Tier 1 entrepreneur extension wrongly refused. AR advice req

[zimba]

Hi zimba,

Can I know how HO will calculate Employee StartDate?
a) In FPS states as 06/04/2016
b)Accountant says even employee start date is 01/04/2016 ,Money Soft Software will take default 06/04/2016 in FPS

Start date will be the date on the FPS report as that is the evidence.

If HO consider Employment From 01/09/2016 - to 04/03/2017 ?then it reaches 185 days (26 weeks 3 days) where i am safe.

Yes, that will be counted as 6 months of employment

[KNY]

Hi Zimba, thanks for your elaborate and informed explanations. I have one last question please, what difference will it make if i do a second application now or do it after AR?

[zimba]

Hi Zimba, thanks for your elaborate and informed explanations. I have one last question please, what difference will it make if i do a second application now or do it after AR?

Your section 3C ends if you submit a fresh application and any pending AR will be considered withdrawn.
However if you apply for AR, the section 3C continues until you hear back the AR's conclusion.

[Meesha]

Sorry to know about your refusal.
I think its better to apply for AR and prepare a fresh application meantime with December payslips.
Good luck

[KNY]

Thanks.
I am planning to apply for the AR today citing failure to use transitional arrangement as prescribed by the guidance ( job creation of 4 workers for 6 months each) and evidential flexibility ( Paragraph 245AA of the Immigration rules) ( he is supposed to ask for another set of Nov payslips if he did not find the one on file).
Zimba and other Gurus, please help review before submission.

[zimba]

How evidential flexibility will be argued ?? You failed to submit required evidence and they will not ask for the missing documents. That is not how evidential flexibility works.
You tried to score points for jobs until 30/11 but did you send the payslips covering until 30/11 ??? If not, you really do NOT have case to argue as the case worker made the correct decision as your evidence was missing to cover the entire period

[KNY]

Who said i failed to submit evidence up till November? The evidence was corroborated with Pay slips, RTI submissions, FPS submissions and Accountant letter covering June to November, 2016 respectively.

The immigration policy regarding further submission of documents states as follows:

245AA. Documents not submitted with applications
(a) Where Part 6A or any appendices referred to in Part 6A state that specified documents must be provided, the Entry Clearance Officer, Immigration Officer or the Secretary of State will only consider documents that have been submitted with the application, and will only consider documents submitted after the application where they are submitted in accordance with subparagraph (b).
(b) If the applicant has submitted specified documents in which:
(i) Some of the documents in a sequence have been omitted (for example, if one bank statement from a series is missing);

So how will i not be able to argue evidential flexibility?

[zimba]

If he cannot find it, he will not ask for it ! If you sent them, you should argue that in AR

[KNY]

Okay-many thanks.Please i don't know if you can help out with this. There is no reference number on my decision letter and i need to quote one on the AR. My initial application was approved out of country so i do not have a biometric card number to quote. Will i be right to quote the initial visa number please?

[zimba]

Okay-many thanks.Please i don't know if you can help out with this. There is no reference number on my decision letter and i need to quote one on the AR. My initial application was approved out of country so i do not have a biometric card number to quote. Will i be right to quote the initial visa number please?

Do you have your biometric letter ?

[KNY]

yes i do- Many thanks Ziba, there is a case ID /reference number there.

[KNY]

Urgent help please especially Zimba.

My timeline recap is this:
Applied-30/11/2016
Refused-3/02/17
AR-15/02/17
AR Refused-15/03/17- all documents apart from the passport returned.
Job created - 2 jobs of 125 hrs each from JUNE TO NOV 2016, ANOTHER 2 OF 140 HRS EACH FROM JUNE TO NOV 2016. (All 4 jobs are still ongoing, initial leave expired 2/12/2016)
My AR came back today but the refusal was upheld. My employment hours was calculated as 3060 hours, 60 hours short of the required 3120 hours.All other points awarded. My lawyer advised that i should add the payslip and RTI submissions for December to February. (This would make a total of 9 months for 4 workers.) and maintenance fund. He said there is no need to represent evidence for the points initially awarded. please advise because i have to get it right this time.

[zimba]

This shows that HO will calculate the hours on a WEEKLY basis and what I have been saying is CORRECT. They assumed only 25 weeks for job 3 & 4 and that is how they end up with 3060 hours. You need to send:

- A new CAR
- All the payslips and FPS covering the remaining months to date
- Maintenance for the last 90 days

[KNY]

This shows that HO will calculate the hours on a WEEKLY basis and what I have been saying is CORRECT. They assumed only 25 weeks for job 3 & 4 and that is how they end up with 3060 hours. You need to send:

- A new CAR
- All the payslips and FPS covering the remaining months to date
- Maintenance for the last 90 days

Thanks Zimba,

I should do the above and write a cover letter showing that other points have been granted right?

