ILR Refused-SOC-2119 Need help

[sushant13]

Dear Guru,
Need urgent guidence:
Applied for ILR on January-2017. It has been refused on the basis of 35 K salary requirement and my RESEARCH ASSOCIATE POSITION is only for Informatician and Bioinformatician.


Joined company with my PSW visa, than got Tier 2 general PBS visa under with my employer and than extended again under SOC code 2119. No RLMT was taken as it was extension. But before extension the job came under shortage occupation list and job was only for Informatician and bioinformatician.

Case worker also accepted I have been paid over experienced salary rate. But she/he has not at all considered that my occupation falls under PhD level.

I work in a diagnostics company as Research associate, but the case worker mentioned that Research associate job title is for informatician and Bio-informatician. This was not mentioned when a COS was assigned for my extension.

The case worker has asked for an Administrative review.
Please I need suggestions- should I go for Admin review or I reapply in some other part of UK. My current visa expires in september -2017

Please help me, do I need to change my job title to Scientist or operational research scientist if reserach associate is for Informatician and bio-informatician.

Please suggest what is the best option for me.

[manci]

for the requirements for ILR see Part 10 of the T2 policy guidance.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... 1_2016.pdf

SOC code 2119 is for PhD level jobs. The job title is less important than the job description. For examples of job tasks and related job titles see:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... l_2015.pdf
also see Appendix J of the immigration rules for related job titles:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration ... illed-work

PhD level jobs are exempt from the 35k income threshold. Check what the job description was in your last CoS. If there is any ambiguity may be it is worth going for an administrative review by the employer clarifying that your job falls indeed under SOC 2119. Watch the time limit for requesting an AR.

SOC code 2119 is and was not on the shortage occupation list in the past 6 years but one of its pre-conversion versions (from SOC 2000to SOC 2010) may have been.

what is your current salary and hours of work per week?

What was the exact wording of the reasons for the refusal?

[sushant13]

Dear Guru,
Thanks for your reply.
Some more words for my case:
From 18/01/2010 to 12/02/2012 I was on Post study work visa- Joined my company on 28/06/2010 .
Got my first Tier 2 visa on 23/11/2011 with SOC code 2112 and than extended in 23rd/09/2014 under SOC code 2119 as SOC2000 was changed to 2010.
But in 6th April 2014 the SOC 2119 had only Bioinformatics and informatics jobs.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... pril14.pdf

During my second extension, UKBA had not requested my company to go for any RLMT as it was extension and I fall under 2119 category.

The exact words in the letter are :
To qualify for ILR to remain as a Tier 2 general mogrant.
If the applicant does not meet the requirments below, the applciation will be refused:
(d) The pay in (c) (ii)(2) or (3) above must:
(v) be at least equal to the appropriate rate for the job as stated in the code of practice in Appendix J.
(Vi) be at least:
(1) 35,000 if the date is on or after 6 April 2016.
In view of the fact you have provided a letter from your employer which confirms you receive an annual salary of £27000 per annum, you are required to meet the experienced rate under the code of practise which si 27,200. Your work is 35 hours per week which is equivalent to 14.83 per hour, and the experienced rate is £13.41 per hour. It is accepted that you are paid above the experienced rate, however applciations for ILR dated to remain after 06 April 2016 need to meet minimum pay of £35,000. You are paid £14.83 an hour even if you were to work 39 hours your pay would only come to £30,075.24.
It has been considered that your SOC code 2119 falls under shortage occupation . Your job title is research associate and that shortage is for informatician and Bio-informatician.

Guru I think (bUT NEED YOU EXPERT OPINION) the case worker has not looked into the salary exemption and made the decision. Also he/she has no idea that I came from PSW to Tier 2 PBS and than extension thus I never needed RLMT as this was not a fresh application.

I had made an request for Admin review by stating that an error has been made and my job falls under 35000 K salary exemption.

Please need your view on the matter.
Thanks.

[manci]

I have nothing to add to what was said previously. As SOC code 2119 jobs are PhD level IMHO they are excluded from the £35k threshold.

