EEA family permit - what now?

[aaron_gill]

Hi all.

I am 20 years old. 21 in October 2017. I am living in the UK since august 2014 so exactly 3 years now. I came to the UK with my mother and younger brother. he is now 14. my mother was and is still married to my father who is an irish citizen. he is originally from india same as myself, brother and mother.

3 of us came to the UK on an EEA family permit and came to live with my father in his house. my father is working, mother is working and I am working too. my brother is at school.

I don't know what the next step should be. we all wish to stay in the UK together.

I think that after 5 years ( in 2 years time) my mother and brother can apply for indefinite leave to remain or permanent residence.

but what happens to me? I will be over 21, what options are available to me?

I have worked since I arrived and stayed with my father. I will continue to stay with my father and mother and brother and I will continue to work.

I don't understand why things are different for me because I am over 21.

am I now an "extended" family member?

am I dependant on my father/do I need to be dependant on my father to stay here?

would I have a better chance of staying here if I stopped working?

im really confused, please help

Thanks

[aaron_gill]

any advice would be greatly appreciated
thanks

[Obie]

After age 21, you need to demonstrate that you are dependant on your father. Or you will cease to qualify.

[Richard W]

There is the alternative view that the OP will become an extended family member by virtue of having been dependent on his father while in India and then will remain such by remaining a member of his household. For the acceptability of the second bit, see e.g. the report on the judge's comments in the post non EEA (PR) EFM appeal SALA problem - what to do. Thus, rather than being a family member by virtue of Regulation 7(b)(ii), the OP could be a family member by virtue of Regulation 7(3) and Regulation 8(2). (The text of Regulation 8(2) appears to be grammatically wrong - it appears to require that the EFM simultaneously be abroad and be a member of the sponsor's household.)

I do not know if this argument has been tested in the courts.

For this argument to work, the OP must hold a residence card.

[aaron_gill]

After age 21, you need to demonstrate that you are dependant on your father. Or you will cease to qualify.

Thanks for your reply. could anyone explain the reasoning behind this rule? just out of interest.

are the government trying to reduce immigration by splitting up families?

since i came here as an 18 year old then clearly I would be over 21 after the 5 year period.

If i have done well and bought my own house and have a good job then im not dependent on my father so I would have to leave.
BUT
If I have been lazy, not got a good job and stay with my parents then the UK govt is happier to keep me here?
what is the thinking behind this?

[aaron_gill]

There is the alternative view that the OP will become an extended family member by virtue of having been dependent on his father while in India and then will remain such by remaining a member of his household. For the acceptability of the second bit, see e.g. the report on the judge's comments in the post non EEA (PR) EFM appeal SALA problem - what to do. Thus, rather than being a family member by virtue of Regulation 7(b)(ii), the OP could be a family member by virtue of Regulation 7(3) and Regulation 8(2). (The text of Regulation 8(2) appears to be grammatically wrong - it appears to require that the EFM simultaneously be abroad and be a member of the sponsor's household.)

I do not know if this argument has been tested in the courts.

For this argument to work, the OP must hold a residence card.

thanks for your reply, what is a residence card? is that the EEA2 application?
I havent applied for this as i read that it was just a confirmation of rights and not giving any extra rights
should I apply for this? i will be 20 before application but 21 when the application is decided - is that allowed?

thanks

[Richard W]

thanks for your reply, what is a residence card? is that the EEA2 application?
I haven't applied for this as i read that it was just a confirmation of rights and not giving any extra rights
should I apply for this? i will be 20 before application but 21 when the application is decided - is that allowed?

Yes, it's the item obtained by an EEA2 application.

Applying for the residence card is the only lawful way forward I can see. Now, an argument along the lines of Surinder Singh might work in court, but as you had turned 16 before you entered the EEA, it might not.

Who are you working for? A check should have been made that you were allowed to work. What documents did you supply for this check?

