US visiting UK, pre 'Family of a settled person' visa

[MadeofMusic95]

Hello, my girlfriend is an American citizen, and I am a British-born UK citizen. We wish to get married in the Spring, but would like to do so somewhere in Europe while travelling, such as Italy. Initially we were going to apply for a Visitor visa for her to enter here, with her remaining for 3-4 months before flying back out and returning on a Family of a settled person visa once we are married, but very recently they have no longer made the Visitor visa necessary for US visitors. I know that to marry in the UK we would need a Marriage visa where she would marry but not stay, however marrying in Europe does not require us to register the marriage here in the UK if I'm right, and would therefore not require any UK visa, does anyone know if this is correct?

We are also worried about her coming here for several months. She doesn't have much in the way of money, I am fortunate to have funds to support her. The money I have has not been in my account for six months yet, but will have been by the time we apply for the Family of a settled person visa, and is around £50,000. I'm also setting up as self-employed so have little to no income right now. Before coming here she will have left her job and also moved out of her rented flat to temporarily stay in her mother's house. Is it sufficient to have her show my bank statement and her payslips at immigration? There is very little about this on the government site and I find it unsettling! I try to remind myself that we are doing nothing wrong and she is coming from a rich country to a rich country (with a return ticket), and the fact that they don't even ask for a visa anymore should be reassurance enough that it shouldn't be too difficult.

I thank you for any feedback and advice, and wish you a merry Christmas.

[Wanderer]

A 'visa' has not been needed USA-UK and vice-versa for decades but it's wrong to say visa-free and it is more akin to a 'virtual visa' - subject to visit visa rules and ins and out recoded on the Visa system which I forget the name of.

Some things to consider;

1. 3/4 months is too long, visits are 2/3 weeks a couple of time over the six month VALIDITY of the visa.

2. You can't switch in-country to any other visa from visit visa or VWP.

Use of visit visa for BF/GF's is a bit of a lottery sometimes, but no money and a planned long stay with a fiance/husband will raise red flags, I'm afraid that based on general history the UKVI take the pragmatic view that all people intend the abuse the rules, so you need to be squeaky clean....

[ALKB]

The money I have has not been in my account for six months yet, but will have been by the time we apply for the Family of a settled person visa, and is around £50,000. I'm also setting up as self-employed so have little to no income right now.

A few more things to consider:

£50k in savings will not be enough to apply for a spouse visa, you would need £62.5k.

Have you carefully looked at the financial requirements? The documents required to evidence earnings from self employment are extensive and I believe records for a full financial year are required for any of it to be taken into account.

[MadeofMusic95]

Thankyou both for your feedback. I had spent time looking in to the financial requirements a while back but never came across £62,000. I have seen £18,600 (or similar) annual income, but I seem to remember the alternative to this was £16,000 in savings. Have I missed something?

Regarding self employment, fair enough, perhaps I should hold off on this endeavour for now and get myself in to normal employment while all this is going on.

Thanks for the info on the visa, I hadn't realised that using a long portion of the six month visa would be a problem. Until very recently the government site had said that a visitor visa is required for someone coming from the US, now it says it's not so I was hoping this meant it was now less trouble getting in. I didn't realise it was the same as the visa waiver thing we go in on. I might not have made it clear enough about the settle visa that we intended to fly out and return on the new visa rather than attempt to change while we are in the country. She is estimating around $3000 of savings on her part.

Would you recommend we apply for a marriage visa initially, as our intentions will seem clearer?

[Casa]

It would be a mistake to apply for a fiance visa if you don't yet meet the minimum income level and your intention is for her to remain in the UK after the wedding.
The first £16,000 in savings is disregarded. The amount of savings required to make up any shortfall in earnings depends on the income level.

For example:
Income of £10,000 p.a
Savings required: £16,000 (disregarded) + £8,600 (shortfall from £18,600) x 2.5 (years) = £21,500

With NIL income the savings level would be £62,500 which must have been held in an accessible account for a minimum of 6 months.

What is the situation with your self-employment? Are you a Director of a limited company or a sole-trader?

You could apply for a marriage visit visa, but this would mean that your fiancee would have to leave the UK once you are married (within 6 months) and then later submit a Spouse Settlement visa application from her home country when you are confident that you are able to meet the minimum income requirement, either through evidence of earnings or savings.

[Wanderer]

Thankyou both for your feedback. I had spent time looking in to the financial requirements a while back but never came across £62,000. I have seen £18,600 (or similar) annual income, but I seem to remember the alternative to this was £16,000 in savings. Have I missed something?

Regarding self employment, fair enough, perhaps I should hold off on this endeavour for now and get myself in to normal employment while all this is going on.