See Immigration Rule 245HF(f):
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration ... sed-system

Wait for the decision on the AR and please let the forum know the outcome.

[paradoxical]

There is actually no need to go into discussion of whether and if/when the job was in the shortage occupation list. The fact that 2119 is occupations skilled to PhD level should suffice to allow exemption from the 35k rule. Please update the forum once you have a decision, good luck!

[nithin.kriz]

Hello Sushant13.. is your case resolved? please can you update?/

[sushant13]

Hello,
BAD NEWS.
Just received a call from my lawyer, he said my admin review was refused and it stated the same reasons but I will get the letter by tomorrow afternoon.

Will update with complete details by tomorrow evening.

Did not expected that salary exemption was not taken into consideration.

[nithin.kriz]

@Sushant.. sorry to hear that mate.. Gets me worried as well.. The guidance still excempts PHD job codes from the 35K salary limit for ILR.. Have you received the Admin review response letter?

[sushant13]

Nitin- Sorry to post late reply, Yes i received the letter with no change in decision and they elaborated the reasons. I am still not able to understand the statements they made in my Admin review, neither my company or my lawyer. Its confusing, they are not at all considering my Job under PhD level exemption even though I applied in SOC code 2119. I personally feel its deliberate attempt on part of UKBA.
well adding few lines from my admin review which are Important to take note of:

Based on paragraph 245HF (d)(vi)(1) only stops being requirement if the circumstances in 245HF (e) (f) and (g) apply.On review paragraph 245 (e) does not apply to you as you have never held a leave under work permit holder and your COS was not issued prior to 6april 2011.Paragraph 245 HF (F) also fails to apply as the job you are employed to neither falls on the PhD level occupations. Thus we maintain that your employment as a Natural and social science professional under SOC code 2119 is not exempt from minimum salary requirement.

I am very confused why these rules are applied in my case.
Anyways, My lawyer asked me to discuss increase in salary with my company, which i am not sure about.

Need suggestions:
1) UKBA has not given option for Judicial review: Do they give or I can go ahead with it ?

2) I will complete 9 years in UK this september 2017 and have valid visa till Sep-2017, need one more year for LONG TERM RESIDENCY - So it will be 5 years + 7 months on Tier 2 till sep-2017: Can I extend my tier 2 visa for another year or 2.
I have seen that you can stay on Tier 2 for only 6 years and than its cooling off period.

Does cooling off period applies to my situation ?

This is very confusing as some say that cooling of is only applicable to Tier 2 ICT.

Nitin: Is your case similar to my case ? if yes please discuss with your company or lawyer.

Hope to get some suggestions .

Thanks,
Sushant.

[vaibhavg18mau]

@Sushant.. sorry to hear that mate.. Gets me worried as well.. The guidance still excempts PHD job codes from the 35K salary limit for ILR.. Have you received the Admin review response letter?

Are you in the same quote? If so have you applied for ILR?

[paradoxical]

Paragraph 245 HF (F) also fails to apply as the job you are employed to neither falls on the PhD level occupations. Thus we maintain that your employment as a Natural and social science professional under SOC code 2119 is not exempt from minimum salary requirement.

I do not understand this bit. It is very clear that SOC code 2119 is under PhD level occupations unless the case worker thinks that you are under a different SOC code ??
For the readers, can you please confirm that in your original job requirement, it did say that PhD is a requirement and you have a PhD. The decision still does not make sense but just trying to get a sense of why the case worker did not consider you to be exempt based on your SOC code of 2119.

[Frontier Mole]

SOC 2112 remained as such after the Change from SOC 2000 to SOC 2010 according to the guidance. Not that makes any real difference as it would still remain as a PhD level role.
I am failing to see how they can claim that it does not get an exemption as it plainly should.
Despite the AR refusal I would seek an additional review through the customer complaint procedures.

