overstayer duped me in to having baby

[babyfather]

hello
this is my first post after reading on this website for over 6 months,
I have a problem, I met a girl 2 years ago and was a bit of a whirlwind marriage, I knew she was on a visa as I found some of her paperwork and passport and she said that she had two years left on it and I believed her, after one year of a relationship we decided to get married at out local temple. it was then I stated to listen to my inner voice as she said she had all the right paperwork but didn't bring anything to the temple . once I got there , there was a local photographer who said he was hired to take the wedding photos, the 1st time I heard any of this, as my suspicions grew and grew and after some digging around on this website I found out that she may have tried to dupe me in to marriage and while I was trying to find her immigration status all paperwork had disappeared , but by. stroke of luck she had made photocopies of passport and visa and she had scanned them to a memory card so I found out she was an overstayer of 3 years. within a month we had broken up and she said that she was scared to tell me and thats why she had done and as I was a father to two other young children who's mum had passed away to sucide , I just wanted to have a normal life and some resemblance to a normal family for me and my kids. I looked up that the photographer may of been brought in to strengthen her her home office case but have heard conflicting information . any way 3 months later she tell me that she pregnant and the baby is mine even though she told me that the doctor said she would never have a baby after a few miscarriages ( the duping aspect ) anyway I thought this may be my 2nd chance and I took it but her behaviour from when she moved back in was totally changed and she was withdrawn and always staying in the bedroom and totally distancing herself from me and the kids, I put it down to hormones and was just thinking about the positive . so baby was born in nov 2015 and she left us in feb 2016 saying that she didn't want to be with us . after trying to sort this mess out I have now finally realised that she may just wanted to stay in the country by having a baby . the penny has finally dropped . in the time since feb 2016 I have tried mediation , she didn't turn up , couple concealing ,she didn't turn up and even days out with her and the kids but she cancelled.

I turned a blind eye since I thought I can't give up on my kid, but now after only seeing the child on average once a month in a cafe close to where she lives 2 hours away from for only a round a hour at a time I also hearing that I wasn't the first guy she tried to hooked up with and that she been sleeping around, I dine some calculations and it is possible that the baby may not be mine due to a break up 9 months before.

recently in the last 6 weeks I have asked her for a dan test of the child but she just keep on refusing , first saying that she did send the kit off and then when try to administrated it myself she get all fidgety and say that she will do it herself later and then just delays the whole things, I now in serious doubts that the baby is mine and she is using a delay tactic so her home office case gets seen to. now my name is on the birth certificate and I am a British citizen but we are not legally married as no paperwork was ever signed but married in a holy room of the local temple.

I had always said that I was going to move to Spain when was with her for the sunny climate and I have family there and I still intend to do that in the next 18 months for at least 18 months work contract and my questions are these

if baby is mine then will she automatically get leave to stay here ?/

even if I move to Spain ? with or with out the child

if I fight for custody as she is homeless living with friends with no job and work and living in a overcrowded place will I have a good chance because I am the sole carer of my two children for the last 5 years since my youngest was 6months old I have looked after both of them.

I been told I should get a contact order and then get 50/50 residence order then apply for full custody as I haven't seen baby regular for 10 months, I would like to take baby with me to Spain as I do see my self living there full time and maybe getting married again within the next two years if a suitable wife can be found , god willing .

if I do get custody and go to Spain will she get deported back to India ?

now while I want our child to have both parents in his life I don't like the feeling that I been duped and she taken advantage of the situation so that she can stay in the uk. I know that she wants nothing do with me but fails to understand that I have equal right as a father and I am in a very good position to be the main carer . I think she feels as my name is on the birth certificate she will get her remain to leave , is this correct

and as I know her home office case has been going on for at least 6 months . will it be called up before I can do anything about it

if the child is mine I will take full responsibilities but will not say if I will stay in the uk so what will happen to case if I do stay in the uk but have the child staying with me full time and she pops over for visits

if the child isn't mine pending dna

is there a way for me to stall her application until dna can be done. before its too late and she goes underground

can she get her deported back if it was possible , I know its bit harsh but just weighing up possibilities options and is it possible that she can get her deported back and I keep the child here as she has been a overstayer for 3 years and more.

also it possible to send all this info to a immigration judge for him to weigh up themselves so their have a little history of the case . I do feel a very bitter taste in my mouth but just want the best for our child , if it comes down to him being with his mum and moving from home to home and surfing rather than being comfortable with me and my extended family and his half brother and sister then choose the latter , I am in much better position to offer him so much more in life and that would be better for his well being, and I only say this in confidence that I am a stay at home dad for the last 5 years and done it by myself, no grandmas here or nannies.

anyway thank you for listening and please any comment would be great especially on the questions raised

[noajthan]

Welcome - and thanks for sharing; there are plenty of life lessons for all now that you have unburdened yourself.
However not all can be solved here in this immigration forum.