Thanks for the info on the visa, I hadn't realised that using a long portion of the six month visa would be a problem. Until very recently the government site had said that a visitor visa is required for someone coming from the US, now it says it's not so I was hoping this meant it was now less trouble getting in. I didn't realise it was the same as the visa waiver thing we go in on. I might not have made it clear enough about the settle visa that we intended to fly out and return on the new visa rather than attempt to change while we are in the country. She is estimating around $3000 of savings on her part.

Would you recommend we apply for a marriage visa initially, as our intentions will seem clearer?

To rely wholey on savings the required amount is £62,500, the first £16,000 isn't counted, the rest of the amount equates to £18,600 x 2.5 (the length of the initial spouse visa). You can use a combination of both savings and income, subject to weird formula I can never remember but I think in you case it would be £50,000 less £16,000 disregard, divided by 2.5 equals £13,600, so you would to earn the balance as income, £5000 pa either by PAYE salaried for six months, or 12 months if self-employed.

Don't forget the not insubstantial visa fees, I forget the exact amount but it's around £1300 plus IHS Health charge of £600, so a good £2k. And that's just the first of four to get to Citizenship!

No formal visa application is needed for US citizens visiting UK and hasn't been literally for 50 years, but if the applicant has a poor immigration history, or has benn refused entry to UK in the past, they would need to formally apply.

As BF/GF entering on VWP you will always run the gamut trying to get past the IO if stopped, for example if she was stopped and was carrying marriage type paperwork she'd almost certainly be bounced.

For a marriage visa you'd need to fulfil the financial requirements which you don't at the moment. Unless you mean marriage visit visa, which allows you to marry in UK and return after, but I think you wanted to marry in Italy.

If I were you I'd forget the travelling part and start the process to amass 6 months of ongoing salaried employment ASAP and keep the £50k intact for the same period. Do the travelling after, be so much easier but bear in mind you still need to fulfil the financial requirements for the next visa in 2.5 years time.

[MadeofMusic95]

Firstly, I really appreciate the help and information, I felt like it was a real struggle to find answers to questions out there and we might have gone ahead not being prepared otherwise. Thankyou to all of you.

-

I see now, I felt like I had looked closely in to the financial requirements in the Annex FM document. It's eye-opening to see that £50,000 is not enough. So at this stage there is no way we can apply for the Family of a settled person visa in April as originally planned, even if I do move more money in to that account or get myself on a payroll right now.

Even though she has been an American citizen for ten years, she is Jamaican. Does this have any bearing on anything, or is her Jamaican status defunct?

We have already been apart for four months, and we're not young anymore! Time is important to us, and she is moving in to her mum's expecting to be there for the short term. My new options are:

1. Work now, making trips to visit her during the six months (which would be difficult on her part)
2. Move more money in to the account (borrow from family), me visit there, marry, and work there through the six month period until we can apply for the settle visa
3. Move more money in to the account, go travelling together for the majority of the six month period
4. Both give up on the UK and move somewhere easier to settle

Just to clarify for the future, each 2 ½ years we would need to submit the settle visa application, and we would need to demonstrate secure annual income and current savings totalling at least £62,500, as well as the £1,195 fee + NHS charge? I presume property can factor in to that as well. Sounds like it will make hopes of being self-employed a lot harder to fulfil.

A.

[Wanderer]

Firstly, I really appreciate the help and information, I felt like it was a real struggle to find answers to questions out there and we might have gone ahead not being prepared otherwise. Thankyou to all of you.

-

I see now, I felt like I had looked closely in to the financial requirements in the Annex FM document. It's eye-opening to see that £50,000 is not enough. So at this stage there is no way we can apply for the Family of a settled person visa in April as originally planned, even if I do move more money in to that account or get myself on a payroll right now.

Even though she has been an American citizen for ten years, she is Jamaican. Does this have any bearing on anything, or is her Jamaican status defunct?

We have already been apart for four months, and we're not young anymore! Time is important to us, and she is moving in to her mum's expecting to be there for the short term. My new options are:

1. Work now, making trips to visit her during the six months (which would be difficult on her part)
2. Move more money in to the account (borrow from family), me visit there, marry, and work there through the six month period until we can apply for the settle visa
3. Move more money in to the account, go travelling together for the majority of the six month period
4. Both give up on the UK and move somewhere easier to settle

Just to clarify for the future, each 2 ½ years we would need to submit the settle visa application, and we would need to demonstrate secure annual income and current savings totalling at least £62,500, as well as the £1,195 fee + NHS charge? I presume property can factor in to that as well. Sounds like it will make hopes of being self-employed a lot harder to fulfil.

