EEA family visa given then denied

[lesley701]

I am so confused.
I am British living in Ireland married to an American citizen. He was relocated here with his job from America and has been here nearly a year and a half on a work permit. We have 2 children who hold dual nationality as they were born in the States. I applied for british passports for both of them as soon as we arrived here in Ireland.
About 6 months ago my husband was considering transfering over to the UK with his job and so we applied for the EEA family visa which was approved and placed in his passport.
The transfer took a while and finaly came through just as my husbands EEA family visa expired. Contacted the embassy and was told just to reaply there would be no problem. Passports returned visa denied. The reason given was that I could not show that I could support our family by myself???? I am a stay at home Mom, my husband has worked and supported us for over 16 yrs and never asked for anything, his new position, (with the same company hes been with for the last 5 years), is a promotion with a 12 percent pay increase plus lots of percs. I was told to reaply and state our situation. Any ideas anyone?

[thsths]

Passports returned visa denied. The reason given was that I could not show that I could support our family by myself?

Did you mention that he has an offer for the transfer, and did you include proof? With that, there should be no doubt of sufficient means.

Tom

[lesley701]

Did you mention that he has an offer for the transfer, and did you include proof? With that, there should be no doubt of sufficient means.

Yes, his new offer on their letter head was submitted.

[thsths]

Yes, his new offer on their letter head was submitted.

That is strange indeed. It seems like they did not notice that. You can ask for reconsideration, you can apply again, or you can appeal. The choice is yours, but I think you can only one of these at a time.

I think your best bet is to write to the European Commission, because this is a breach of community law. You can start by contacting SOLVIT at http://ec.europa.eu/solvit/site/about/index_en.htm, and then escalate the complaint if the problem does not get worked out.

Tom

[lesley701]

Yes, his new offer on their letter head was submitted.

That is strange indeed. It seems like they did not notice that. You can ask for reconsideration, you can apply again, or you can appeal. The choice is yours, but I think you can only one of these at a time.

I think your best bet is to write to the European Commission, because this is a breach of community law. You can start by contacting SOLVIT at http://ec.europa.eu/solvit/site/about/index_en.htm, and then escalate the complaint if the problem does not get worked out.

Tom

Thank you for your insight, we sent in another application yesterday and he submits it in person on Tuesday pm, his new position starts on Monday 17th March so time is of the essence, I too thought that because I am British there would be no problems.
I will let you know how it goes. Once again thank you.

[thsths]

Thank you for your insight, we sent in another application yesterday and he submits it in person on Tuesday pm, his new position starts on Monday 17th March so time is of the essence, I too thought that because I am British there would be no problems.

SOLVIT can act very quickly, so it may be worth contacting them if you have problems again. Unfortunately, being a BC does not help you, because the UK offer a lot less right in the national legislation than the EU does. You are lucky that you can use the EU law at all.

If you do not get the visa, you may also decide to travel without one. You should bring all the necessary documents and know your right if you do that, because it is not always easy (but perfectly legal). At least in the case of Ireland, there is the chance that you may not be checked at all.

Tom

[lesley701]

Thank you for your insight, we sent in another application yesterday and he submits it in person on Tuesday pm, his new position starts on Monday 17th March so time is of the essence, I too thought that because I am British there would be no problems.

SOLVIT can act very quickly, so it may be worth contacting them if you have problems again. Unfortunately, being a BC does not help you, because the UK offer a lot less right in the national legislation than the EU does. You are lucky that you can use the EU law at all.

If you do not get the visa, you may also decide to travel without one. You should bring all the necessary documents and know your right if you do that, because it is not always easy (but perfectly legal). At least in the case of Ireland, there is the chance that you may not be checked at all.

Tom

this is true as last week when we went to the uk to locate a house we were not checked and his visa at that time had expired.
but will he be able to work?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Have you, the UK citizen, been working in Ireland and if so when? If you have been "exercising treaty rights" while in Ireland, then you can use EU law for your return to the UK.