A child of uncertain parentage does not lead to automatic right to stay in UK.
Nothing guaranteed in immigration game.

Suggest forget about ex-partner's future - let UKVI in its wisdom take care of that.
Deported or not deported etc etc its nothing to do with you.
The wheel of immigration karma will eventually turn.

Mom faffing about and claiming unable to perform test on herself etc etc won't get her far.

[Frontier Mole]

Some points to consider
Inform UKVI that you are NOT the father. This forces her down the route of having to prove you are. A named father on a birth certificate is basically meaningless in terms of immigration. However distasteful this tactic may be it gets the ball rolling and gets you an answer on the actual parentage of the child.
If the child is yours then you have to decide what route to take thereafter.

[secret.simon]

Elaborating on Frontier Mole's post, the rules for proving paternity for the purposes of British nationality law changed on 1st September 2015. If the child was born after 1st September 2015 and is claiming British nationality through a British father not married to the mother, a DNA test from specified government recognised laboratories is required. Merely being named on the birth certificate is not sufficient.

See Proving paternity in British nationality law: rule change on effect of birth certificates.

Also report the change of circumstance of the overstayer to the UKV&I.

[Obie]

How can he know he is not the father if he has not done a DNA test.

Unless of course OP is saying he never had sexual encounter with this woman, which is not something i have had him say.

The first step is to establish the paternity of the child, to keep the OP's mind at rest that he is not abandoning his offspring.

[babyfather]

hi
thanks to everyone for looking , I can see that the first steps would be the the end and go from there, As I going to Spain to live there full time what would this do to her immigration cased if I am the father, would she be deported back as the British father ( me ) would be a resident of uk. Also would I have a good chance to take baby with me to Spain and have full custody and if so would she still get deported back to India. I under stand that things are changing but I want to take the right course, I am pretty sure baby is min but do need the dna test for rest of mind.

I am statring to feel the bitter on how i have been treated and do I want to deal with some one like that for the next 18 years, I rather take control and go for full custody if it does come to a choice or me or her then me it will be .


thanks again

[Casa]

You can't just take off for Spain with the baby. Custody needs to be decided by a family court.

[Obie]

I am very much for father's right, but I am strongly against the idea of depriving a child of their maternal parent, unless that parent is acting unreasonably to the other parent by refusing contact, or she poses a risk to the health and wellbeing of that child.

You can be a good father to your child without needing to take him to Spain.

[Frontier Mole]

I had not become aware that this had become a family conciliation site or a Relate or a parenting site....
Immigration advice and help is what we kind of deal in normally.

If the woman of dubious virtue and immigration status is attempting to remain in the U.K. of the basis of the child then that has to be tested. If she is refusing to do a DNA test then let that be the route to her removal. It would seem that she is less than credible or genuine in her dealings with the OP.

If the DNA test proves the OP is the father then that gives all concerned other options.

Until such time the DNA test is completed the whole position is conjecture and speculation.

[noajthan]

+1

Case cannot rely on whims and caprices of fidgety mom getting around to DNA when she feels like it.
And for sake of child noone should be hauling him/her round the world like a package before child's day in court.

[babyfather]

hi everyone

thanks for all your help so far, there are a few niggling aspects and I am feeling different about my feeling towards her and bay everyday.

if dna test conclude that baby is mine , can I apply for custody of the said child and then go to Spain with my family, would I win the case since

I have been a single father of two for 5years
I have financial stability
I have a girlfriend in Spain who I am moving in with
I like to think I have more to offer the child in experience and stability
and last of. all if it was a choice between me or her then I would like it to be me

I don't want to put off my plans for Spain as it my chance for a better life and a better life for my children.
if I stay here and go through the court for a residence order and get , say , 4 visits a months then I don't want to feel resentment towards my child with the overstayer. not saying to will happen but I don't see any way that I can have a normal relationship with the overstayer . she doesn't allow me to see my child for more than an hour twice a month .

and who's to say that she just won't get remarried once she gets approval to stay in the uk and then get me out of the kids life by moving over 400 miles away and then I stuck back in hopeless situation.

my work in Spain asa well as my girlfriends relationship is very important one as it brings stability tom two children who's mum has passed .

