Appied thru NCS and letter for original docs

[n8net]

Hi,

I applied for BC via NCS back in Feb 2017. Today I hv received a letter asking me to send ALL original documents and the letter fails to mention what these docs are..

a) is this normal ? why am I being asked for this when I have used NCS ?

b) what docs am I meant to send ? At the time of application, NCS officer mentiond I needed degree ceritifcate, but I overruled him saying "If u hv applied for settlement after Oct 2014", you do not have to prove english language req."..does this mean I hv to send mu original degree cerificate as well ?

any1 else received this letter ?

thanks

[n8net]

it just says "submit ALL the following original docs" and underneath it says
Please submit your original documents.


does this mean I need to send ALL docs,
passport
Bio card
LIFE in the UK
Degree ceritifcate ?

[Casa]

It would seem that the HO are asking to see the only original document which wasn't submitted at your NCS appointment...i.e proof of your degree.

I see from your previous posts that the NCS advised that this was needed and asked if you wanted to proceed without it. In order not to lose the appointment you chose to go ahead and submit the application.

Note in your previous thread 'Incompetent NSC and English Language:
"he then called HO, and they even did not have any record of my English req. although I have got ILR bu NOT sending it (as I hv sent with my Tier 1 application previously..) I am not even sure where the original certificate and whether HO actually sent it back to me..the NCS guys said I may be asked to sit the for an English exam...and my application might be delayed..the last thing I want to happen."

Also CR001 advised:
"No, but HO can and often do request proof of English even for those who applied for ILR after 28 October 2013. Citizenship requirements and laws are separate and different to PBS or ILR rules."

[n8net]

but, isn't it an immirgration rule (for Citizenship) that it is not required if your have obtained ILR after October 2014 ?

and how can the letter fail to mention explicitly what is required ? I tried to call them and was adviced that sending a post asking what info to be sent is more quicker that sending email.

I am tempted to send ALL the docs to avoid any delays, so that they do not have to askme which puts the whole NCS thing a simple waste of money and time.

I got ILR based on 5yr Tier 1 Visa and had only one passport (expired in 2016) and imigration history straightforward (no apepals, always in time, no rejection etc, barely been out of UK, same employer for 5 years with continuous employment etc). In this context, can some one confirm the docs I need to send
1) passport
2) Bio card
3) LIFE inthe UK
4) degree certificate

anything else ?

[secret.simon]

Firstly, just confirming that this is an issue affecting you and that you are not asking it for somebody else.

Secondly, immigration rules do not affect citizenship, which has different rules and different laws. Immigration ends at ILR/PR. Citizenship is a separate and unconnected process. You may need to resubmit the proof again.

1) passport
2) Bio card
3) LIFE inthe UK
4) degree certificate

To this list, I would also add P60s for the five years (as you were in the UK on a PBS path, to show that you have lived in conformity with the terms of your visa through your residence in the UK) and a letter/Excel spreadsheet that tabulates your absences from the UK for the past five years. Make it easier for them to process your application.

Do you have a NARIC letter certifying your degree being comparable to an UK degree? If not, you may also face further issues.

[n8net]

thanks Simon.. this is for me...not anyone else.

why do they need to see these docs again ? it is an unnecessary bureaucratic delay nad failure to mention the docs is simple unacceptable.

can u clairify on the rule for proving english languagare regarding ILR obtained after Oct 2013 pls ?

I have a UK-taught Master's degree which I am unable to find the original doc (it was 10 yrs ago)..what can i do in that case ? I probably can get all other info.

is P60 something I can get from employer ? or HMRC ?

[Chinho2k]

thanks Simon.. this is for me...not anyone else.

why do they need to see these docs again ? it is an unnecessary bureaucratic delay nad failure to mention the docs is simple unacceptable.

can u clairify on the rule for proving english languagare regarding ILR obtained after Oct 2013 pls ?

I have a UK-taught Master's degree which I am unable to find the original doc (it was 10 yrs ago)..what can i do in that case ? I probably can get all other info.

is P60 something I can get from employer ? or HMRC ?

1) Bureaucratic or not, the longer you delay sending the documents the longer you'll have to wait.

2) Speak to the university and ask for a replacement or transcript and cover letter.

3) You would have got your P60's from your employer and if you've lost them and you ask your payroll department politely they will give you replacement ones.