[JAJ]

I am so confused.
I am British living in Ireland married to an American citizen. He was relocated here with his job from America and has been here nearly a year and a half on a work permit. We have 2 children who hold dual nationality as they were born in the States. I applied for british passports for both of them as soon as we arrived here in Ireland.
About 6 months ago my husband was considering transfering over to the UK with his job and so we applied for the EEA family visa which was approved and placed in his passport.
The transfer took a while and finaly came through just as my husbands EEA family visa expired. Contacted the embassy and was told just to reaply there would be no problem. Passports returned visa denied. The reason given was that I could not show that I could support our family by myself???? I am a stay at home Mom, my husband has worked and supported us for over 16 yrs and never asked for anything, his new position, (with the same company hes been with for the last 5 years), is a promotion with a 12 percent pay increase plus lots of percs. I was told to reaply and state our situation. Any ideas anyone?

Firstly, why on earth are you scrabbling around on your own trying to sort out visas? Why is the company not paying for an immigration lawyer??

Secondly, why is your focus on the EEA family permit? Are aware that it will take a lot longer for your husband to get his permanent residence and British citizenship that way?

Thirdly, did you get your children British consular birth certificates before leaving the United States?

[lesley701]

I am so confused.
I am British living in Ireland married to an American citizen. He was relocated here with his job from America and has been here nearly a year and a half on a work permit. We have 2 children who hold dual nationality as they were born in the States. I applied for british passports for both of them as soon as we arrived here in Ireland.
About 6 months ago my husband was considering transfering over to the UK with his job and so we applied for the EEA family visa which was approved and placed in his passport.
The transfer took a while and finaly came through just as my husbands EEA family visa expired. Contacted the embassy and was told just to reaply there would be no problem. Passports returned visa denied. The reason given was that I could not show that I could support our family by myself???? I am a stay at home Mom, my husband has worked and supported us for over 16 yrs and never asked for anything, his new position, (with the same company hes been with for the last 5 years), is a promotion with a 12 percent pay increase plus lots of percs. I was told to reaply and state our situation. Any ideas anyone?

Firstly, why on earth are you scrabbling around on your own trying to sort out visas? Why is the company not paying for an immigration lawyer??

Secondly, why is your focus on the EEA family permit? Are aware that it will take a lot longer for your husband to get his permanent residence and British citizenship that way?

Thirdly, did you get your children British consular birth certificates before leaving the United States?

Firstly, the companys offer was that he sorted out his own visa as they had already relocated him from the USA and that being married to me should use the family visa.

Secondly, was advised by the British Embassy in Dublin that the quickest and easiest way was the EEA family permit, which, as I said was granted the first time around.

Thirdly, why do I need birth certificates for my children as this as not been an issue???????

[lesley701]

Have you, the UK citizen, been working in Ireland and if so when? If you have been "exercising treaty rights" while in Ireland, then you can use EU law for your return to the UK.

Thank you for your reply.
If I do this then I also have to show that I can support my family by myself which I can not as stated before.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Have you, the UK citizen, been working in Ireland and if so when? If you have been "exercising treaty rights" while in Ireland, then you can use EU law for your return to the UK.

Thank you for your reply.
If I do this then I also have to show that I can support my family by myself which I can not as stated before.

I think you are mistaken. Under EU law there is no requirement that you be able to support your family. (Under UK law you will need to prove you have sufficient resources).

Again, have you been working in Ireland? Could be part time, but it has to be somewhat recently.

[Ben]

I think you are mistaken. Under EU law there is no requirement that you be able to support your family. (Under UK law you will need to prove you have sufficient resources).

I disagree. In accordance with Directive/2004/38/EC, if the EU citizen is not economically active and wishes to reside for a period longer than three months, they must be able to provide evidence that they "have sufficient resources for themselves and their family members not to become a burden on the social assistance system of the host Member State during their period of residence..". However, this has been evidenced by the job offer of the EU citizen's spouse.