I know I may get some grief for this post but if I have to make a choice then I have to give the chance to my children who only have one parent.

I only say this as I have checked the dna company account and now she has logged the samples ,
and should have a answer within 3-4 days


if I do get custody and fight for it and success comes and I go to Spain what will happen to the mum , will she be deported. on the rules that govern immigration will she get it

also if don't do a paternity test and go to Spain will she get permission to stay in th yuk , I understand new rules have come in to place in nov 2016.

do I have to give a paternity test and if I refuse will I be ordered to do by a judge.

agin I only mentioned this has the overstayer now is playing nice and telling me about the dna and now wants me to get a paaosport for baby , again who's to say she want go back to India and get married and then come back 6 months later and I be phased out of the picture , I undertsand a father has full rights as I have been to court twice before but having rights once a week and being involved is a completely different thing , please please I understand what I am saying .

its a bad situation but want to know before I'm in it for the long run .

thanks for all your help

[noajthan]

Your only obligation is to report mom to UKVI; her future is then in UKVI hands and you may never know what happens.

The rest is more for a family court and not in scope for this forum.
Good luck.

[Obie]

Your only obligation is to report mom to UKVI; her future is then in UKVI hands and you may never know what happens.

How did an obligation arise? If I am correct in my reading, he never sponsored any application for her. Or am I missing something.

[Obie]

hi everyone

thanks for all your help so far, there are a few niggling aspects and I am feeling different about my feeling towards her and bay everyday.

if dna test conclude that baby is mine , can I apply for custody of the said child and then go to Spain with my family, would I win the case since

I have been a single father of two for 5years
I have financial stability
I have a girlfriend in Spain who I am moving in with
I like to think I have more to offer the child in experience and stability
and last of. all if it was a choice between me or her then I would like it to be me

I don't want to put off my plans for Spain as it my chance for a better life and a better life for my children.
if I stay here and go through the court for a residence order and get , say , 4 visits a months then I don't want to feel resentment towards my child with the overstayer. not saying to will happen but I don't see any way that I can have a normal relationship with the overstayer . she doesn't allow me to see my child for more than an hour twice a month .

and who's to say that she just won't get remarried once she gets approval to stay in the uk and then get me out of the kids life by moving over 400 miles away and then I stuck back in hopeless situation.

my work in Spain asa well as my girlfriends relationship is very important one as it brings stability tom two children who's mum has passed .

I know I may get some grief for this post but if I have to make a choice then I have to give the chance to my children who only have one parent.

I only say this as I have checked the dna company account and now she has logged the samples ,
and should have a answer within 3-4 days


if I do get custody and fight for it and success comes and I go to Spain what will happen to the mum , will she be deported. on the rules that govern immigration will she get it

also if don't do a paternity test and go to Spain will she get permission to stay in th yuk , I understand new rules have come in to place in nov 2016.

do I have to give a paternity test and if I refuse will I be ordered to do by a judge.

agin I only mentioned this has the overstayer now is playing nice and telling me about the dna and now wants me to get a paaosport for baby , again who's to say she want go back to India and get married and then come back 6 months later and I be phased out of the picture , I undertsand a father has full rights as I have been to court twice before but having rights once a week and being involved is a completely different thing , please please I understand what I am saying .

its a bad situation but want to know before I'm in it for the long run .

thanks for all your help

I will say establish if the child is your's and if he or she is, then that child is British irrespective of a passport application.

Whatever the mothe choose to do is her problem and the Home office will address her .

[noajthan]

Your only obligation is to report mom to UKVI; her future is then in UKVI hands and you may never know what happens.

How did an obligation arise? If I am correct in my reading, he never sponsored any application for her. Or am I missing something.

After a whirlwind marriage OP came to believe he had been duped into marriage and into having a child so that mom could stay in UK.

Classic indicators of an immigration crime.
A law-abiding concerned citizen could be reasonably expected to report their suspicions and/or evidence of such behaviour and so enable concerned authorities to determine the facts of any actual or suspected immigration-related crime.

[Obie]

No I totally disagree. Under the 1971 Act , marrying someone is not an immigration crime, it is a human right.

