Questions regarding Admin Review

[hamalt66]

Hi all, I would appreciate your feed back and answers, especially from the senior members here, regarding the following questions:

1) if an extension application was refused, do you have to go for an Admin Review first? Or can you re-apply straight away?

2) if decided on a fresh application, do you inform the HO that you wish to apply a new application so that they send you your passports and other documents to start a fresh application, or do you send your application without these documents?

3) I understand that one will have to apply for AR within 14 days of the decision, but is the 14 days starting from the date printed on the letter or from the date one received them?

4) if one proceeds with the Admin Review, and still refused, how long do we have to apply a fresh application, is it 14 days, or 28 days?

Your answers are much appreciated.

[zimba]

1) if an extension application was refused, do you have to go for an Admin Review first? Or can you re-apply straight away?

It is up to you. You can choose

2) if decided on a fresh application, do you inform the HO that you wish to apply a new application so that they send you your passports and other documents to start a fresh application, or do you send your application without these documents?

You apply for fresh application and inform HO that on the cover letter (or on the form) that the documents are with them.

3) I understand that one will have to apply for AR within 14 days of the decision, but is the 14 days starting from the date printed on the letter or from the date one received them?

From the date of refusal on the letter

4) if one proceeds with the Admin Review, and still refused, how long do we have to apply a fresh application, is it 14 days, or 28 days?

Currently it is 28 days but from 24th November 2016 it will be reduced to 14 days only.

[hamalt66]

Thanks Zimba, as usual prompt and useful answers.

[awan905]

Further to above in fresh application you will see section where you have to enter passport details, here you can tick on column where it says not with you and also in 2nd section with home office. For degree it will not give you this option so next to where you will tick not with you , just wrote that already with home office. You can do this also in cover letter.

[hamalt66]

Further to above in fresh application you will see section where you have to enter passport details, here you can tick on column where it says not with you and also in 2nd section with home office. For degree it will not give you this option so next to where you will tick not with you , just wrote that already with home office. You can do this also in cover letter.

Thanks Awan, in the AR is there a space to write online your argument or does it allow you to upload your document/letter?

[hamalt66]

I wonder if it's ok to apply for AR to get some time then prepare a fresh application and send it without waiting for AR decision just to beat the 24th November deadline!?

[zimba]

I wonder if it's ok to apply for AR to get some time then prepare a fresh application and send it without waiting for AR decision just to beat the 24th November deadline!?

When you apply for fresh application, your AR will be deemed withdrawn automatically.
FYI, You get 14 days AFTER AR refusal to apply for a fresh application.

[awan905]

I wonder if it's ok to apply for AR to get some time then prepare a fresh application and send it without waiting for AR decision just to beat the 24th November deadline!?

For AR you will only have 1000 words, in which you need to explain why you think the decision is wrong, also AR will only give you 14 days extra after 24 th Nov, further you cant upload or submit any document wit AR.

[hamalt66]

I wonder if it's ok to apply for AR to get some time then prepare a fresh application and send it without waiting for AR decision just to beat the 24th November deadline!?

When you apply for fresh application, your AR will be deemed withdrawn automatically.
FYI, You get 14 days AFTER AR refusal to apply for a fresh application.

Two more questions please:

1) If the refusal letter mentions only AR, can you still go for a fresh application instead of the AR, Or is it mandatory to go for AR first?

2) On the application form what is the answer to the question "when does your visa expires", if the first application took more than 7 months from the expiry of initial leave to remain; should one count 14 days or is it 28 days from refusal letter?

[zimba]

1) If the refusal letter mentions only AR, can you still go for a fresh application instead of the AR, Or is it mandatory to go for AR first?

You are not forced to go for AR. Simple as that !

2) On the application form what is the answer to the question "when does your visa expires", if the first application took more than 7 months from the expiry of initial leave to remain; should one count 14 days or is it 28 days from refusal letter?