[RRSB2012]

Hi n8net,

right now the best option for you is to provide them the original certificate with NARIC letters if you have them. Else go through an English test and give them the test certificate. No point in arguing really.

As far as the option asking if you got ILR after Oct 2013. Till I know that is to determine HOW you will prove your English (this is what my lawyer told me).
If you got ILR after 2013, then you have to prove English via NARIC+Degree or B1 English speaking test. So better send it to them to prevent yourself any delays, that what I would say, unless you have reasons not to send.

Hope this is helpful.
Thanks
R

[n8net]

Ithanks for the replies all. can provide the degree certificate.

but, just need to find it which I do not want to do as it should not be needed as far as I am aware..
but, think I will hv to provide it..but it is disappointing to see in-apt case workers who has even failed to mention explictly what docs he wants..

I am thinking of a sending a strongly worded letter as it does not sit properly with me along with the docs and demand an explanation for his actions ?

any chance of financial compensation for this mistake ?

[CR001]

I am thinking of a sending a strongly worded letter as it does not sit properly with me along with the docs and demand an explanation for his actions ?

any chance of financial compensation for this mistake ?

Sure, great idea to DEMAND an explanation from HO, when they have every right to ask for original documents, when you are asking them to please approve your citizenship application which is at THEIR discretion.

Oh please, financial compensation for what? They have a right to ask for original documents. You are not the first to be asked to send them and certainly won't be the last.

[n8net]

nice..but how can they fail to apply the rules properly and fail to list the docs needed.

I am not going to leave this go unnoticed..even if it means being denied BC..I simply cannot stand this...had to do something and make sure the case worked understands his mistake..

he can deny my BC at his own peril..

[Chinho2k]

nice..but how can they fail to apply the rules properly and fail to list the docs needed.

I am not going to leave this go unnoticed..even if it means being denied BC..I simply cannot stand this...had to do something and make sure the case worked understands his mistake..

he can deny my BC at his own peril..

It doesn't sound like you're here to get help....let us know when your demands for an explanation and compensation are met ....not going to hold my breath buddy!!

[n8net]

hey..I am here to get help and help others..

in this case, I wud like to know how i can get explanation and compensation by tapping into anyone who has done something similar before..

[Tea_Rocket]

in this case, I wud like to know how i can get explanation and compensation by tapping into anyone who has done something similar before..

What do you need an explanation for? You yourself admitted that you didn't show all the documents that were asked for at your NCS appointment:

At the time of application, NCS officer mentiond I needed degree ceritifcate, but I overruled him saying "If u hv applied for settlement after Oct 2014", you do not have to prove english language req."..does this mean I hv to send mu original degree cerificate as well ?

I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that you're exempt from proving your knowledge of English. The relevant gov.uk page doesn't say anything about people with settlement after October 2014 (or 2013) being exempt. The Form AN guide says on pages 13-14 (bolding mine)

You will need to provide both:

• Letter confirming success in the Life in the UK Test, stamped and signed by the Test Supervisor; and either
• a Home Office approved qualification in English at B1 CEFR or higher, from the Secure English Language Test list. You must ensure that you state the test number at section 1.23 of the form);

or

• confirmation that you met the English language requirement, on or after 28th October 2013, in order to obtain settlement

or

• Your original degree certificate and one of the following:
  • An Academic Qualification Level statement (AQUALS) and English Language Proficiency Statement (ELPS) from UK NARIC (these will show us that UK NARIC are content that your qualification is equivalent to a UK degree and was taught in English).
  • An original and official certificate from your university confirming the degree was taught or researched in a majority English-speaking country (except Canada), plus an Academic Qualification Level statement (AQUALS) from UK NARIC confirming that your qualification is comparable to a UK degree OR
• Your passport showing that you are a national of a majority English speaking country

It sounds to me like you have misunderstood the requirement I've put in bold as meaning that you are exempt from providing proof of your English language abilities, but it actually means the opposite. Given that you "overruled" your NCS caseworker and did not send a copy of one of the required documents despite being asked for it (by him), I'm not surprised you've been asked to send originals of absolutely everything; the person handling your application at the UKVI probably wants to make sure there are no other irregularities. This wasn't your caseworker's fault, it was yours.

[Casa]

Maybe the NCS weren't as 'incompetent' in the advice given after all.

[n8net]

Hiya Tea Rocket,

thanks for the reply. so, how do I "confirm I proved my english language for settlement after Oct 2013" ? what docs can I send ? in this case the degree will not be needed ?