This woman has not even told the OP about her immigration status, she has pretended as if she has status in the UK, so the question of using him for status is a suspicion of her motives, but there is no indication that OP has supported any immigration status for her in any way.

OP needs to establish if the child is his. He is entitled to that. Once established he can do whatever he wishes.

So far I have seen nothing in the post to indicates she has done anything criminal. The marriage may be valid. It is not voidable as it appears it has been consummated. There is a child, which may be OP''s. She has not made any application that OP has sponsored in any way. As you will very well know, unlike under the EEA Regulations, simply marrying to British national does not confer status. One needs to apply. Therefore marrying OP and giving made to a child does not confer rights.

It follow that, I can't see any obligation in law for OP to inform Home Office.

[noajthan]

OP is clearly in torment; the only option he has is to report his concerns about the individual and so gain closure rather than being left in a suspended state of frustration and helplessness.

Whether or not authorities investigate the case in any shape or form and whether or not action is taken in relation to mom's statuIs (whoever she turns out to be and whatever that status is) is out of his hands (and UKVI at least won't inform him).

OP is in no way judge, jury and executioner. There is still little or no redress and only sobering and hard life lessons in this for OP.

[Obie]

With the utmost respect, I believe you are entitled to express those view.

What I was having difficulty grappling with, is the "Obligation on OP" and "Immigration Crime" previously mentioned.

I thought there were aspect of OP''s post that I had misread.

[Frontier Mole]

There has been a temple marriage only?
If that is the case there is no officially recognised marriage I am assuming as there was not a formal registered marriage.
As an overstayer she could not access an official marriage as that would have required an authority from the Home Office which would have been dismissed pretty quickly I am guessing.
This is not even a marriage of convenience as it would not qualify as a marriage under immigration terms.
So that would leave it solely as a route to have a child and then apply for status through that route.
When exactly month / year was the child born?

[CR001]

There has been a temple marriage only?
If that is the case there is no officially recognised marriage I am assuming as there was not a formal registered marriage.
As an overstayer she could not access an official marriage as that would have required an authority from the Home Office which would have been dismissed pretty quickly I am guessing.
This is not even a marriage of convenience as it would not qualify as a marriage under immigration terms.
So that would leave it solely as a route to have a child and then apply for status through that route.
When exactly month / year was the child born?

by babyfather » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:52 am
........so baby was born in nov 2015 and she left us in feb 2016 saying that she didn't want to be with us .

[Frontier Mole]

Thanks Char

[CR001]

Thanks Char

You're welcome. Had to look and re-read that lengthy first post myself

[Frontier Mole]

So clearly the Nationlity Act in force from 10/09/2015 applies.
Therefore unless the DNA results show he is the father then she has nothing to rely on to maintain her status in the UK.
Unless of course the actual father if not the OP has UK status she can rely on.

[babyfather]

hi everyone

thanks for all your input , it has helped me in this situation that I am in. it has also dawned on me that there is a child involved and the main priority should be that child, on the assumationthat the child is mine I will be taking steps for a resident order which puts me in court for around April time I hope. in the mean time I will continue to see baby and travel the 250 round trip miles once a week/fortnight to see my son, I need to think long term and strengthen my case for the residence order and if it is granted to me I will follow on my plans to go Spain with the baby.

now my question are

if baby goes Spain will the mother be deported as there is no reason for her to be in the uk
is there any way she can stay in the uk and for what reason

she has set forward a case to the home office at this moment after investigation a bit and I believe she think a birth certificate with my name on it and a dna sample that I will have to provide in the family court will be enough for her to provide the proof that baby is now British and her home office case can go forward.

smart play I suppose. all circumstantial of course .

now if I don't go forward with the family case and just go to Spain

will I be order to supply a dna though the immigration/home office courts .
will she need my dna sample to prove British dna in baby ( since baby was born in last few day of nov 2015 )
if I don't give it will that stall her case and she be deported back to India with baby in tow with her.

I also am happy to report her to the courts and let them know how I feel but whee do I do this??

again thank you for all the information supplied but these questions above are the final option that I need to know.

regards

[Casa]

I think that you've been given sufficient advice as far as immigration issues are concerned. We're simply going around in circles now with questions about paternity and custody, which isn't appropriate on this forum.

Sort out the DNA as a priority and then seek advice from a solicitor specialising in family law. Good luck.