[aaron_gill]

I am working for a local company. checks were carried out on my family permit and this showed that i was here legally and could work.

regarding the EEA2 form and the age of 21:

if i apply before 21 will it be granted even though i will be over 21 by the time it is processed?

can i be dependant on my father if i am in paid work but still living with him?
or must i be unemployed? to be dependant on him?

I spoke with an immigration "advisor" who works for a immigration law firm. he said that all 3 of us had to have the residence card to live/work/study here. I told him this was not the case and showed him the government website relating to residence cards. then he made up some excuses and said he couldnt help me.

I just cant understand why the system cannot be simpler to understand.

thanks

[aaron_gill]

Ok so i just phoned the home office and got some very interesting information, this is what they say:

residence card is not required as we do have the right to work BUT the residence card would prove to the employer that we are entitled to work.

as we are living here for 3 years already, applying for the RC would be less useful but is still an option

the age of 21 makes no difference to me as in any case it is my father who will be applying as our sponsor for permanent residence after the 5 year period ( 2 years for now )

the age of 21 is not relevant to the residence card or the permanent residence

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is the information they gave me and on the whole it seems to be good news

any thoughts?

[Richard W]

After age 21, you need to demonstrate that you are dependant on your father. Or you will cease to qualify.

Thanks for your reply. could anyone explain the reasoning behind this rule? just out of interest.

are the government trying to reduce immigration by splitting up families?

since i came here as an 18 year old then clearly I would be over 21 after the 5 year period.

If i have done well and bought my own house and have a good job then im not dependent on my father so I would have to leave.
BUT
If I have been lazy, not got a good job and stay with my parents then the UK govt is happier to keep me here?
what is the thinking behind this?

Compassion. Think of handicapped children who cannot fend for themselves when they become adults.

It's not the only case of seemingly perverse rules. Under the UK Immigration Rules, when a spouse comes to the UK they can bring the children by former partners only if they have sole responsibility. Do we really want to exclude the children of responsible fathers in favour of the children of feckless fathers?

[aaron_gill]

i full support looking after disable people and letting them stay here to be looked after by their parents. It just seems strange to me that if i am dependent on my father then i will be allowed to stay. but if i had a really good job or started a successful business and employed people then i would not be allowed to stay.

[aaron_gill]

can anyone tell me if 3 people apply for a residence card through form eea2 and it is decided by home office that 1 of those 3 people is refused, then will the other 2 still get their cards or is it 1 fail = all fail?

thanks

[Richard W]

Unfortunately, Home Office help lines are not to be trusted.

Ok so i just phoned the home office and got some very interesting information, this is what they say:

residence card is not required as we do have the right to work BUT the residence card would prove to the employer that we are entitled to work.

as we are living here for 3 years already, applying for the RC would be less useful but is still an option

All this is perfectly true - so long as no-one is merely an extended family member, in which case the right to be treated as a family member depends on having a valid (e.g. unexpired) family permit, residence card or residence certificate.

the age of 21 makes no difference to me as in any case it is my father who will be applying as our sponsor for permanent residence after the 5 year period ( 2 years for now )

I think the advisor was confused with the processes under UK Immigration Rules. In particular, as you have already noticed, your father will be able to successfully apply for permanent residence before your mother and younger brother. Also, a DCPR would only be relevant to him if there were any inquiry into where he entered the UK (and British Islands) from. (His rights are slightly greater if he last entered from Ireland rather than from somewhere else.) It used to be quite common for a non-EEA family member to apply for a PRC but the EEA sponsor not to apply at all.

the age of 21 is not relevant to the residence card or the permanent residence

That's not what the HO operational guidance on direct family members of EEA nationals currently says for "Qualifying conditions: stage 4", on pp10-12.

[aaron_gill]

thanks for your reply.
can you tell me if one person is not eligible will the other people on the application be refused as well?

also if the application is made before i am 21 is that ok? or is it judged on the day that they approve it or refuse it?