusion.

Provision of free NHS treatment is on the basis of being ordinarily resident and is not dependent upon nationality, payment of UK taxes, national insurance (NI) contributions, being registered with a GP, having an NHS number or owning property in the UK.

Ordinarily resident means, broadly speaking, living in the UK on a lawful and properly settled basis for the time being.

Noajthan, I have read that several times. What I am saying is that with the recent changes in the NHS eligibility, only the settled persons would be given the free NHS treatment whereas in this case, it is a non-eu national who is yet to obtain the EEA2 residence card in the UK.

SO the confusion is how can she get the NHS card if she don't even have health insurance from Germany.

My question is with Surinder Singh category and keeping the EIND case law in mind, would that means she is immune to the NHS changes and have no trouble getting into NHS ?

[noajthan]

Noajthan, I have read that several times. What I am saying is that with the recent changes in the NHS eligibility, only the settled persons would be given the free NHS treatment whereas in this case, it is a non-eu national who is yet to obtain the EEA2 residence card in the UK.

SO the confusion is how can she get the NHS card if she don't even have health insurance from Germany.

My question is with Surinder Singh category and keeping the EIND case law in mind, would that means she is immune to the NHS changes and have no trouble getting into NHS ?

Eind benefits the sponsor not the sponsee.
3 months or so (ie after initial EU grace period) and she should be ordinarily resident in UK under auspices of EU law.

[gillacious_505]

So that means its not an imperative for a non-eu national to have health insurance where the eu national exercised the treaty rights(for having nhs in uk).

[ALKB]

Hello fellow members,

My sister received her german residence card and we plan to come to uk under surinder singh and hence apply for eea2.

She is dependent on her parent and as such she is not working. Because of her age 25+ her medical insurance is not covered by the german public health insurance(of parents)

And even the private insurance are refusing to insure her.

So the question is will that be an issue for applying eea2 and can she get nhs insurance once she is back.

By law, everyone registered in Germany needs to have German health insurance - how did she get the residence card without it?

Why are private insurers refusing her?

She should be able to get 'voluntary' (not working, not on benefits, not studying) statutory insurance. Not cheap but cheaper than getting ill and having to pay the doctor/hospital. I know of a recent case where somebody was presented with a EUR 40k medical bill.

She got it because she was still cover under the short term private health insurance from the non-eu country from where she is originally based.

Private refusing her because she havent got the public. You got to have public before private.

Um, no? That's the first time I hear that.

This voluntary insurance...Is this some think you get it from Germany or UK.

It's what you call 'German Public Health Insurance'. Just contact any of the statutory (public) insurance providers. Like the one her parents are with. Or AOK, or TK, or any other:

https://www.gkv-spitzenverband.de/engli ... urance.jsp

My question is for Surinder singh category, you dont have to be qualified person. So how would this influence her to get the NHS insurance within the UK. She is a non-EU national of a EU national and that EU national is British Citizen. So confused

Well, once she has her EEA family permit and then Residence Card she has access to the NHS (at least until the UK leaves the EU). The UK is not interested in her German health insurance but how long is she going to stay in Germany?

I understand her parents moved to Germany to undertake Surinder Singh for her? How long have they been in Germany?

The usual recommendation is to stay at least 6-12 months to show that they have moved their centre of life to the EU country. Not having health insurance for such a long time in Germany is a) illegal and b) very risky.

[ALKB]

Who is sister coming to UK with?
Who is her sponsor?

Why does sister think she needs insurance? what is it for?

So is it mandatory for her to have German health insurance to get an EHIC card and then get into NHS?

In Germany, the regular health insurance cards double up as EHIC cards (ask your/her?) mum to turn over her health insurance card from her statutory insurance provider and she should see the EHIC information on that.

As soon as somebody unregisters their residence in Germany (mandatory when leaving Germany permanently), the health insurance card has to be returned to the insurance provider, so your sister would not be able to take her EHIC with her when moving permanently to the UK.

If she/they do not unregister, they can face fines and the insurance provider will invoice them at maximum cost up to the date on their de-registration certificate.

How is the mother exercising treaty rights?