If you are covered by section 3C, then the section 3C period ends on the day you apply for a fresh application.
So that day simply becomes the expiry date of your leave.

[hamalt66]

You are not forced to go for AR. Simple as that !

I see, so even though the letter doesn't mention fresh application possibility can go for it before the end of the 14 days, correct?

But then, I am not sure when does the 14 days following a refusal decision actually start, is it from the date printed on the letter or the date the decision received? Obviously, it will be unfair if from the date on the letter, since they send it 2nd class and would take up to 7 days to reach you... that's half of the 14 days!!!

If you are covered by section 3C, then the section 3C period ends on the day you apply for a fresh application. So that day simply becomes the expiry date of your leave.

Hmm, that makes sense... Although it raises another question, say if one applys today and writes today's date as the expiry date on the form, and it reaches HO a day or two later, will one be considered an overstayer by 2 days? Or is one still covered?

[zimba]

I see, so even though the letter doesn't mention fresh application possibility can go for it before the end of the 14 days, correct?

You get 14 days to apply for AR, then your section 3C ends. From that point onwards, you get extra 28 days (soon to be 14 days) to apply for fresh application.

But then, I am not sure when does the 14 days following a refusal decision actually start, is it from the date printed on the letter or the date the decision received? Obviously, it will be unfair if from the date on the letter, since they send it 2nd class and would take up to 7 days to reach you... that's half of the 14 days!!!

It is when the decision is served, according to the rules that is 2 business days after the date of refusal.

Hmm, that makes sense... Although it raises another question, say if one applys today and writes today's date as the expiry date on the form, and it reaches HO a day or two later, will one be considered an overstayer by 2 days? Or is one still covered?

According to the rules, the date of an application is the day it is posted.

[jafersadeq]

If you are covered by section 3C, then the section 3C period ends on the day you apply for a fresh application.
So that day simply becomes the expiry date of your leave.

Dear Zimba,

If someone applied a fresh application his 3C ends, if the (second application) took 3 months then he got extension, what about the 3 month (processing time), is it outside section 3c and he is overstayer?

Thanks,

[zimba]

Dear Zimba,

If someone applied a fresh application his 3C ends, if the (second application) took 3 months then he got extension, what about the 3 month (processing time), is it outside section 3c and he is overstayer?

Thanks,

Yes, you remain an overstayer. However if the 2nd application was successful, that overstaying period will be ignored for the ILR

[jafersadeq]

Dear Zimba,

If someone applied a fresh application his 3C ends, if the (second application) took 3 months then he got extension, what about the 3 month (processing time), is it outside section 3c and he is overstayer?

Thanks,

Yes, you remain an overstayer. However if the 2nd application was successful, that overstaying period will be ignored for the ILR

Dear Zimab,

1-Does that period (period of processing the second application) break the continuity of the 5 years of naturalization.
2-Please provide me with the link (according to HO rules) regarding ignoring the overstaying period (period of processing the second application).

Thanks

[zimba]

1-Does that period (period of processing the second application) break the continuity of the 5 years of naturalization.
2-Please provide me with the link (according to HO rules) regarding ignoring the overstaying period (period of processing the second application).

Please note that your questions are NOT related to the topic of this thread. Please start your own thread if you have questions. I answer it as I think it will be useful for the OP too.

Immigration rules Part 6A, paragraph 245AAA(a)(iii) says under General requirements for indefinite leave to remain:

(iii) the applicant has any period of overstaying between periods of entry clearance, leave to enter or leave to remain of up to 28 days and any period of overstaying pending the determination of an application made within that 28 day period disregarded

Please note that the 28 days rule is about to change soon on 24 November 2016 and will be reduced to only 14 days.

[hamalt66]

[quote="zimba88"]

You get 14 days to apply for AR, then your section 3C ends. From that point onwards, you get extra 28 days (soon to be 14 days) to apply for fresh application.

[quote]

What if one sends a fresh application before the 14 days given for the AR ends, when will section 3C starts, the day he/she posts the application?