A.

re: The Jamaica connection - does she have any British Ancestry as far back as a grandparent?

The rest;

1. Makes sense
2. Borrowed money is not counted, whereas gifted is.
3. As above
4. UK is one of the easier places to settle, in the first world at least. There's always the EU, settle there relatively easily but Brexit and general tightening up making it tougher..

It's saving only, income only or combination of both. Property makes no difference. it's 2x2.5 visas, two fees and two lots of IHS charges. Then for ILR no IHS charges, and BC as well. Budget 5/6k for the lot over 5 years.

[Casa]

Firstly, I really appreciate the help and information, I felt like it was a real struggle to find answers to questions out there and we might have gone ahead not being prepared otherwise. Thankyou to all of you.

-

I see now, I felt like I had looked closely in to the financial requirements in the Annex FM document. It's eye-opening to see that £50,000 is not enough. So at this stage there is no way we can apply for the Family of a settled person visa in April as originally planned, even if I do move more money in to that account or get myself on a payroll right now.

Even though she has been an American citizen for ten years, she is Jamaican. Does this have any bearing on anything, or is her Jamaican status defunct?
Assuming that she has dual citizenship, this isn't relevant to the application unless she has British ancestry.
We have already been apart for four months, and we're not young anymore! Time is important to us, and she is moving in to her mum's expecting to be there for the short term. My new options are:

1. Work now, making trips to visit her during the six months (which would be difficult on her part)
2. Move more money in to the account (borrow from family), me visit there, marry, and work there through the six month period until we can apply for the settle visa Money must be gifted, not loaned.
3. Move more money in to the account, go travelling together for the majority of the six month period The full £62,500 must be held in an accessible account for a minimum of 6 months.
4. Both give up on the UK and move somewhere easier to settle

Just to clarify for the future, each 2 ½ years we would need to submit the settle visa application, and we would need to demonstrate secure annual income and current savings totalling at least £62,500, as well as the £1,195 fee + NHS charge? I presume property can factor in to that as well. Sounds like it will make hopes of being self-employed a lot harder to fulfil. Correct regarding proof of funds at each application stage (FLR(M) x 2 & ILR). Property ownership doesn't qualify towards meeting the minimum finance level. Visa fees for FLR(M) are currently £811 postal, or £1311 if applied for in person. ILR (at the end of 5 years) is currently £1875 postal, or £2375 if applied for in person. Bear in mind that visa fees tend in increase annually.

A.

Edit: Beaten by Wanderer

[MadeofMusic95]

Hi Wanderer,

She does not have a British connection I'm pretty sure, although her step dad is English, living in the US but still a UK citizen. I have asked about this before but they seem to think it's not relevant.

Regarding the borrowing money (family money), what would they require to prove the ownership of the money, other than the money being held in your account for over six months? Could I get the lender to put something in writing?

[MadeofMusic95]

Thanks Casa.

[Wanderer]

Hi Wanderer,

She does not have a British connection I'm pretty sure, although her step dad is English, living in the US but still a UK citizen. I have asked about this before but they seem to think it's not relevant.

Regarding the borrowing money (family money), what would they require to prove the ownership of the money, other than the money being held in your account for over six months? Could I get the lender to put something in writing?

Can't borrow money, has to be a gift with no conditions.

[noajthan]

There is always Surinder Singh but that route into UK is on its last legs and can't lead to PR in normal way anymore.

[MadeofMusic95]

Thanks noajthan, I'll look in to it.

Hi Wanderer, what I'm asking is how do they determine the ownership of the money? My brother and I both received inheritance earlier this year, but it was paid in to his account then transfered to mine. By what means do they assess the ownership of the money, is it only by length of time in the account?

Does her step dad's British nationality have any bearing on anything?

I haven't talked to my girlfriend about any of this yet and am just getting some things clear so that I have something to tell her rather than just worrying her.

[CR001]

Does her step dad's British nationality have any bearing on anything?

No, for the purpose of citizenship, a step parent is irrelevant.

[Wanderer]

Thanks noajthan, I'll look in to it.

Hi Wanderer, what I'm asking is how do they determine the ownership of the money? My brother and I both received inheritance earlier this year, but it was paid in to his account then transfered to mine. By what means do they assess the ownership of the money, is it only by length of time in the account?

I really don't know, but it's always better to keep it 100% clean, there's more than enough dodgy chancers about even on here and the UKVI and catching up with devious tricks to catch people out. We used to have a mantra - Get Caught in A Lie, Kiss Visa Bye-bye....

FWIW it you'd most likely get away with i but I can't bring myself to say it's honest or fair..