Again, have you been working in Ireland? Could be part time, but it has to be somewhat recently.

I can't see that it matters. In this case, the EU citizen has been exercising Treaty rights in Ireland as she is self-sufficient. She has been able to reside in Ireland without becoming a burden on the social assistance system. Therefore, having exercised Treaty rights in another Member State, she is able to return to her EU country of citizenship, with her family members, in accordance with the Surinder Singh ruling.

I would agree that, in your case, it would be easier to move to the UK using EU legislation as opposed to UK national law. My advice is to appeal the decision to refuse the EEA Family Permit for your husband, on the basis that you have been exercising Treaty rights in Ireland and intend to continue doing so in the UK.

[JAJ]

Firstly, the companys offer was that he sorted out his own visa as they had already relocated him from the USA and that being married to me should use the family visa.

Secondly, was advised by the British Embassy in Dublin that the quickest and easiest way was the EEA family permit, which, as I said was granted the first time around.

Thirdly, why do I need birth certificates for my children as this as not been an issue???????

1. Bad practice on the part of the company. Family visas are not as easy as they may think and they should have provided legal assistance.

2. Do you mean you actually got advice from the Embassy? (one of the worst things you can do). Once again, if he takes the EEA route he will wait a lot longer for British citizenship.

3. In order that your child can easily prove her British citizenship in future. Right now, if her British passport is ever lost, it will be difficult to replace in a hurry because she will have to prove everything again from scratch. A consular birth certificate creates a permanent record on the GRO systems.

[Ben]

Once again, if he takes the EEA route he will wait a lot longer for British citizenship.

Correct. However, it will be more difficult (and costly) to use UK national law over EU legislation. Remember, the British citizen OP is "a stay at home Mom".

[SYH]

I am so confused.
I am British living in Ireland married to an American citizen. He was relocated here with his job from America and has been here nearly a year and a half on a work permit. We have 2 children who hold dual nationality as they were born in the States. I applied for british passports for both of them as soon as we arrived here in Ireland.
About 6 months ago my husband was considering transfering over to the UK with his job and so we applied for the EEA family visa which was approved and placed in his passport.
The transfer took a while and finaly came through just as my husbands EEA family visa expired. Contacted the embassy and was told just to reaply there would be no problem. Passports returned visa denied. The reason given was that I could not show that I could support our family by myself???? I am a stay at home Mom, my husband has worked and supported us for over 16 yrs and never asked for anything, his new position, (with the same company hes been with for the last 5 years), is a promotion with a 12 percent pay increase plus lots of percs. I was told to reaply and state our situation. Any ideas anyone?

Why cant you reapply for the EEA permit in IREland since they dont seem to have a problem issuing it in the first place

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I think you are mistaken. Under EU law there is no requirement that you be able to support your family. (Under UK law you will need to prove you have sufficient resources).

I disagree. In accordance with Directive/2004/38/EC, if the EU citizen is not economically active and wishes to reside for a period longer than three months, they must be able to provide evidence that they "have sufficient resources for themselves and their family members not to become a burden on the social assistance system of the host Member State during their period of residence..". However, this has been evidenced by the job offer of the EU citizen's spouse.

Sorry benfa, but you missed the very important "or" in the Directive

Right of residence for more than three months
1. All Union citizens shall have the right of residence on the
territory of another Member State for a period of longer than
three months if they:
(a) are workers or self-employed persons in the host Member
State; or
(b) have sufficient resources for themselves and their family
members not to become a burden on the social assistance
system of the host Member State during their period of
residence and have comprehensive sickness insurance cover
in the host Member State; or ...

There is no resource test if you are working.

Lets put that aside though. In this case the EEA family permit was apprently rejected on the basis of insufficient resources. The Directive says

4. Member States may not lay down a fixed amount which they regard as ‘sufficient resources’, but they must take into account the personal situation of the person concerned. In all cases this amount shall not be higher than the threshold below which nationals of the host Member State become eligible for social assistance, or, where this criterion is not applicable, higher than the minimum social security pension paid by the
host Member State.

