birth certificat names don't match

[simonc591]

Hi,
I was hoping to get some thoughts about a complex query regarding my soon-to-be in-laws family, and who might be a British Citizen or one kind or another. I've done some research online, and it's damn complicated. I *think* I've got a good handle on it, but would welcome any pointers to anything I may need to research further.
Here's the facts, to the best I know right now. Some dates might be fuzzy.

Mother-inlaw (Bea) was born in Turks and Caicos in 1951 to a Bahamian father, and T&C mother.
Bea moved to the Bahamas and established permanent residency there prior to independence. During independence she became a Bahamian citizen.
She had two daughters in the Bahamas to Bahamian men, M & C. M & C are Bahamian Citizens & hold a Bahamian passport.

Bea then moved to Florida, married a man of Jamaican descent, and got US citizenship around 2014.

C has a daughter (8) to a Bahamian man, and now also lives in Florida, and is in the process of applying for US citizenship (which is a *long* **slow** process).

M married a Bahamian man (who had a British mother and Bahamian father) around 1997. Had two daughters born in the Bahamas in 1996 and 2003 respectively S (20) & I (13). The family moved to the UK in 2004. M, S & I have Indefinite Leave to Remain. M divorced her husband in 2011 & is marrying me this year

So, to the questions.

a) My research indicates that Bea is a British Citizen by virtue of her Turks and Caicos birth. even though this would have been renounced when she acquired Bahamian Citizenship during Bahamian independence, because she was T&C, not Bahamian this would fall under the "renunciation was necessary to enable the applicant to retain or acquire some other citizenship or nationality" rule.
Am I generally right here ?

b) If Bea is a British Citizen, does she have the right to live in the UK (I'm thinking Yes, as it's in relation to Turks and Caicos from the various government websites)

c) If Bea is a British What evidence does Bea need to get to a British Passport ? Tracking down birth certificates, and T&C passports may be tricky.

d) Does Bea's British Citizenship get passed on to any of Bea's children ? I'm thinking it does not, but we're looking for a route that would allow C and her child to come to the UK. Any suggestions here would be useful.

e) Once M and me are married, M & I will be applying for British Citizenship. I'm guessing that if Bea's British Citizenship is not passed on to M & C, that M will have to go down the regular Naturalization route, not the registration route. When we're applying, do we have to pay the full £1000+ fees for I, or is she included on automatically on M's application for no additional cost ?


Any thoughts or input welcome.
Thanks all.

[secret.simon]

Intriguing question. It is not nearly as straightforward as you think.

Have a read of the Bahamas Independence Act 1973 (as enacted), specifically Sections 2 & 3.

Normally, people acquiring Bahamanian citizenship would lose their CUKC citizenship (Section 2), but Bea would likely have been saved by Section 3(1)(a). The British Nationality Act 1981 would have changed her status to a British Dependent Territories citizen, with no right to reside in the UK. But the British Overseas Territories Act 2002 would have conferred full British citizenship on her again.

So, Bea would be a British citizen otherwise than by descent and her children M & C would be British citizens by descent.

To apply for a British passport, Bea would need to prove that she was born in the Turk and Caicos Islands before 1983. The TCI Registrar General website should be able to guide you on how to obtain Bea's birth certificate. M& C will require both Bea's birth certificate and their own certificate to prove their British citizenship by descent.

As M & C are British citizens by descent, they can not pass their British citizenship to their children. So while they can come and live in the UK, their non-British children and spouses will have to apply for visas just like spouses of other British citizens and M & C would need to meet the standard income requirements (earning a minimum of £18,600 per year for a spouse visa and £22, 600 for a spouse and one child visa, etc).

If I has already lived in the UK for three years, s/he is entitled to register as a British citizen under Section 3(5) using Form MN1. S/he would need the entire chain of birth certificates (Bea's, M's and I's own). So, there is no way around getting Bea's birth certificate. Indeed, everybody else's hinges on Bea's birth certificate.

[simonc591]

Thanks for the reply.

That is broadly in line with what my research has indicated.
Further investigation into the family roots have turned up that Bea moved to the Bahamas at age 6, without any kind of passport, and the entire process of getting Bahamian citizenship was probably not strictly correct but was all dealt with during independence.
Bea's father and mother were T&C, and Bea also has her T&C birth certificate.

The key question I can't find an answer to though is this.
Did Bea need to be a British Citizen (or British Dependent Territories citizen) at the time M & C were born for them to be British Citizens by descent ? I don't think M & C would have had the right to abode on 1st January 1983.
Or, is it enough that Bea is now a British Citizen otherwise than by descent, get her British Passport, then have C apply for British Citizen by descent

There's not much problem with M & I. They both have Indefinite Leave to Remain, although it might save me £1100 if she can apply as a citizen by descent not for naturalization.

[simonc591]

Ahh, I think I've found the relevant bit of info regarding Citizenship by descent for M & C

The guidance notes for the form [https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... r_2015.pdf ] UKM say

Requirments
[snip]
2) You would have become a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by descent if women had been able to pass on citizenship to their children in teh same way as men at the time of your birth; and."
[snip]

"You will meet the second requirement if at the time of your birth:
(a) Your mother was:
* born, adopted , naturalised or registered in the United Kingdom and Colonies; or
* a British subject before 1 January 1949 and was born in a British protectorate, protected state or United Kingdom trust territory; or
(b)[snip]
" (my emphasis)

So, it looks like we're close to kicking of an application on UKM for M or C to get the ball rolling

thanks for the help. I'll update the thread if/when anything happens.

[simonc591]

Hi,
I'm helping my mother-in-law establish she is a UK citizen by descent so that her daughters (one with ILR in the UK, and one not living in the UK but wants to do so) can become UK Citizens otherwise than by descent.

MiL was born in the Turks and Ciacos around 1952.

MiL's T&C birth certificate has the 3 fore-names in it.
H.... B.... D.... Ro............
MiL's old T&C passport has 2 fore-names in it
B..... D..... Ro.......

Daughter 1's birth certificate (issued by the Bahamas) has for Mothers Name
D..... Ro.........

Dauther 2's birth certificate (issued by the Bahamas) has a Mothers Name of
B.... D..... Ro.......

MiL has not currently applied for a UK passport.
My understanding is that Daughter 1 & 2 can use form UKM to apply to register.

What problems are the missing fore-names likely to cause, and what other evidence should we try to gather and present with the application ?

Thanks.

[secret.simon]

I'm helping my mother-in-law establish she is a UK citizen by descent so that her daughters (one with ILR in the UK, and one not living in the UK but wants to do so) can become UK Citizens otherwise than by descent.

It's the other way round. Your M-i-L is a British citizen otherwise than by descent.

I might have made a mistake in the advice that I had given earlier. I had forgotten that mothers could not pass on their British citizenship to their children till 1983. When were M & C born?

As regards Form UKM, neither M nor C can meet Requirement 3 on Page 5, which is that either the mother or one of the mother's parents was born in the UK (excluding colonies). So, it is possible that M & C do not qualify for citizenship by descent.

I apologise for getting your hopes up earlier. It is a complex field of law and I am not a lawyer, merely one who reads widely.