[tier1in2014]

Agree with Zimba HO office are calculating by weeks . You had total 724 days jobs which is 724/7 =103.42 which is only short by .57 weeks . Not sure why they came up with number 3060 hrs where I think you were just short by 17.14 hrs .

[KNY]

This shows that HO will calculate the hours on a WEEKLY basis and what I have been saying is CORRECT. They assumed only 25 weeks for job 3 & 4 and that is how they end up with 3060 hours. You need to send:

- A new CAR
- All the payslips and FPS covering the remaining months to date
- Maintenance for the last 90 days

Thanks Zimba,

You were absolutely correct. Please i want to be doubly sure because i got to get it right this time by God's grace.
Do you advise i write a cover letter showing the remaining points had been awarded in the previous application? Meaning i do not have to resubmit the business bank account, accountants letter, proof of English, etc-Note that in this instance, all my documents were returned except the passport.
Contributions from people that have gone through similar route will be highly appreciated.

[KNY]

Agree with Zimba HO office are calculating by weeks . You had total 724 days jobs which is 724/7 =103.42 which is only short by .57 weeks . Not sure why they came up with number 3060 hrs where I think you were just short by 17.14 hrs .

Apparently this might be a learning curve for many others. I would have been fine if all of my employees were working 130 ours per month each instead of the 125 hrs for 2 and 140 hrs for another 2. A month is capped at 130 hrs, so i lost 20 hours per month for 6 months on 2 employees while the other 2 were short by 60 hours - its sad but my solace is in the fact that it can be rectified via a new application.

[zimba]

Do you advise i write a cover letter showing the remaining points had been awarded in the previous application? Meaning i do not have to resubmit the business bank account, accountants letter, proof of English, etc-Note that in this instance, all my documents were returned except the passport.

You MUST apply for a fresh application with ALL your supporting documents. It is irrelevant you were given points in previous failed application.
Obviously for your passport, you mention on the form that it is with home office.

[KNY]

Thanks

[FOCUS]

Hi Zimba and KNY,

As following the post throught out , I came to know that KNY ur visa has expired in Dec 2016, but for your new application you are going to submit the pay slips from dec to till date , which are actually after your visa got expired,and u r Covered by 3C. so will that be okay. I mean can we submit the pay slips after our visa expired and will those be considered as valid?

[zimba]

Hi Zimba and KNY,

As following the post throught out , I came to know that KNY ur visa has expired in Dec 2016, but for your new application you are going to submit the pay slips from dec to till date , which are actually after your visa got expired,and u r Covered by 3C. so will that be okay. I mean can we submit the pay slips after our visa expired and will those be considered as valid?

Technically the jobs must have been created during your last grant of leave. Home office might accept time spent on section 3C towards employment too.
In the OP's case, he has no choice anyway

[gt23]

Hi Zimba

I am also worried about my employees total hours of 3120.

First employee 1 may 2015 to 15 may 2016

Second employee 2 jan 2016 to 31 december 2016

Both employees were working over 30 hours a week.

Is it sufficient for 3120 hours? How does HO calculate it?

Thanks

[zimba]

If you go through the posts in this thread you find out

[tier1in2014]

Hi Zimba

I am also worried about my employees total hours of 3120.

First employee 1 may 2015 to 15 may 2016

Second employee 2 jan 2016 to 31 december 2016

Both employees were working over 30 hours a week.

Is it sufficient for 3120 hours? How does HO calculate it?

Thanks

Check your total number of days here at https://www.timeanddate.com/date/duration.html .
Total days / 7 = weeks of job (104 weeks min required to claim points )

[KNY]

Hi Zimba and KNY,

As following the post throught out , I came to know that KNY ur visa has expired in Dec 2016, but for your new application you are going to submit the pay slips from dec to till date , which are actually after your visa got expired,and u r Covered by 3C. so will that be okay. I mean can we submit the pay slips after our visa expired and will those be considered as valid?

Technically the jobs must have been created during your last grant of leave. Home office might accept time spent on section 3C towards employment too.
In the OP's case, he has no choice anyway

Although i am yet to see one through my search on this platform, i have heard of instances where additional investment was made after section 3C was triggered. My solicitor also said he has treated similar cases successfully before. I am however taking what i hear on this platform more serious as this is my personal responsibility, i got to make sure i am doing the right thing.