[nithin.kriz]

Nitin- Sorry to post late reply, Yes i received the letter with no change in decision and they elaborated the reasons. I am still not able to understand the statements they made in my Admin review, neither my company or my lawyer. Its confusing, they are not at all considering my Job under PhD level exemption even though I applied in SOC code 2119. I personally feel its deliberate attempt on part of UKBA.
well adding few lines from my admin review which are Important to take note of:

Based on paragraph 245HF (d)(vi)(1) only stops being requirement if the circumstances in 245HF (e) (f) and (g) apply.On review paragraph 245 (e) does not apply to you as you have never held a leave under work permit holder and your COS was not issued prior to 6april 2011.Paragraph 245 HF (F) also fails to apply as the job you are employed to neither falls on the PhD level occupations. Thus we maintain that your employment as a Natural and social science professional under SOC code 2119 is not exempt from minimum salary requirement.

I am very confused why these rules are applied in my case.
Anyways, My lawyer asked me to discuss increase in salary with my company, which i am not sure about.

Need suggestions:
1) UKBA has not given option for Judicial review: Do they give or I can go ahead with it ?

2) I will complete 9 years in UK this september 2017 and have valid visa till Sep-2017, need one more year for LONG TERM RESIDENCY - So it will be 5 years + 7 months on Tier 2 till sep-2017: Can I extend my tier 2 visa for another year or 2.
I have seen that you can stay on Tier 2 for only 6 years and than its cooling off period.

Does cooling off period applies to my situation ?

This is very confusing as some say that cooling of is only applicable to Tier 2 ICT.

Nitin: Is your case similar to my case ? if yes please discuss with your company or lawyer.

Hope to get some suggestions .

Thanks,
Sushant.

Hi Sushant, Yes I am in the same job code currently and visa expiring in next year. However i am eligible to apply ILR now as i have completed 5 years on tier 2.

Nearly 3 years with an old employer (original tier 2 and an extension - during extension job code transitioned from 2321 to 2119)
Employer change in 2015 .. tier 2 approved under 2119 again as R&D scientist.

now i'm left unsure about what to do...

[nithin.kriz]

Paragraph 245 HF (F) also fails to apply as the job you are employed to neither falls on the PhD level occupations. Thus we maintain that your employment as a Natural and social science professional under SOC code 2119 is not exempt from minimum salary requirement.

I do not understand this bit. It is very clear that SOC code 2119 is under PhD level occupations unless the case worker thinks that you are under a different SOC code ??
For the readers, can you please confirm that in your original job requirement, it did say that PhD is a requirement and you have a PhD. The decision still does not make sense but just trying to get a sense of why the case worker did not consider you to be exempt based on your SOC code of 2119.

Hi paradoxical, I definitely have read somewhere that to be qualified for a PHD level job, you necessarily don't have to have a PHD.. just suitabily skilled.. unless the rules have changed.. Just came across the below case in the forum
http://www.immigrationboards.com/uk-tie ... l#p1460202

has the requirements changed ?

Gurus please advice...

[paradoxical]

Hi paradoxical, I definitely have read somewhere that to be qualified for a PHD level job, you necessarily don't have to have a PHD.. just suitabily skilled.. unless the rules have changed.. Just came across the below case in the forum


I am not sure about this. Others can shed further light on this, but if a job description says that a PhD is required, then a suitably qualified person will be one who has a PhD (unless the job description says "PhD or x amount of experience in y capacity etc.")

[sushant13]

Hi All,
sorry guys was trying to sort out things .

vaibhavg18mau did you applied for your ILR. Do you have any success ?

I discussed with a Barrister for my visa situation and she asked me to do a fresh application. According to her the decision is completely wrong .


Dont know which way to go.

Please if someone can suggest something.

[nithin.kriz]

hi sushant,
any progress on your case? i havent applied for ILR. I am looking at the 10 year route instead.

[mql1985]

I read somewhere too that PhD level jobs don't necessarily require a PhD degree, the code is the only thing that matters. sushant13, do you have a PhD degree? Maybe HO interpret it as PhD level job=having a PhD+doing PhD level job

[Meysam]

Hi Guys,

Someone may find this useful.

I came across this post which I think is a similar case:
uk-tier-2-employer-sponsored-visas/tier ... l#p1477740

I've messaged her and she said her ilr application was successful. So I think Sushant's case is an exception (and bad luck perhaps).