I was confused coz, in the form itself there was an option to tick the above which gave me the impression degree will not be needed.

I am not crossed abt them asking more info..it is just that they hv failed to provide which doc...I hv been going thru my files an I cannot see my original LIFE In THE UK test ? only what seems to be a photo copy given by the NCS. is this needed ? can they not cross check it with database given the test case id ? (also I used it for ILR )

thanks

[Tea_Rocket]

so, how do I "confirm I proved my english language for settlement after Oct 2013" ? what docs can I send ? in this case the degree will not be needed ?

I was confused coz, in the form itself there was an option to tick the above which gave me the impression degree will not be needed.

You use one of the other documents listed. I suspect the "confirmation that you met the English language requirement, on or after 28th October 2013, in order to obtain settlement" is there as a catch-all for anyone who doesn't have the other documents listed, but managed to prove to the Home Office that they had the necessary English language abilities for settlement through some other means. If you previously used your UK degree as evidence of your English language skills, then you should use it again. If you can't find it, you should get a letter from your university confirming the dates that you were a student, that you passed the course, and that it was taught in English.

I am not crossed abt them asking more info..it is just that they hv failed to provide which doc...I hv been going thru my files an I cannot see my original LIFE In THE UK test ? only what seems to be a photo copy given by the NCS. is this needed ? can they not cross check it with database given the test case id ? (also I used it for ILR )

Your original LIfe in the UK test pass letter should have been sent with your application, since you applied through the NCS. At the NCS appointment I attended, that was the only original document that I didn't receive back because they sent it on, and I believe this is standard. So you're probably safe not sending that as well (though I suppose it can't hurt to send a copy of the copy with a note saying that they should already have the original).

As for what other documents, I take this

it just says "submit ALL the following original docs" and underneath it says
Please submit your original documents.

to mean that you should send all the supporting documents relevant to your application that you have. They almost certainly want proof of your English language skills, but in addition to that, I think you should send in your passport(s), biometric residence permit, and any other supporting documents, just to be safe.

I realise that this negates the advantages of applying through an NCS, but that's a direct consequence of your decision to ignore the advice your caseworker gave you and submit an application with incomplete supporting information.

[n8net]

thanks again Tea Rocket.

I genuinely thought the NCS officer is misinformed as I was convinced from the form and the this forum it is not going to be needed..but I will send it..

but wish the case worker wud hv been explicit about it..that's what I will be complaining about.

[Tea_Rocket]

You're welcome. Good luck with your naturalisation application.

I can't say I agree with your decision to complain about the NCS service you received. If your caseworker had sent your application without saying anything about the missing evidence of English skills, or if you had included your degree certificate and he hadn't sent it on, then you'd have a legitimate cause for complaint, but it sounds to me like he was in a no-win situation. What could he have done, aside from magically producing your degree certificate himself and sending along with the rest of your documents, in order to avoid being complained about? If he had refused to send your application because it was incomplete, you would have also complained, and anyway, I bet it's against NCS rules to refuse to send an application if the applicant insists on having it sent.

You admit you thought he was misinformed about the rules and you also said in a different thread (bolding mine):

he then called HO, and they even did not have any record of my English req. although I have got ILR bu NOT sending it (as I hv sent with my Tier 1 application previously..) I am not even sure where the original certificate and whether HO actually sent it back to me..the NCS guys said I may be asked to sit the for an English exam...and my application might be delayed..the last thing I want to happen.

How much more explicit could he have been? He may not have correctly predicted the Home Office's request for original documents (because NCS people have no way of knowing what happens to your application once it's sent), but by your own admission, he did warn you that the Home Office might ask you to prove your English language ability before approving your application and that it might cause delays.

It's a shame that people on this forum didn't correct your misunderstanding of the rules before you applied, but that's the risk of this place. You might get good advice, you might get no advice, and you might get terrible advice. But I don't see how any of this is the fault of your NCS caseworker and I honestly do not think you're entitled to compensation from them.

[n8net]

update: got a letter stating my application has been approved and my docs back... Thanks a lot guys.

it also said, I will shortly receive another letter inviting me to ceremony. Is this normal ?

should I wait for this doc or contact council to arrange ceremony ?

also,still i am not sure if English language proof is needed for applicants who have proved it for settlement after Oct 2014...just curious to know a definite yes or no answer ?

thanks

[Zhonor]

Congratulations ... can you please update your timeline