Note that the resources can come from anywhere - from the EU citizen, from their spouse, from investments or from the rich uncle we all wish had.

Did the embassy provide an indication in the rejection letter of how much resources would be required?

I would apply again for the family permit. I would explicity say how much money you have as investments, how much you will be earning every month from your husband. You should also indicate that under EU law you are aware that the source of the funds does not matter.

Rereading this thread, it is not clear if the UK citizen has worked in Ireland or not. If so it is even easier and no specific resources are required.

[Ben]

Sorry benfa, but you missed the very important "or" in the Directive

Right of residence for more than three months
1. All Union citizens shall have the right of residence on the
territory of another Member State for a period of longer than
three months if they:
(a) are workers or self-employed persons in the host Member
State; or
(b) have sufficient resources for themselves and their family
members not to become a burden on the social assistance
system of the host Member State during their period of
residence and have comprehensive sickness insurance cover
in the host Member State; or ...

There is no resource test if you are working.

Yes, but the OP British citizen is not working. She is a housewife (excuse the expression). She is self-sufficient in Ireland. Since her needs and the needs of her family are meet without having to become a burden on the social assistance system, she is currently exercising Treaty rights in her residence in Ireland.

Since the Treaty right being exercised is self-sufficiency, the OP needs to provide evidence that she has not been relient on the social assistance system in Ireland, and will not when in the UK. The husband's employment in Ireland and job offer in the UK is, as far as I can see, as clear evidence as is necessary.

[lesley701]

[quote="benifa"][quote="Directive/2004/38/EC"]Sorry benfa, but you missed the very important "[b]or[/b]" in the Directive
[quote]Right of residence for more than three months
1. All Union citizens shall have the right of residence on the
territory of another Member State for a period of longer than
three months if they:
(a) are workers or self-employed persons in the host Member
State; [b]or[/b]
(b) have sufficient resources for themselves and their family
members not to become a burden on the social assistance
system of the host Member State during their period of
residence and have comprehensive sickness insurance cover
in the host Member State; or ...[/quote]
[b]There is no resource test if you are working[/b].[/quote]


Yes, but the OP British citizen [b]is not working[/b]. She is a housewife (excuse the expression). She is self-sufficient in Ireland. Since her needs and the needs of her family are meet without having to become a burden on the social assistance system, she is currently exercising Treaty rights in her residence in Ireland.

Since the Treaty right being exercised is self-sufficiency, the OP needs to provide evidence that she has not been relient on the social assistance system in Ireland, and will not when in the UK. The husband's employment in Ireland and job offer in the UK is, as far as I can see, as clear evidence as is necessary.[/quote]



Wow thanks everyone for your input, all of my husbands info was supplied, ie job offer working here, resident permit etc. however, he originally did list me as self sufficiant and this they replied need proof of myself having sufficiant funds to provide for my family , which I do not have.

We have reaplied for this permit and he visits the embassy tomorrow, (Tuesday 11th March), and has stated that he is the provider , which I understand is acceptable, and also that he has enclosed evidance of his continuity with Dell in the States, Ireland and now the promotion to the UK.
We aslo provided evedance of a house which we have already leased for a year and that I have a huge family living in the same area.

Also note that this was granted to him just 6 months ago so I am at a loss as to why this is such a problem now.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

For what purpose was the original EEA family permit (that has just expired) applied for? Where you earlier planning to move to the UK from Ireland?

[Ben]

Wow thanks everyone for your input, all of my husbands info was supplied, ie job offer working here, resident permit etc. however, he originally did list me as self sufficiant and this they replied need proof of myself having sufficiant funds to provide for my family , which I do not have.

We have reaplied for this permit and he visits the embassy tomorrow, (Tuesday 11th March), and has stated that he is the provider , which I understand is acceptable, and also that he has enclosed evidance of his continuity with Dell in the States, Ireland and now the promotion to the UK.
We aslo provided evedance of a house which we have already leased for a year and that I have a huge family living in the same area.