[ALKB]

What I'm asking is how do they determine the ownership of the money? My brother and I both received inheritance earlier this year, but it was paid in to his account then transfered to mine. By what means do they assess the ownership of the money, is it only by length of time in the account?

It depends on the individual situation.

I remember a refusal of a spouse visa after the applicant had only supplied 6 months bank statements showing the amount untouched (it's somewhere on the forum) - the father of the British spouse had received a substantial insurance payout and UKVI wanted to see:

- Documentation regarding the payout from the insurance company
- Bank statement of father showing money coming into his account
- Bank statement of father showing money going out of his account destined for daughter's account
- Daughter's (British spouse's) bank statement showing the money going into her account from father's account

Also: a signed statement from the father that the money was a gift and that she did not need to pay it back ever.

In your case I would think that you would need some sort of official documentation regarding inheritance and similar documents to what is mentioned above regarding payment from your brother's account.

[MadeofMusic95]

Hi all, I recently posted about my girlfriend and I's plans to marry and pursue a Family of a settled person visa in around six months time, once I have fulfilled the financial requirements needed. She is a US citizen and I am a UK citizen. I was advised that in the meantime, it would be risky having my girlfriend visit here on the visa waiver programme for a long period, as it may be viewed suspicious if she doesn't have ties there, that makes sense.

I am looking for any alternative ways to get her here for a period of several months, and as soon as possible as things are very difficult for her there at the moment. Would a placement with a charity through tier 5 sponsorship be a relatively simple, quick and successful route to go down? Or would she face the same level of scrutinisation with regards to the ensuring of her return to her country (which is our intent anyway)? She is currently working, and if she could get extended leave with her employer, would that be sufficient evidence to show she intended to return, rather than if she left her employment? If I were able to organise job offers for her through connected friends, would that be an easy route to get her here? Or if I set up a short college course for her that supports tier 5?

Really grasping at any method of getting us together at this point, as otherwise there is the potential for us to be apart for another 7-8 months.

Thankyou for your time.

[ouflak1]

I am looking for any alternative ways to get her here for a period of several months, and as soon as possible as things are very difficult for her there at the moment. Would a placement with a charity through tier 5 sponsorship be a relatively simple, quick and successful route to go down? Or would she face the same level of scrutinisation with regards to the ensuring of her return to her country (which is our intent anyway)?

Everybody entering on any kind of specific visa faces some kind of scrutiny and the scrutiny would be higher. The turnaround can be varied and depends on a few factors. One advantage of going this route is that she would be able to switch in-country to another visa type.

She is currently working, and if she could get extended leave with her employer, would that be sufficient evidence to show she intended to return, rather than if she left her employment?

Depends on the work, pay, time with the company, etc.... Obviously a hard dresser can be replaced by a company more easily than a senior software architect with years of experience at a company. The fact that her company could let her take an extended leave might not look good, but then it really depends on her professional circumstances (some companies would be willing to lose somebody for few months sabatical rather than lose them permanently).

If I were able to organise job offers for her through connected friends, would that be an easy route to get her here?

You've got some real connections if you can arrange for valid Tier 2 license sponsors to just offer her a job. Whether that is 'easy' or not probably depends on your own definition of easy. Check out our Tier 2 forum for typical inquiries and pitfalls. Naturally you can read up on all the docs and requirements on the UK.gov website.

Or if I set up a short college course for her that supports tier 5?

I think you might have meant Tier 4, and again you must know a lot of well-placed people really well. Depends on the course and her reason for taking the course among other things. There are some notable financial requirements.

Really grasping at any method of getting us together at this point, as otherwise there is the potential for us to be apart for another 7-8 months.

You're young. Believe me. It does seem like forever, but it really isn't. With proper planning and a well grounded set of documentation and supporting evidence, you can make that up and much much more later on.

[noajthan]

I am looking for any alternative ways to get her here for a period of several months, and as soon as possible as things are very difficult for her there at the moment. Would a placement with a charity through tier 5 sponsorship be a relatively simple, quick and successful route to go down? Or would she face the same level of scrutinisation with regards to the ensuring of her return to her country (which is our intent anyway)? She is currently working, and if she could get extended leave with her employer, would that be sufficient evidence to show she intended to return, rather than if she left her employment? If I were able to organise job offers for her through connected friends, would that be an easy route to get her here? Or if I set up a short college course for her that supports tier 5?

Really grasping at any method of getting us together at this point, as otherwise there is the potential for us to be apart for another 7-8 months.

Thankyou for your time.

Visa applications and job offers need to be real.

Yes, T5 is scrutinised - as it is often abused.
Pre-selelction for T2 won't fly as there is the RLMT hurdle to overcome.
And if contemplating being a student it should be for study purposes not just a handy trip to UK.