[zimba]

What if one sends a fresh application before the 14 days given for the AR ends, when will section 3C starts, the day he/she posts the application?

Your section 3C starts when your in-time application is refused and you have no valid visa. The 14 days is a time frame for AR covered by section 3C.

- If you apply for AR within that 14 days, your section 3C period continues until you hear back the results
- If you do not apply for AR and 14 days is over, your Section 3C ends.
- If you apply for a fresh application at any time while covered by section 3C, your section 3C automatically ends on that day.

[hamalt66]

What if one sends a fresh application before the 14 days given for the AR ends, when will section 3C starts, the day he/she posts the application?

Your section 3C starts when your in-time application is refused and you have no valid visa. The 14 days is a time frame for AR covered by section 3C.

- If you apply for AR within that 14 days, your section 3C period continues until you hear back the results
- If you do not apply for AR and 14 days is over, your Section 3C ends.
- If you apply for a fresh application at any time while covered by section 3C, your section 3C automatically ends on that day.

I am not sure I understand the last point. If I apply for a fresh application, not AR, am I an overstayer?

[zimba]

Yes, because you do not have a valid visa and section 3C will not cover you.

Migrant’ s status following submission of an application within 28 days of overstaying
The submission of an application within the 28 day period of overstaying does not mean the migrant’s previous leave is either re - instated or extended. Therefore an applicant without valid leave at the point they submit their application continues to be an overstayer from the point their leave expired and throughout the period their application is pending.

As the applicant has no leave during the period their application is pending they have no permission to work in the UK.

source: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _clean.pdf

** Also note that the above 28 days rule will soon be reduced to 14 days only, from 24 November 2016.

[hamalt66]

Yes, because you do not have a valid visa and section 3C will not cover you.

Migrant’ s status following submission of an application within 28 days of overstaying
The submission of an application within the 28 day period of overstaying does not mean the migrant’s previous leave is either re - instated or extended. Therefore an applicant without valid leave at the point they submit their application continues to be an overstayer from the point their leave expired and throughout the period their application is pending.

As the applicant has no leave during the period their application is pending they have no permission to work in the UK.

source: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _clean.pdf

** Also note that the above 28 days rule will soon be reduced to 14 days only, from 24 November 2016.

So in this case what's the best decision to make, go for AR even though there is a big chance of refusal because of a missing document or go for fresh application?

[zimba]

Going for AR makes no difference to what I told you above if your AR is ultimately rejected. Go for AR if you think there is a possibility of overturning the decision. Then if you get refused, you can apply for a fresh application and what I told you above applies anyway.

A different scenario:
However If you need to remain on section 3C for some reason (e.g you are almost about to finish 10 years for ILR and you need 40 more days) you better go for AR regardless to buy some legal residency time and go for ILR directly.

[hamalt66]

Going for AR makes no difference to what I told you above if your AR is ultimately rejected. Go for AR if you think there is a possibility of overturning the decision. Then if you get refused, you can apply for a fresh application and what I told you above applies anyway.

A different scenario:
However If you need to remain on section 3C for some reason (e.g you are almost about to finish 10 years for ILR and you need 40 more days) you better go for AR regardless to buy some legal residency time and go for ILR directly.

I don't think AR will overturn the refusal decision because a document is missing. That's why I think fresh application is the only chance to resubmit all documents again. But worried that it will be refused if I'm considered overstayer.

[zimba]

No, you won't. Just apply as soon as you can. You get 28 days after the 14 days to apply.
You will become an overstayer anyway !

[hamalt66]

No, you won't. Just apply as soon as you can. You get 28 days after the 14 days to apply.
You will become an overstayer anyway !

Thank you Zimba, you're truly a great help to fellow entrepreneurs. Just to conclude my queries, you too think that my best option is to resubmit a fresh application ASAP (to include the missing document) rather than go for a pointless AR, right?

And if the decision comes back (hopefully positive one) after say 30 days or more will it affect ILR application in the future?