Also note that this was granted to him just 6 months ago so I am at a loss as to why this is such a problem now.

To be honest with you, it looks like an oversight by the British embassy on the day they refused your husband's EEA Family Permit.

You are correct, self-sufficiency needs to be evidenced and as Directive/2004/38/EC has said in his post, the money your husband provides you (and your family) with is as clear evidence as is required in accordance with Directive 2004/38/EC.

In accordance with Directive 2004/38/EC, you are an EU citizen exercising EU Treaty rights in another Member State on the basis of self-sufficiency, in the company of your family members. Your intention is to return to your home Member State to continue exercising EU Treaty rights, in the company of your family members, in accordance with the Surinder Singh ruling. It is an open and shut case.

Please let us know how you get on tomorrow. In the mean time, I would recommend that you and your husband familiarise yourself with Directive 2004/38/EC as much as possible. Learn it inside and out so you'll be ready to answer whatever questions they have, and challenge any decision or condition that is contrary to your rights, and the rights of your family members, in accordance with Directive 2004/38/EC.

[lesley701]

[quote="Directive/2004/38/EC"]For what purpose was the original EEA family permit (that has just expired) applied for? Where you earlier planning to move to the UK from Ireland?[/quote]


To move to UK to seek employment, should the transfer not come through.

[yankeegirl]

Since the Treaty right being exercised is self-sufficiency, the OP needs to provide evidence that she has not been relient on the social assistance system in Ireland, and will not when in the UK. The husband's employment in Ireland and job offer in the UK is, as far as I can see, as clear evidence as is necessary.

I'm confused. I thought in order to use the Singh route, the British citizen that had to be exercising an economic Treaty right, ie: working

21.4.8 Non-EEA Family Members of British Nationals (Surinder Singh cases)
A British national and his/her non-EEA family members can only benefit from free movement rights if they meet the criteria established in the ECJ case of Surinder Singh. The case stated that nationals of a Member State who are exercising an economic Treaty right (i.e as a worker or self-employed person) in another Member State will, on return to their home state, be entitled to bring their non-EEA family members to join them under EC law.

Applications for EEA family permits must meet the following criteria:

* The British citizen is residing in an EEA Member State as a worker or self-employed person or was doing so before returning to the UK.

http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/servlet/Front ... ur%20eight

Maybe I'm missing something?

[lesley701]

[quote="Directive/2004/38/EC"]For what purpose was the original EEA family permit (that has just expired) applied for? Where you earlier planning to move to the UK from Ireland?[/quote]


To move to UK to seek employment, should the transfer not come through.

[Ben]

Since the Treaty right being exercised is self-sufficiency, the OP needs to provide evidence that she has not been relient on the social assistance system in Ireland, and will not when in the UK. The husband's employment in Ireland and job offer in the UK is, as far as I can see, as clear evidence as is necessary.

I'm confused. I thought in order to use the Singh route, the British citizen that had to be exercising an economic Treaty right, ie: working

21.4.8 Non-EEA Family Members of British Nationals (Surinder Singh cases)
A British national and his/her non-EEA family members can only benefit from free movement rights if they meet the criteria established in the ECJ case of Surinder Singh. The case stated that nationals of a Member State who are exercising an economic Treaty right (i.e as a worker or self-employed person) in another Member State will, on return to their home state, be entitled to bring their non-EEA family members to join them under EC law.

Applications for EEA family permits must meet the following criteria:

* The British citizen is residing in an EEA Member State as a worker or self-employed person or was doing so before returning to the UK.

http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/servlet/Front ... ur%20eight

Maybe I'm missing something?

No yankeegirl, I think I missed something! I'm sorry. I was not aware of this condition.

Apologies lesley701, perhaps the British embassy's rejection of your husband's EEA Family Permit application is valid.

Unless, of course, you are or have been in employment?