Is the household income above benefit threshold?

The system is not designed for an adult who is not working, studying, covered through a spouse, or eligible for benefits. I guess that you don't want your sister to work, study or apply for benefits in Germany since that would then make her less dependent on her mother?

[gillacious_505]

In Germany, the regular health insurance cards double up as EHIC cards (ask your/her?) mum to turn over her health insurance card from her statutory insurance provider and she should see the EHIC information on that.

As soon as somebody unregisters their residence in Germany (mandatory when leaving Germany permanently), the health insurance card has to be returned to the insurance provider, so your sister would not be able to take her EHIC with her when moving permanently to the UK.

The trouble is we going to seek entry based on the Article 10 residence card and not family permit. So we are not taking risk to unregister unless we have a confirmed entry. Is there anyway you can unregister it remotely?

If she/they do not unregister, they can face fines and the insurance provider will invoice them at maximum cost up to the date on their de-registration certificate.

How is the mother exercising treaty rights?
She is self-employed

Is the household income above benefit threshold?

It is about 2k Euros per month. I don't know what is the benefit threshold but they aint claiming benefit. I also read somewhere that to be qualified under SS even 20 hours work would suffice the purpose and clearly it is more than that.

The system is not designed for an adult who is not working, studying, covered through a spouse, or eligible for benefits. I guess that you don't want your sister to work, study or apply for benefits in Germany since that would then make her less dependent on her mother?

You guessed it right. I know there are many case laws where the family member can work despite being the dependent but we just don't want the risk. It fundamentally contradicts the concept of dependency. Whats your take on it and what are the alternatives? I still don't know what are the alternatives of health insurance for my sister. Public categorically rejects it based on the fact that the non-eu national is from non-eu and they don't have the agreement with them. So in order to qualify to get any insurance from them you need to be working or you should be getting benefits

[Petaltop]

Read the NHS website to ease your confusion.

Provision of free NHS treatment is on the basis of being ordinarily resident and is not dependent upon nationality, payment of UK taxes, national insurance (NI) contributions, being registered with a GP, having an NHS number or owning property in the UK.

Ordinarily resident means, broadly speaking, living in the UK on a lawful and properly settled basis for the time being.

The website is out of date. The Immigration Act 2014 changed that "ordinary resident"defination to those who are permanent residents (BC, ILR,). That is why they were able to bring in the Immigration Health Surcharge in April 2015.

EEA citizens use of the NHS was never mentioned in that Act. Laws take a lot to amend. Instead those using EU laws are covered by what the UK will give EEA citizens while the UK remains in the EU.


There was lots on the internet about this in 2014. Here is one I just googled.

"Firstly, the Immigration Act will change the definition of ‘ordinarily resident’ for the purpose of accessing NHS services. Currently, entitlement to free NHS hospital treatment is based on 'ordinary residence' in the UK - broadly decided on whether an individual is living here on a lawful and properly settled basis. It does not include a minimum time period for residence. The Act redefines the ‘ordinarily resident’ test to exclude all migrants who do not have indefinite leave to remain in the UK."
http://www.migrantsrights.org.uk/blog/2 ... s-nhs-care

[ALKB]

The trouble is we going to seek entry based on the Article 10 residence card and not family permit. So we are not taking risk to unregister unless we have a confirmed entry. Is there anyway you can unregister it remotely?

Check the local municipality's website, there should be a form to download that you can send by post. Expect the de-registration certificate to take weeks to arrive, though, if at all. The normal way to do this is in person with immediate issuance of the certificate. You might have to chase by phone/email. You have to unregister within two weeks of leaving Germany.

I still don't know what are the alternatives of health insurance for my sister. Public categorically rejects it based on the fact that the non-eu national is from non-eu and they don't have the agreement with them. So in order to qualify to get any insurance from them you need to be working or you should be getting benefits

She has a valid residence card - did you inform the insurance provider of that? There are many, many 'public' health insurance providers, did you contact just the one?

Do you have somebody who speaks German who calls them to explain the situation? I have the feeling that maybe there is something lost in translation?

Ask for Freiwillige Versicherung. No need for agreements.