VAF4A Spouse and Child Dependant

[Londoner007]

Hi,

I trust your advise / opinions on this board which I have been reading for a while. Mods apologies for any ignorance and lack of knowledge.

My query appears to be complex and I am getting mixed advise from solicitors, some saying it is straightforward and others seem confused themselves.

My issue is with whether to:

Q1. Complete two VAF4A and Appendix 2 forms (Spouse + Child) and apply

or

Q2. Apply for First British Passport for child from UK Visa Application Centre in Sylhet, who deal with Overseas British passport applications. And then do VAF4 forms for Spouse only

As for Q1. In 5 months time I will be able to meet all criteria to satisfy ECO for both spouse and child's entries

As for Q2. This is where it is complex.

I was born in Bangladesh in 1984 to a father who was a "British Subject Citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies" (Exact words from his passport).
Arrived in UK 1990 with my siblings and mother after father deceased. Mother's passport included our names. We arrived with "Certificate of Entitlement to the Right of Abode" sticker in a Bangladeshi passport.
When I turned 10 got First British passport which said "British Citizen" and it continues to say so now.

Now for the life of me and others cannot work out if I am able to pass on my citizenship.
When I inquired with Liverpool they stated that "you may be a British Citizen by Decent" they were not fully sure.

I understand that it can take at least 8 months to process First Passport if eligible, also it may provide more rights and easier to get into school etc for the child. I do not mind the wait, but would like to know which forms to fill in and what options are available and would the right route to take?

Many thanks

[Obie]

If your child was born overseas then he or she is not a British citizen.

[CR001]

Not sure why you have started two topics with the same question in two different sub forums.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/britis ... l#p1453870

[Londoner007]

CR001 - apologies about that. I did post only the citizenship part on the other thread didn't realise it is against rules.

Obie - I spoke to Home Office on phone and they stated that I will be an BC by decent. Also that I can apply to register the child abroad as BC as he was not automatically born a BC. They stated use for M1N and either send of from here or from abroad.

Is the M1N form actually the correct form to fill in, in this case?

Many thanks

[CR001]

Do you live in the UK? If yes, for how long and do you have proof of living in the UK?

[Londoner007]

CR001 - I have lived in the UK for 22 years. I have had my first British passport which says British Citizen since 1996.

Many thanks

[Londoner007]

Just to add - I am permanently settled here and live as a typical londoner I have proof of address etc raging from school days to now. Have permanent job as a Senior Mechanic.

I am being directed by to fill up form M1N under section 3(2). Is this the correct.

Thanks

[CR001]

If you are BC by descent and have evidence of residing in the UK for 3 years prior to your child's birth outside the UK, you can apply on MN1 under Section 3(2) of the nationality act. See page 10 in the link below.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... y_2017.pdf

[Londoner007]

3.1 – 3.2 You need identify only one parent with British citizenship by descent on which to base an application under section 3(2) or 3(5). For a section 3(2) application this parent’s mother or father must have held British citizenship otherwise than by descent, or if they are dead would have held British citizenship otherwise than by descent but for their death.

My father (parent) was a “British Subject Citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies” before he passed away. Does this count as British citizenship otherwise than by descent for him?

We do not have any other proof explaining his citizenship apart from his passport which stated "British Subject Citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies" until cancelled after his death. Can I explain in cover letter that the passport is the only proof of grandfather’s citizenship?

Many thanks for continued support

[CR001]

The alternative is to bring child on a child settlement visa and after 3 years residence apply under section 3(5).

Your father was not British otherwise than descent if he was not born in the UK.

[Londoner007]

It is very confusing! - My father's Father came to UK and brought my Father to the UK. There is like 3 generations of us!

Does this all mean 3(2) is totally out of question even if explained in cover letter. I have been told by someone who was in similar situation that they were able to get BC registration for their daughter under 3(2) after explaining missing docs in cover letter.

Many thanks

[CR001]

You can give it a go if you wish but you do lose the application fee if unsuccessful.

[Londoner007]

Ok thank you.

Would the alternative SET(F) cause any issues when applying for VAF4A for spouse. Also, would financial requirement of £22,400 need to be shown if going SET(F) route, as compared to only £18,600 if BC registration was successful.

[CR001]

She cannot apply for Set(F), she doesn't have UK residence to qualify for this. This application can only be made in the UK and is for ILR not an entry clearance visa.

You need to show £22,400pa for the spouse/child settlement visa if wife and child apply for entry clearance.

[Londoner007]

Ok, thanks for all advise. I think will go for MN1 and see what happens. If MN1 gets rejected then will have to go via the Spouse and Child settlement route, which I believe means filling up two VAF4A forms.

[Obie]

Section 3(2) may succeed. It all depends on your parents status.

I hope provision are available for biometric to be done overseas.

You may be required to do a paternity test also.

[Londoner007]

Thanks for the input Obie. My Fathers status was "British Subject- Citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies". This was stated on his last passport before he passed away in 1984.

Biometrics provision in Bangladesh is very good and available. Even Home Office told me to apply for MN1 after they said I am BC by Descent. I did not realise it goes so deep down to great grandparents. Surely, they can use some discretion in this situation. Just really confused what to do, even solicitors tell different things. my only hope is here.

[Obie]

If they are British, then it clearly makes not sense to apply for entry clearance for them.

However if you need to be careful, as £936 is a lot of money.

[Londoner007]

That is true it is a lot of money. But if there is a chance of getting Child Registered as a BC it would be worth it. I just keep getting conflicting answers from everywhere some saying no chance and others saying unsure.

[Obie]

I will need to understand the circumstances of your father citizenship before i can say for certain that it will success.

Usually if there is a doubt in my very liberal mind, it is not a positive sign.

[Londoner007]

1. Father came and worked and settled in UK around 1960's who I believe was brought to UK by his father. As far as I am aware his father was also settled in Uk. But have no proof of this.
2. Father had passport which stated British Subject of UK colonies
3. Father passed away 1984, no other documentation available apart from father last and final passport from 1984.
4. We entered into UK 1991 with ROA certificate stamped on Bangladeshi passport.
5. When I turned 10 I got first British passport with BC written as nationality.
6. No record or idea of how father and his father became british subjects. it's going back in such times that no other info is available from anyone about their full route to citizenship.
7. My mother still has Bangladeshi passport with ROA and is able to renew this using fathers expired passport etc.

[Obie]

I believe one need to look at the position of Bangladesh and whether it had Separated at the time of your father''s birth, whether your father secured his rights as a result of being born in the colonies or by descent, through his father.

One will need to dig into the British nationality act 1948 and the status of Bangladesh at the time of his birth.

[Londoner007]

True. I have almost decided to go for MN1 and state that I am applying using legislations 3(2) and 3(1) discretionary part. I will try my best to plead with the HO to register using their discretionary in the Extra information at the end.

I spoke to few solicitors who want ridicilous money for what seems just to write few lines in last section. If it gets refused I suppose I can ask solicitor to write letter for administrative review.

What are your thoughts.

[Obie]

There are no administrative review, if refused you will need to pursue Judicial review. Good to make a coherent case to give you a fighting chance of a JR.

Please note that unlike 3 (1), 3 (2) is a mandatory provision, and therefore the Secretary of State has no desctetion to issue under it.

You need to establish that on a balance of probabilities, the requirements are met.

[Londoner007]

I suppose the only other alternative is just to go for child settlement visa via VAF4A route :'(

Apart from higher financial requirements to be met etc are there any other implications